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Original Sin

Interpreting "Original Sin" to be the process of inventing an entirely new sin is a LITERAL interpretation of the term.

The Phillipians (followers of Bishop Avery Phillips) take the Bible literally.
 
JANFU said:
Original Sin
Are we born with this? If so why?
If yes, what did Jesus die for? Did his sacrifice not address this Sin?
If a baby is not baptized and dies prior to, do they die with Original Sin?
This is not a troll thread. I am just very, very curious as to what others believe.
My belief is we are not born with Original Sin, as Jesus died on the cross for all humanities sins.

I am far from a biblical scholar, nor am I well read in the bible, though I am Christian and believe Jesus was the Son of God.
I am sure these questions have been posed before. But if you wish to reply, that would be fine.
Thank you
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We are not born with original sin. That is one religion's belief.
 
Fishking said:
He atoned for all of that and future sins. That means that Jesus basically paid our entrance fee into Heaven, which requires perfection to enter.
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Well we all commit sins as we go thru life, from minor to major sins.
 
JANFU said:
Well we all commit sins as we go thru life, from minor to major sins.
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But why are babies punished with deformities and cancer? Are babies sinful?

It seems that a logical and just god wouldn't punish people for something they didn't do, which was apparently eating a piece of fruit. Billions of innocent humans are punished because a girl ate an apple?

If there's a god, he's a complete asshole.
 
Brewdog said:
But why are babies punished with deformities and cancer? Are babies sinful?

It seems that a logical and just god wouldn't punish people for something they didn't do, which was apparently eating a piece of fruit. Billions of innocent humans are punished because a girl ate an apple?

If there's a god, he's a complete asshole.
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He (or she or it) may have nothing to do with that silly apple story.

We don't know if illness/misfortune etc. is a punishment or a random thing that is an equal threat to all people and not at all designated to any one specific person.

That's what Bishop Phillips taught.
 
Vox said:
He (or she or it) may have nothing to do with that silly apple story.

We don't know if illness/misfortune etc. is a punishment or a random thing that is an equal threat to all people and not at all designated to any one specific person.

That's what Bishop Phillips taught.
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Silly story? I thought you took the Bible literally. What language did snakes speak back then?
 
JohnPaul said:
Silly story? I thought you took the Bible literally. What language did snakes speak back then?
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That was Satan and Satan speaks all languages. The apple story is silly. It was Holy Knowledge Fruit.
 
JANFU said:
Original Sin
Are we born with this? If so why?
If yes, what did Jesus die for? Did his sacrifice not address this Sin?
If a baby is not baptized and dies prior to, do they die with Original Sin?
This is not a troll thread. I am just very, very curious as to what others believe.
My belief is we are not born with Original Sin, as Jesus died on the cross for all humanities sins.

I am far from a biblical scholar, nor am I well read in the bible, though I am Christian and believe Jesus was the Son of God.
I am sure these questions have been posed before. But if you wish to reply, that would be fine.
Thank you
Click to expand...

I'm honestly not trying to hijack the thread here, but for that "original sin" concept to work, it must be proved that we all descended from the same couple. That represents something referred to as a genetic bottleneck, and my understanding is that there is nothing to support the idea that a genetic bottleneck that small ever existed.

https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpres...doff-between-science-and-faith-and-a-contest/
 
JANFU said:
Original Sin
Are we born with this? If so why?
If yes, what did Jesus die for? Did his sacrifice not address this Sin?
If a baby is not baptized and dies prior to, do they die with Original Sin?
This is not a troll thread. I am just very, very curious as to what others believe.
My belief is we are not born with Original Sin, as Jesus died on the cross for all humanities sins.

I am far from a biblical scholar, nor am I well read in the bible, though I am Christian and believe Jesus was the Son of God.
I am sure these questions have been posed before. But if you wish to reply, that would be fine.
Thank you
Click to expand...

Original Sin is nothing more than the choice to rebel against authority.

Yes, we're all born with the ability to choose whether to be sensible or not.

It's how we learn that what we thought is actually true.
 
Porkuloss said:
I'm honestly not trying to hijack the thread here, but for that "original sin" concept to work, it must be proved that we all descended from the same couple. That represents something referred to as a genetic bottleneck, and my understanding is that there is nothing to support the idea that a genetic bottleneck that small ever existed.

https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpres...doff-between-science-and-faith-and-a-contest/
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Yes, where did the sons of Adam and Eve find their wives? Cain ran off to the Land of Nod and found a wife, Where did she come from? I think even the early Hebrews knew the story was allegorical.
 
JohnPaul said:
Yes, where did the sons of Adam and Eve find their wives? Cain ran off to the Land of Nod and found a wife, Where did she come from? I think even the early Hebrews knew the story was allegorical.
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The problem is, that busts the thesis of "original sin", does it not? That because Adam/Eve fell, we are all inherently (literally) sinners in need of Christ's sacrifice? Or does the allegory somehow also work in somehow? There are some basic confusions I have with the 'saved sinners' stuff, but that seems a pretty basic problem. Could Christ's death for our collective sins also be allegory?
 
Porkuloss said:
The problem is, that busts the thesis of "original sin", does it not? That because Adam/Eve fell, we are all inherently (literally) sinners in need of Christ's sacrifice? Or does the allegory somehow also work in somehow? There are some basic confusions I have with the 'saved sinners' stuff, but that seems a pretty basic problem. Could Christ's death for our collective sins also be allegory?
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The Garden of Eden was an old Babylonian myth. The Christians stole it centuries later and tried to force it to fit their Original Sin doctrine. Same with the serpent as Satan.
 
JANFU said:
Original Sin
Are we born with this? If so why?
If yes, what did Jesus die for? Did his sacrifice not address this Sin?
If a baby is not baptized and dies prior to, do they die with Original Sin?
This is not a troll thread. I am just very, very curious as to what others believe.
My belief is we are not born with Original Sin, as Jesus died on the cross for all humanities sins.

I am far from a biblical scholar, nor am I well read in the bible, though I am Christian and believe Jesus was the Son of God.
I am sure these questions have been posed before. But if you wish to reply, that would be fine.
Thank you
Click to expand...
I simply believe in living by the 10 commandments as best as possible, and believe whatever the next life is, my overall attempts of good or bad will follow.
 
JohnPaul said:
The Garden of Eden was an old Babylonian myth. The Christians stole it centuries later and tried to force it to fit their Original Sin doctrine. Same with the serpent as Satan.
Click to expand...

What if the ancestry of both actually lived it?
 
JohnPaul said:
Yes, where did the sons of Adam and Eve find their wives? Cain ran off to the Land of Nod and found a wife, Where did she come from? I think even the early Hebrews knew the story was allegorical.
Click to expand...

That's simple. The English translation of the Torah is poorly written, and by the understanding of the 17th century. Likely even molded for the king of the time.

If you look at the Torah in the oldest form know, the story of the creation is different than we understand it. Adam was the word for "mankind" Then a different word translated to Adam was the proper name, for the Adam of the story with Eve, Cain, and Able. Eden was probably one specific location of a world already populated by others.
 
JANFU said:
Original Sin
Are we born with this? If so why?
If yes, what did Jesus die for? Did his sacrifice not address this Sin?
If a baby is not baptized and dies prior to, do they die with Original Sin?
This is not a troll thread. I am just very, very curious as to what others believe.
My belief is we are not born with Original Sin, as Jesus died on the cross for all humanities sins.

I am far from a biblical scholar, nor am I well read in the bible, though I am Christian and believe Jesus was the Son of God.
I am sure these questions have been posed before. But if you wish to reply, that would be fine.
Thank you
Click to expand...

I try to go with what I think/believe/hope Jesus meant and what I sense God is telling me. While I do believe God allows for us to reject him, he wants all to accept the salvation he offers and be with him for all eternity. I believe Jesus is God, so I don't get caught up in having to say something exactly the right way in order for it to be acceptable but I know some do believe that and I don't think God cares which way we go on that.

As for sin, we all are subject to the consequences of collective sins for all time. And none of us, I believe, makes it out of this world without sinning--sins of commission, sins of omission. The Bible explains it that the sins of the fathers are visited upon the children even unto the fourth and fifth generations which I interpret as forever. So whether we are born with original sin (that of our fathers) or commit our own sins, I believe all are in need of God's salvation and it is available to all who want it.

And who knows whether the infant communes with God? I suspect all children do to some extent. I am quite certain a God of love does not punish the innocent.

That's pretty much my belief on salvation in a nutshell. I don't require that anybody else believe it because I think our attitude about God is what counts and not the theology that gets us there.
 
Brewdog said:
But why are babies punished with deformities and cancer? Are babies sinful?
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Why is everything God's doing?

Maybe that's how evolution works. Maybe one in a million or so such instances causes genetic changes.
 
Lord of Planar said:
Why is everything God's doing?

Maybe that's how evolution works. Maybe one in a million or so such instances causes genetic changes.
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We can agree here. But some people still believe that Noah built a big boat and then loaded up two of every animal. They believe in that LITERALLY.

And if you want to see someone like that squirm a bit, ask them how the polar bears and kangaroos got on the boat. Did Noah drive that wooden ark all over the world picking up animals and then drive around afterwards dropping them off? Why aren't there polar bears and kangaroos in Turkey?
 
Brewdog said:
We can agree here. But some people still believe that Noah built a big boat and then loaded up two of every animal. They believe in that LITERALLY.

And if you want to see someone like that squirm a bit, ask them how the polar bears and kangaroos got on the boat. Did Noah drive that wooden ark all over the world picking up animals and then drive around afterwards dropping them off? Why aren't there polar bears and kangaroos in Turkey?
Click to expand...

Back to the short version of a story often lacking relevant details. It could have just been the world Noah knew. I often wonder if he and his family lived at the bottom of the Mediterranean during the ice age as we were leaving it. The melting ice caps could have burst a natural dam at the rocks of Gibraltar.

Bottom line is, we really don't know. But we shouldn't just write-off the biblical stories.
 
JohnPaul said:
The Garden of Eden was an old Babylonian myth. The Christians stole it centuries later and tried to force it to fit their Original Sin doctrine. Same with the serpent as Satan.
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Just to point out that it is not Babylonian, but Sumerian. Edan is the Sumerian word for 'plain' or 'stepp'
 
RAMOSS said:
Just to point out that it is not Babylonian, but Sumerian. Edan is the Sumerian word for 'plain' or 'stepp'
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I think too many people forget about the numerous Sumerian writings.
 
Lord of Planar said:
What if the ancestry of both actually lived it?
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That is possible. The best guess now is that the site of the Garden of Eden is now under water in the Persian Gulf near the mouth of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers in Iraq. This was once dry land, a tropical paradise before the sea level rose after the last Ice Age. The Biblical Abraham lived in Ur, a city on the Euphrates river. Ruins of it can still be seen.
 
Last edited:
The Original Sin is defying God. I don't know of anyone who hasn't. It's the very reason we need salvation by grace.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Lord of Planar said:
Back to the short version of a story often lacking relevant details. It could have just been the world Noah knew. I often wonder if he and his family lived at the bottom of the Mediterranean during the ice age as we were leaving it. The melting ice caps could have burst a natural dam at the rocks of Gibraltar.

Bottom line is, we really don't know. But we shouldn't just write-off the biblical stories.
Click to expand...

Legends often have some basis in ancient events. Noah probably loaded two of each farm animal he owned, and the story got exaggerated. The latest theory of the Flood I have seen is that when the sea level rose after the last Ice Age, the Mediterranean broke through the Bosporus strait and flooded the low area that is now the Black Sea. The flooding waters are estunated to have been 20 times as large as Niagara Falls. That would have been enough to start a legend.
 
JohnPaul said:
Legends often have some basis in ancient events. Noah probably loaded two of each farm animal he owned, and the story got exaggerated. The latest theory of the Flood I have seen is that when the sea level rose after the last Ice Age, the Mediterranean broke through the Bosporus strait and flooded the low area that is now the Black Sea. The flooding waters are estunated to have been 20 times as large as Niagara Falls. That would have been enough to start a legend.
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Yes. Another possibility.
 
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