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My Born Again Aunt thinks NDE's are really Satanic Angles tricking people into hell

Re: My Born Again Aunt thinks NDE's are really Satanic Angles tricking people into he

Renae said:
is there validity to this view
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No

Renae said:
you have an NDE, and you no longer believe in the rules. The rules bind people, control people, they are why I, a devoutly faithful believer in Jesus am not a practicing catholic anymore. I believe that while the Bible is a useful teaching manual for life, it's not the rigorous set of laws each different faction of Christianity would have us believe in their own way.
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Your impression of what "each different faction of Christianity would have us believe" is incorrect. Catholicism focuses on sacraments and being in communion with the church as do a handful of other smaller denominations, but that is not the norm. Very few branches of Christianity have a rigorous set of laws or interpret the bible in such a way.

Churches do not generally focus on rules, strictures, etc.

Renae said:
morally proper, loving life where you care about others while accepting Jesus is IMHO far more a good life than someone that adheres to some churches strictures and attends church.
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The vast majority of Christian churches would agree with this statement.
 
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Re: My Born Again Aunt thinks NDE's are really Satanic Angles tricking people into he

SMTA said:
Trying a different tangent? What's your angle here?
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It definitely involves sin. Cos you know, it would be hard to understand otherwise.
 
Re: My Born Again Aunt thinks NDE's are really Satanic Angles tricking people into he

Hatuey said:
It definitely involves sin. Cos you know, it would be hard to understand otherwise.
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No sin, no sinners.
No sinners, no religion.
No religion, no churches.
No churches, no greedy pastors.
No greedy pastors, no money.
No money, no graft and corruption.
No graft and corroption, no sins.

Amazing, ain't it!?
 
Re: My Born Again Aunt thinks NDE's are really Satanic Angles tricking people into he

SMTA said:
No sin, no sinners.
No sinners, no religion.
No religion, no churches.
No churches, no greedy pastors.
No greedy pastors, no money.
No money, no graft and corruption.
No graft and corroption, no sins.

Amazing, ain't it!?
Click to expand...

I was just going with the whole math puns. My wife is right. I should stay away from them.
 
Re: My Born Again Aunt thinks NDE's are really Satanic Angles tricking people into he

She believes that all NDE stories are really Satan's work, convincing people to disregard the rigorous adherence to Biblical Stricture that her church, which coincidently if you don't follow Jesus exactly as they do you're condemned to hell anyway... demands. I thought she was just a lonely voice, but apparently not.
Click to expand...

You cannot follow The Lord Jesus. He was showing the people of Israel that their deeds were evil, while he, the only person who could ever do it fulfilled the whole of the Law, all 613 statutes, and the intent implied in them to the full. You nor I cannot do them. People of Israel under the Law, before His death and resurrection were promised salvation for believing he was the Messiah, not by their own works. Since His resurrection the Gospel, The Good News, preached by Paul is the only way to be ensured eternal life. Not by your works, but by the Lord Jesus's works implied to and accepted as done for you by faith. No other human being but Christ, God Himself, could ever have taken the book, or power of Life from the hand of that held it.


Revelation 5*And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.

2*And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?

3*And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.

4*And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.

5*And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
 
Re: My Born Again Aunt thinks NDE's are really Satanic Angles tricking people into he

Hatuey said:
I was just going with the whole math puns. My wife is right. I should stay away from them.
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Yea, I caught the sine / cosine reference.
 
Re: My Born Again Aunt thinks NDE's are really Satanic Angles tricking people into he

SMTA said:
Yea, I caught the sine / cosine reference.
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You missed tan. Understand? ;)
 
Re: My Born Again Aunt thinks NDE's are really Satanic Angles tricking people into he

Hatuey said:
You missed tan. Understand? ;)
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EMETIB, smartass. :mrgreen:
 
Re: My Born Again Aunt thinks NDE's are really Satanic Angles tricking people into he

rocket88 said:
What I usually say is that I believe in God, but I don't believe in churches. Churches are all too human.

.
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Golly, you believe in having friends ----- do you not? Why not fellow believers that you can study the Bible with? You are all too human too ----- and don't forget it? I once heard said that if a person finds the perfect church, he should cease attending it because he will ruin it!;)

Perhaps you do attend church , and you are right! Worship is all about GOD and not going to the "right" church.
 
Re: My Born Again Aunt thinks NDE's are really Satanic Angles tricking people into he

rocket88 said:
What I usually say is that I believe in God, but I don't believe in churches. Churches are all too human.

One night I woke up and I swear I saw my soul. I went to sit up in bed, only when I sat up, my body didn't and I saw light around my arm (which remained motionless). Since then I've known that whatever I believed before, I was certain of the existence of my spirit.

Not exactly a NDE, but it fundamentally changed my life.
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The lord works in mysterious ways.

I had a self-induced out-of-body experience from eating improperly prepared Hawaiian Baby Wood Rose seeds back in college. [you have to burn them to remove the strychnine] As I lay in bed convulsing, I concentrated on the corner of the ceiling. Having experimented with astral projection earlier in my life, I was able to see myself, writhing in pain from that corner. definitely a NDE
 
Re: My Born Again Aunt thinks NDE's are really Satanic Angles tricking people into he

countryboy said:
Kind of a stretch without some direct mention of NDEs in the Bible. I don't think there's even scriptural evidence for NDEs, let alone them being satanic trickery.
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I don't think so either other than to avoid magic/sorcery.
 
Re: My Born Again Aunt thinks NDE's are really Satanic Angles tricking people into he

Renae said:
Seriously.

She believes that all NDE stories are really Satan's work, convincing people to disregard the rigorous adherence to Biblical Stricture that her church, which coincidently if you don't follow Jesus exactly as they do you're condemned to hell anyway... demands. I thought she was just a lonely voice, but apparently not.

Near Death Experiences: A Trick of Satan?

Now, if you don't' believe in religion, Jesus, Satan, an afterlife or all that, this conversation isn't for you, and I do not care if your belief is oblivion awaits us. That's great, it's also irrelevant to this discussion and I am asking you please, do not troll with that **** okay?

This discussion is for the religious among us, is there validity to this view, that NDE's which are a majority "Here is wonderful love, do not fear death" experiences (yes I know there are negative NDE's too, even ones where people find Jesus who saves them at the gates of hell) that the experiencers tend to walk away from having a profoundly changed view of God, life, death and the place of religion.

The common features of post NDE experiences are:

No fear of death
Loving everyone equally
selflessness
A strong belief in a higher power
Lack of regard towards organized religious tenants

It's this last part I believe, that causes the greatest angst with the religious zealots, you have an NDE, and you no longer believe in the rules. The rules bind people, control people, they are why I, a devoutly faithful believer in Jesus am not a practicing catholic anymore. I believe that while the Bible is a useful teaching manual for life, it's not the rigorous set of laws each different faction of Christianity would have us believe in their own way. Lead a morally proper, loving life where you care about others while accepting Jesus is IMHO far more a good life than someone that adheres to some churches strictures and attends church.
Click to expand...

By your troll request, I take that as meaning you only want Christians to reply. No one of another religion.
 
Re: My Born Again Aunt thinks NDE's are really Satanic Angles tricking people into he

Perotista said:
By your troll request, I take that as meaning you only want Christians to reply. No one of another religion.
Click to expand...

No. i just didn't desire to read. "there is no afterlife" stuff
 
Re: My Born Again Aunt thinks NDE's are really Satanic Angles tricking people into he

SMTA said:
No sin, no sinners.
No sinners, no religion.
No religion, no churches.
No churches, no greedy pastors.
No greedy pastors, no money.
No money, no graft and corruption.
No graft and corroption, no sins.

Amazing, ain't it!?
Click to expand...

Whether you believe there's sin or not, there is positive and negative. Such is the nature of the universe.

Satan represents the negative while God the positive.
 
Re: My Born Again Aunt thinks NDE's are really Satanic Angles tricking people into he

Renae said:
No. i just didn't desire to read. "there is no afterlife" stuff
Click to expand...

I believe one is reborn into other lives which are determined by the amount of karma or how lived their life in this life until one can achieve enlightenment. Once enlightenment is achieved, that ends the cycle of birth, death, rebirth etc. The remaining question is where does one go after enlightenment is achieved.

The Buddha put it this way when asked on his death bed, he was going to a place where there was time and no time, space and no space, conscious and no conscious, form and no form and a few more. There has been some people who read that and determine or came to the conclusion the Buddha was talking about another dimension some 2600 years ago. Is there a soul or conscious that is passed on, somewhere? I would say yes.

Is there a heaven and hell? Yes, but not in the way Christians believe or view them. One can be reborn in heaven or hell or back on earth depending on the Karma built up over time, time that can consist of many lives. But one is also reborn from heaven or hell back into another life someplace at sometime until enlightenment is achieve and that cycles of birth, death, birth, death comes to an end.

This is a short synopsis of another religions beliefs. Unlike the Christian god, Buddha was just a man who passed on his teachings. One honors the Buddha, but does not worship him. It is his teachings that are important, not necessarily the man. The middle way.
 
Re: My Born Again Aunt thinks NDE's are really Satanic Angles tricking people into he

LittleNipper said:
Golly, you believe in having friends ----- do you not? Why not fellow believers that you can study the Bible with? You are all too human too ----- and don't forget it? I once heard said that if a person finds the perfect church, he should cease attending it because he will ruin it!;)

Perhaps you do attend church , and you are right! Worship is all about GOD and not going to the "right" church.
Click to expand...

I haven't found one that suits me. In the end it's the politics that got me. Not the left/right dynamic, but the church politics things. I thought I had a good one. Problem was that my ex-wife is friends with a very well connected family there, so since the divorce, I'm not very welcome.
 
Re: My Born Again Aunt thinks NDE's are really Satanic Angles tricking people into he

SMTA said:
No sin, no sinners.
No sinners, no religion.
No religion, no churches.
No churches, no greedy pastors.
No greedy pastors, no money.
No money, no graft and corruption.
No graft and corroption, no sins.

Amazing, ain't it!?
Click to expand...

Not at all!

Do you believe that Hitler was good or bad? What about Stalin? If they lie and steal and murder, does that mean that those who do such things are not like them? True, if you can get rid of the notion of sin then that may make you feel better about the things you do; however, that doesn't make them right...
 
Re: My Born Again Aunt thinks NDE's are really Satanic Angles tricking people into he

Philadelphian said:
You cannot follow The Lord Jesus. He was showing the people of Israel that their deeds were evil, while he, the only person who could ever do it fulfilled the whole of the Law, all 613 statutes, and the intent implied in them to the full. You nor I cannot do them. People of Israel under the Law, before His death and resurrection were promised salvation for believing he was the Messiah, not by their own works. Since His resurrection the Gospel, The Good News, preached by Paul is the only way to be ensured eternal life. Not by your works, but by the Lord Jesus's works implied to and accepted as done for you by faith. No other human being but Christ, God Himself, could ever have taken the book, or power of Life from the hand of that held it.


Revelation 5*And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.

2*And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?

3*And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.

4*And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.

5*And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
Click to expand...

....Da jooooooooos!!!
 
Re: My Born Again Aunt thinks NDE's are really Satanic Angles tricking people into he

Renae said:
Seriously.

She believes that all NDE stories are really Satan's work, convincing people to disregard the rigorous adherence to Biblical Stricture that her church, which coincidently if you don't follow Jesus exactly as they do you're condemned to hell anyway... demands. I thought she was just a lonely voice, but apparently not.

Near Death Experiences: A Trick of Satan?

Now, if you don't' believe in religion, Jesus, Satan, an afterlife or all that, this conversation isn't for you, and I do not care if your belief is oblivion awaits us. That's great, it's also irrelevant to this discussion and I am asking you please, do not troll with that **** okay?

This discussion is for the religious among us, is there validity to this view, that NDE's which are a majority "Here is wonderful love, do not fear death" experiences (yes I know there are negative NDE's too, even ones where people find Jesus who saves them at the gates of hell) that the experiencers tend to walk away from having a profoundly changed view of God, life, death and the place of religion.

The common features of post NDE experiences are:

No fear of death
Loving everyone equally
selflessness
A strong belief in a higher power
Lack of regard towards organized religious tenants

It's this last part I believe, that causes the greatest angst with the religious zealots, you have an NDE, and you no longer believe in the rules. The rules bind people, control people, they are why I, a devoutly faithful believer in Jesus am not a practicing catholic anymore. I believe that while the Bible is a useful teaching manual for life, it's not the rigorous set of laws each different faction of Christianity would have us believe in their own way. Lead a morally proper, loving life where you care about others while accepting Jesus is IMHO far more a good life than someone that adheres to some churches strictures and attends church.
Click to expand...

St. John tells us to test all spirits. I see no reason to not include NDE's.

By the way, since you're not a Catholic anymore, how do you react when Jesus says: "unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood, you do not have life in you."?
 
Re: My Born Again Aunt thinks NDE's are really Satanic Angles tricking people into he

phattonez said:
St. John tells us to test all spirits. I see no reason to not include NDE's.

By the way, since you're not a Catholic anymore, how do you react when Jesus says: "unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood, you do not have life in you."?
Click to expand...

I'm a non-practicing catholic. How's that? I had some bad expieriences with the Church in my first marriage divorce and then the new pope is a ****e pope IMHO.
 
Re: My Born Again Aunt thinks NDE's are really Satanic Angles tricking people into he

Renae said:
I'm a non-practicing catholic. How's that? I had some bad expieriences with the Church in my first marriage divorce and then the new pope is a ****e pope IMHO.
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The first pope denied Jesus three times. Bad popes are part of the experience.

And does a bad experience change the truth of an institution?
 
Re: My Born Again Aunt thinks NDE's are really Satanic Angles tricking people into he

phattonez said:
The first pope denied Jesus three times. Bad popes are part of the experience.

And does a bad experience change the truth of an institution?
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It changes my relationship to it.
 
Re: My Born Again Aunt thinks NDE's are really Satanic Angles tricking people into he

Renae said:
It changes my relationship to it.
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So much so that you refuse to accept the body of Christ? How can you live without the Eucharist? I understand perhaps certain members of the Church being terrible. Trust me, I totally get it. But still, my loyalty is to Christ, and He founded the Church. I cannot leave it.
 
Re: My Born Again Aunt thinks NDE's are really Satanic Angles tricking people into he

phattonez said:
So much so that you refuse to accept the body of Christ? How can you live without the Eucharist? I understand perhaps certain members of the Church being terrible. Trust me, I totally get it. But still, my loyalty is to Christ, and He founded the Church. I cannot leave it.
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I accept Jesus, I have partaken of the Eucharist, and would do so again in the right setting. The last Church I attended, about half way through, the Priest spent ten min hawking the wares of a traveling shyster salesman selling knick knacks and videos in the back of the Church and another 10 min basically begging for money.

When my ex left me, I went to the church to get them to acknowledge the divorce, they refused and insisted we needed to get back together and try again.

Uhm, dude, it was OVER, to this DAY they still reject it.
 
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