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The Atheist Belief System

Sherlock Holmes said:
I submitted a post to this thread yesterday but it has not appeared, I have received no messages about any problems and I'm baffled by this.
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Try it again. This post showed up.
 
RAMOSS said:
I would think that non-existent as used by the people who cling to it is 'rare'.
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And I would say that the people who even admit scientism even exists is pretty rare.
 
Manc Skipper said:
The dictionary says it's rare. As are the particular people who cling to it as a weapon. And it's still not atheism.
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Yeah, It's so rare that just about every anti-theist on every forum on the internet subscribes to it, but then again, those may not be real people.
 
atheism is a belief system as it cannot be proven. the person might believe that it is true but other than that there is no evidence to go beyond that supporting the claim.
 
RAMOSS said:
Einstein insisted the 'reality is an illusion, although a very persistent one'. As for calling them 'charletans', well, Dawkins is a bit harsh and not diplomatic, but when it comes to the point the claim can not be verified , he is right.
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The Einstein quote is likely apocryphal, an internet meme based loosely on something he wrote once in a letter as regards our sense of time, but let's accept it as from Einstein, indeed as "insistently" from him. If true, then it follows that Dawkins is out of line and way out of his depth, a charlatan as I posted previously, or just plain full of ****, as I prefer to think of him.

Moreover, if Dennet is right about consciousness, then Dawkins is full of ****, or perhaps you'd care to undertake explaining how an illusion may be delusional. But Dennet, of course, is just a pedestrian academic philosopher capitalizing on an exotic argument in the ongoing strain of anti-Cartesianism that provides academic philosophers with their intellectual kicks. Finally, Einstein's "quote" is more in line with ancient Indian religion, and so delusional according to your hero Dawkins.

Einstein was the Real Deal -- Dawkins and Dennet a couple of cobblers. :)
 
ludin said:
atheism is a belief system as it cannot be proven. the person might believe that it is true but other than that there is no evidence to go beyond that supporting the claim.
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Just like religion.
 
ludin said:
atheism is a belief system as it cannot be proven. the person might believe that it is true but other than that there is no evidence to go beyond that supporting the claim.
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What are it's beliefs, other than the rejection of the belief in a supernatural deity?? One item that is a not accepting another claim is not a system.
 
RAMOSS said:
What are it's beliefs, other than the rejection of the belief in a supernatural deity?? One item that is a not accepting another claim is not a system.
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rejection of the belief in a supernatural deity is a belief. as they cannot objectively prove that it doesn't exist.
the rejection of the claim comes as a personal belief.
 
ludin said:
rejection of the belief in a supernatural deity is a belief. as they cannot objectively prove that it doesn't exist.
the rejection of the claim comes as a personal belief.
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No, it's not. One can simply dismiss what others claim to be evidence without entering into the particular belief that such a deity actually doesn't exist.

A lack of a belief is not itself a belief.
 
ludin said:
rejection of the belief in a supernatural deity is a belief. as they cannot objectively prove that it doesn't exist.
the rejection of the claim comes as a personal belief.
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It might be a belief (there are people who reject that idea), but how is a single belief, or lack there of a 'system'. You are not answering the question. What goes along with 'Not believing in a supernatural deity' that makes it a system?
 
RAMOSS said:
It might be a belief (there are people who reject that idea), but how is a single belief, or lack there of a 'system'. You are not answering the question. What goes along with 'Not believing in a supernatural deity' that makes it a system?
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I did answer the question it wasn't that hard to answer.

the rejection of a the claim is a belief.

definition of belief.

an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists
 
ludin said:
I did answer the question it wasn't that hard to answer.

the rejection of a the claim is a belief.

definition of belief.

an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists
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That isn't what I asked. I asked 'what made it a system?'
 
RAMOSS said:
What are it's beliefs, other than the rejection of the belief in a supernatural deity?? One item that is a not accepting another claim is not a system.
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Left wing politics...
 
it's just me said:
Left wing politics...
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Then, how do you explain Cephus?? Right wing atheist. I think he would be insulted if someone told him that being an atheist gave him left wing politics.
 
RAMOSS said:
Then, how do you explain Cephus?? Right wing atheist. I think he would be insulted if someone told him that being an atheist gave him left wing politics.
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I explain him by saying he's one guy. Go ahead, count them. Count all the right wing atheists on this website, let me know what you come up with.

Besides, I think it's left wing politics that makes you an atheist, more often than not.
 
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it's just me said:
I explain him by saying he's one guy. Go ahead, count them. Count all the right wing atheists on this website, let me know what you come up with.

Besides, I think it's left wing politics that makes you an atheist, more often than not.
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THere is one person.. that make the claim 'left wing politics' is not a component for being an atheist. I bet I can find many hundreds of examples.

There was a survey of self identified atheists, and while there was a slight lean to the left, there were significant numbers of independent conservative and republican atheists

Atheist conservatives and libertarians are not rare - Gene Expression

So, it makes your 'leftist politics' when it comes to identifying atheism as a belief system incorrect.
 
RAMOSS said:
THere is one person.. that make the claim 'left wing politics' is not a component for being an atheist. I bet I can find many hundreds of examples.

There was a survey of self identified atheists, and while there was a slight lean to the left, there were significant numbers of independent conservative and republican atheists

Atheist conservatives and libertarians are not rare - Gene Expression

So, it makes your 'leftist politics' when it comes to identifying atheism as a belief system incorrect.
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Yeah, I'll bet you can find a survey to support anything, can't you? My challenge still stands, find all of the right wing atheists on this site.
 
RAMOSS said:
THere is one person.. that make the claim 'left wing politics' is not a component for being an atheist. I bet I can find many hundreds of examples.

There was a survey of self identified atheists, and while there was a slight lean to the left, there were significant numbers of independent conservative and republican atheists

Atheist conservatives and libertarians are not rare - Gene Expression

So, it makes your 'leftist politics' when it comes to identifying atheism as a belief system incorrect.
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"Self-identified atheists tend to be aligned with the Democratic Party and with political liberalism. About two-thirds of atheists (69%) identify as Democrats (or lean in that direction), and a majority (56%) call themselves political liberals (compared with just one-in-ten who say they are conservatives)."

10 facts about atheists | Pew Research Center
 
pinqy said:
That's not a belief of atheism. It's coincidental. There is nothing inherent in not believing in gods that would make one left wing, though the two often go together.
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Ever read the Communist Manifesto? That was the whole purpose of Marx's politics, to get rid of any idea of God, the Church, marriage, and put the State at the center of the universe.
 
it's just me said:
Ever read the Communist Manifesto? That was the whole purpose of Marx's politics, to get rid of any idea of God, the Church, marriage, and put the State at the center of the universe.
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You are mixing up a component with a system. Atheism was a component in the specific system that was decribed by the Communist Manifesto. That does not mean that atheism is reliant on the communist ideas. It is just Groucho's brother was exposed to the corruption and influence of the Eastern Orthodox Church on the politics of Russia.
 
RAMOSS said:
You are mixing up a component with a system. Atheism was a component in the specific system that was decribed by the Communist Manifesto. That does not mean that atheism is reliant on the communist ideas. It is just Groucho's brother was exposed to the corruption and influence of the Eastern Orthodox Church on the politics of Russia.
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I am not confusing anything with anything else. What I said earlier is that atheism follows left wing politics and in Marxism It's the literal truth, and I have already shown you the PEW research stats.

What does the EO Church have to do with any of this?
 
it's just me said:
I am not confusing anything with anything else. What I said earlier is that atheism follows left wing politics and in Marxism It's the literal truth, and I have already shown you the PEW research stats.

What does the EO Church have to do with any of this?
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I am thinking on the method that Communism got installed in Russia, because of the reaction of certain groups against the corruption of the Czars and how the EO church supported that and the oligarchy.

However, it would be a mistake to say that Karl Marx was an atheist. He viewed religion as a tool by the rich to give the poor false hope (that is what the phrase 'opium of the masses' means).

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism_and_religion

arl Marx's religious views have been the subject of much interpretation. He famously stated in Critique of Hegel's Philosophy of Right:

Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.

The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo.

Criticism has plucked the imaginary flowers on the chain not in order that man shall continue to bear that chain without fantasy or consolation, but so that he shall throw off the chain and pluck the living flower. The criticism of religion disillusions man, so that he will think, act, and fashion his reality like a man who has discarded his illusions and regained his senses, so that he will move around himself as his own true Sun. Religion is only the illusory Sun which revolves around man as long as he does not revolve around himself.[3]

According to Howard Zinn, "He [Marx] saw religion, not just negatively as 'the opium of the people,' but positively as the 'sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, the soul of soulless conditions.' This helps us understand the mass appeal of the religious charlatans of the television screen, as well as the work of Liberation Theology in joining the soulfulness of religion to the energy of revolutionary movements in miserably poor countries.".[4] Some recent scholarship has suggested that 'opium of the people' is itself a dialectical metaphor, a 'protest' and an 'expression' of suffering[5][6]
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While many people attribute atheism to Karl Marx, his writings themselves are quite open to a lot of interpretation... and when it comes to some responses 'On the Jewish Question', Karl Marx wrote

From https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/marx/

In this text Marx begins to make clear the distance between himself and his radical liberal colleagues among the Young Hegelians; in particular Bruno Bauer. Bauer had recently written against Jewish emancipation, from an atheist perspective, arguing that the religion of both Jews and Christians was a barrier to emancipation. In responding to Bauer, Marx makes one of the most enduring arguments from his early writings, by means of introducing a distinction between political emancipation — essentially the grant of liberal rights and liberties — and human emancipation. Marx’s reply to Bauer is that political emancipation is perfectly compatible with the continued existence of religion, as the contemporary example of the United States demonstrates.
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RAMOSS said:
I am thinking on the method that Communism got installed in Russia, because of the reaction of certain groups against the corruption of the Czars and how the EO church supported that and the oligarchy.
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Well, that is another matter altogether and a separate discussion.
 
it's just me said:
Ever read the Communist Manifesto? That was the whole purpose of Marx's politics, to get rid of any idea of God, the Church, marriage, and put the State at the center of the universe.
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Yes, I have. But that is atheism as a part of communism, not communism as a part of atheism.
 
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