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Jesus is the one true God?

I don't know if Shewolf intended this as a faith baiting thread, it doesn't seem so to me, but it's pretty clear that that's where this is heading. :lol:
 
X Factor said:
Not sure who you think you're fooling but it's pretty clear why you're even posting in this thread.
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If me stating my belief in a lack of god is a criticism of faith, then someone stating a belief in god is a criticism of mine. I posted an answer to a question about the nature of Jesus, you are the one who drew it out by asking why I labeled god an old dude with a beard as no one has seen god. To Which I replied with a statement of my belief as to why no one has seen him/her/it. At no point did I imply that it was wrong to believe one way or the other. So, why are you here?
 
SheWolf said:
I have seen similar threads to this one. I have seen threads asking if Christians believe Jesus is God, the son of God, or a prophet of God. I usually feel when I see those threads, there is not a clear answer on the question of Jesus being God according to the Christian faith.

Well the other day I was flipping through my channel listing and stopped on the 700 Club. A woman said, "I know Jesus is the one true God." Nobody else on the panel appeared bothered by her statement. She declared Jesus is God. That confirmed to me that Christians actually do believe that Jesus is God, and Jesus was God in the flesh on Earth.

If Christians say "Jesus is God," then that seems very clear to me. Am I wrong?
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Yes they think that, so you are accurate. As an observant Jew I think this is wrong and a kind of avodah zarah. That being said I think its probable that it is permissible for them since they think it is proper monotheism.
 
SheWolf said:
I have seen similar threads to this one. I have seen threads asking if Christians believe Jesus is God, the son of God, or a prophet of God. I usually feel when I see those threads, there is not a clear answer on the question of Jesus being God according to the Christian faith.

Well the other day I was flipping through my channel listing and stopped on the 700 Club. A woman said, "I know Jesus is the one true God." Nobody else on the panel appeared bothered by her statement. She declared Jesus is God. That confirmed to me that Christians actually do believe that Jesus is God, and Jesus was God in the flesh on Earth.

If Christians say "Jesus is God," then that seems very clear to me. Am I wrong?
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If God is Hispanic some people are in serious trouble :mrgreen:
 
ThoughtEx. said:
Don't ask me, I didn't buy it when I was 10, I don't buy it now. But it's basically one god with split personalities. The Father is the main personality, the son is the one everyone likes, and the Holy Ghost does the dirty work like killing all the first born of Egypt.
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This is a pretty disrespectful, not to mention, inaccurate "explanation". What you're intending to convey here is not exactly subtle.
 
X Factor said:
I don't know if Shewolf intended this as a faith baiting thread, it doesn't seem so to me, but it's pretty clear that that's where this is heading. :lol:
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I feel it's an honest question from someone outside the Christian faith. And an interesting one, if we are done asking pointed questions and taking offence at every statement, it's a question worth exploring further. Of course, my perspective being from outside the Christian faith as I assume the OP is from her wording, may offend some sensibilities. But hey, that's life.
 
Sherman123 said:
Yes they think that, so you are accurate. As an observant Jew I think this is wrong and a kind of avodah zarah.
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No idea what that means but I suspect it's not flattering. :lol:
 
X Factor said:
This is a pretty disrespectful, not to mention, inaccurate "explanation". What you're intending to convey here is not exactly subtle.
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Sounds like your criticizing my belief as to how I view the Trinity. AS the question was asked from a perspective outside of Christianity, I am giving one from outside of Christianity. In simple terms. If you don't like it, oh well.
 
Josie said:
When I was young, I heard it explained that it's like an egg. An egg has three parts, but it's still one egg.
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Or an apple. The peel, the meat and the core.
 
ThoughtEx. said:
I feel it's an honest question from someone outside the Christian faith. And an interesting one, if we are done asking pointed questions and taking offence at every statement, it's a question worth exploring further. Of course, my perspective being from outside the Christian faith as I assume the OP is from her wording, may offend some sensibilities. But hey, that's life.
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Ah, well I do get that you couldn't give a rat's turd what I or anyone think you're coming across. It is really a good thing that you have made me aware of your position sooner rather than later so I do appreciate that.
 
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X Factor said:
Wouldn't that actually be a trichotomy? He made some pretty specific statements so either He is who He says (said) or He is not and if He is not, then He has (had) to be either a liar or crazy. In any case, for whatever reason you're all hostile and pissy, it's pretty obvious that to continue to have any kind of conversation would be a waste of time.
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I'm sorry, that the bolded bit is simply flat-out false. Insisting otherwise won't change the fact that it's a logical fallacy.

We have no idea what he might have said. We only have the bible's claims

And pissy? Not even remotely. Just dealing with the facts.
 
X Factor said:
No idea what that means but I suspect it's not flattering. :lol:
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Hah, it's not 'flattering' but the full explanation isn't that bad either. Basically avodah zarah is strange/wrong/idol worship, but there's also this idea of ****uf which means that if gentiles think they are practicing monotheism it can be acceptable even if their practice, doctrine, or theology is wrong. The consensus we've developed about Trinitarian Christianity is that it generally falls under this category and not paganism/polytheism/avodah zarah even though it's troublesome and forbidden to Jews.

tl;dr it's acceptable as 'close enough' monotheism for non-Jews.
 
ThoughtEx. said:
Sounds like your criticizing my belief as to how I view the Trinity. AS the question was asked from a perspective outside of Christianity, I am giving one from outside of Christianity. In simple terms. If you don't like it, oh well.
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For some reason, I'd had a higher opinion of you. No matter. Carry on with no more interference from me.
 
X Factor said:
For some reason, I'd had a higher opinion of you. No matter. Carry on with no more interference from me.
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I think you are buying more into what I'm saying than what I'm intending. I actually do like this stuff, I just don't believe in it. Like I said, it's like Greek Mythology to me, I love Greek Mythology. I would give similar answers if you asked me about Zeus.
 
Tanngrisnir said:
I'm sorry, that the bolded bit is simply flat-out false. Insisting otherwise won't change the fact that it's a logical fallacy.

We have no idea what he might have said. We only have the bible's claims

And pissy? Not even remotely. Just dealing with the facts.
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Ok, fine, if we reject everything attributed to Him in the Bible and speculate that He actually said things which were the exact opposite then, sure, there would be no concievable way to even know that, much less make determinations about His credibility. If, however, His statements are even reasonably recorded and interpreted then He either is who He said or He's not.
 
ThoughtEx. said:
I think you are buying more into what I'm saying than what I'm intending. I actually do like this stuff, I just don't believe in it. Like I said, it's like Greek Mythology to me, I love Greek Mythology. I would give similar answers if you asked me about Zeus.
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I'm Christian but not Catholic, yet I can still have a converrsation about the Catholic Church with Catholics that do not actually require me to congratulate and applaud myself for being better than to believe as they do.
 
Sherman123 said:
Hah, it's not 'flattering' but the full explanation isn't that bad either. Basically avodah zarah is strange/wrong/idol worship, but there's also this idea of ****uf which means that if gentiles think they are practicing monotheism it can be acceptable even if their practice, doctrine, or theology is wrong. The consensus we've developed about Trinitarian Christianity is that it generally falls under this category and not paganism/polytheism/avodah zarah even though it's troublesome and forbidden to Jews.

tl;dr it's acceptable as 'close enough' monotheism for non-Jews.
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Interesting, Sherman, for real. Thanks for the explanation.
 
X Factor said:
I'm Christian but not Catholic, yet I can still have a converrsation about the Catholic Church with Catholics that do not actually require me to congratulate and applaud myself for being better than to believe as they do.
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Well, if that's how I came off, I apologize. I was going more for distant and scholarly trying to explain the concept in a simple way, it's a tough one to grasp. And then everyone started crying foul, and I got defensive. My bad.
 
Josie said:
Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses are two.
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That is really interesting to me. I had no idea that they believed that. I was under the assumption that one of the main reasons Christianity isn't Judaism is because of the belief in the trinity. It seems odd that a branch of Christianity could take that away and still be considered Christian.
 
SheWolf said:
That actually sounds confusing to me.
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There are a lot of verses in the New Testament that describe the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost as one and much of "Christianity" misinterpret those verses to mean one person with some weird split personality type thing where they are 3 personalities in one person when the oneness is simply meant to be one in purpose and a unity of blessings. For example a board of directors of a company may have 15 directors but they form one board and they are one in wanting the best for the company. The oneness of the Godhead is meant in that kind of way This was clearly taught by Christ when He prayed to Heavenly Father for His 12 apostles and those that believe on their words:

John 17:
18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
 
MrPeanut said:
That is really interesting to me. I had no idea that they believed that. I was under the assumption that one of the main reasons Christianity isn't Judaism is because of the belief in the trinity. It seems odd that a branch of Christianity could take that away and still be considered Christian.
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Some people don't consider them Christians.
 
Josie said:
Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses are two.
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Mormons believe Jesus is the Son of God, and part of the Godhead-Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. So Mormons certainly believe Jesus is a God, but He is not Heavenly Father, who is above Him.

John 14:
28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
 
laska said:
Mormons believe Jesus is the Son of God, and part of the Godhead-Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. So Mormons certainly believe Jesus is a God, but He is not Heavenly Father, who is above Him.
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I didn't realize they thought Heavenly Father and God were separate.
 
X Factor said:
Ok, fine, if we reject everything attributed to Him in the Bible and speculate that He actually said things which were the exact opposite then, sure, there would be no concievable way to even know that, much less make determinations about His credibility. If, however, His statements are even reasonably recorded and interpreted then He either is who He said or He's not.
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No, I haven't speculated that at all. It's also equally possible that he was a real person, not god, a liar or insance, who had such attributed given to him later, amongst other things.

There's no way to know or to accurately assess if what is attributed to him was 'reasonably recorded', esp in light of the supernatual events associated with him.

Again: it's a false dichotomy, no matter how much you apparently wish it weren't.
 
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