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I am kind of Muslim and kind of Southern Baptist

Bark

Bark

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I grew up going to Church and Mosque. I am reverted and saved. Should I go Jew just to cover all my bases, or is this impossible to do and still go to heaven?
 
God prefers hot over Luke warm.
 
Van Basten said:
That's not how religion works.

At least not in this case.
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Just curious. Is "this case" my case? And if so what doesn't work. Where is the contradiction? And if not my case then what case are you referring to?
 
Bark said:
I grew up going to Church and Mosque. I am reverted and saved. Should I go Jew just to cover all my bases, or is this impossible to do and still go to heaven?
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How can you simultaneously accept the Quran as propounded by Mohammed, and the idea that Christ is both God and the savior of mankind? They are directly in conflict. Unless you mean you were culturally, not religiously, involved in both?
 
Sherman123 said:
How can you simultaneously accept the Quran as propounded by Mohammed, and the idea that Christ is both God and the savior of mankind? They are directly in conflict. Unless you mean you were culturally, not religiously, involved in both?
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Fair point. I guess it is more cultural. When it comes to the dogma that is easier for me to dismiss. For example, how do I say Mohammad is God's only prophet while Jesus is just a man, or Jesus is God, etc. For most accepting their religion and their families religion means everyone there goes to the same place. For me I only get half of my family no matter what side I choose. I guess I have problems with verses that say God will reveal himself to all. My favorite is the Eskimos of 100 AD. If God reveals himself to all mankind, but we know empirically these Eskimos could have NEVER have heard of Jesus... I have problems with absolute certainty. But instead of giving up on God I take in more versions of Him. What does that mean for my heaven prospects.
 
Bark said:
Fair point. I guess it is more cultural. When it comes to the dogma that is easier for me to dismiss. For example, how do I say Mohammad is God's only prophet while Jesus is just a man, or Jesus is God, etc. For most accepting their religion and their families religion means everyone there goes to the same place. For me I only get half of my family no matter what side I choose. I guess I have problems with verses that say God will reveal himself to all. My favorite is the Eskimos of 100 AD. If God reveals himself to all mankind, but we know empirically these Eskimos could have NEVER have heard of Jesus... I have problems with absolute certainty. But instead of giving up on God I take in more versions of Him. What does that mean for my heaven prospects.
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What it means for your prospects of heaven depends entirely on what you think about heaven! Lol, you can't expect us to pick a theology for you.

Though, as a Jew I'm not concerned about what the Inuit (Eskimo's) did or didn't know about Moses or Abraham. It isn't necessary for them.
 
Sherman123 said:
What it means for your prospects of heaven depends entirely on what you think about heaven! Lol, you can't expect us to pick a theology for you.

Though, as a Jew I'm not concerned about what the Inuit (Eskimo's) did or didn't know about Moses or Abraham. It isn't necessary for them.
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No you're just not trying hard enough, lol. But what do you mean by your last line?
 
Bark said:
No you're just not trying hard enough, lol. But what do you mean by your last line?
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I mean that Judaism has no concept of original sin or the need for salvation. There is no expectation that others need to convert to Judaism in order to live righteous lives and merit a share in the world to come. The Torah devotes precious little space to the afterlife, and the Talmud only briefly discusses whether righteous gentiles enter the afterlife (One says No, One says Yes, and the consensus has been on the side of Yes). Tosefta Sanhedrin 13:2.
 
Sherman123 said:
I mean that Judaism has no concept of original sin or the need for salvation. There is no expectation that others need to convert to Judaism in order to live righteous lives and merit a share in the world to come. The Torah devotes precious little space to the afterlife, and the Talmud only briefly discusses whether righteous gentiles enter the afterlife (One says No, One says Yes, and the consensus has been on the side of Yes). Tosefta Sanhedrin 13:2.
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I like that. Maybe I'll spend some time learning the Jew world better. Muslims are the same way. What you do is rung up from day one. There is no refresh point or anything like a reset button. At the end you check the ledger and you just need to tip the scales. I always liked that more because I have always had problems believing a guy could go to heaven if he raped and killed his whole life, but for his most useless minutes of his life, his deathbed minutes he has a change of heart. Minus that deathbed would he have asked?
 
Bark said:
I grew up going to Church and Mosque. I am reverted and saved. Should I go Jew just to cover all my bases, or is this impossible to do and still go to heaven?
Click to expand...

You would probably be happiest in a Unitarian Universalist Church.
 
Bark said:
Fair point. I guess it is more cultural. When it comes to the dogma that is easier for me to dismiss. For example, how do I say Mohammad is God's only prophet while Jesus is just a man, or Jesus is God, etc. For most accepting their religion and their families religion means everyone there goes to the same place. For me I only get half of my family no matter what side I choose. I guess I have problems with verses that say God will reveal himself to all. My favorite is the Eskimos of 100 AD. If God reveals himself to all mankind, but we know empirically these Eskimos could have NEVER have heard of Jesus... I have problems with absolute certainty. But instead of giving up on God I take in more versions of Him. What does that mean for my heaven prospects.
Click to expand...

Well now. If all those Eskimo's are safe from hell fire and damnation, just because they never heard of the salvation of Jeeeezus, why would any upstanding lover of Jesus want to go and tell them about it? Now they gotta go to hell. Thanks for nothing!
 
Captain America said:
Well now. If all those Eskimo's are safe from hell fire and damnation, just because they never heard of the salvation of Jeeeezus, why would any upstanding lover of Jesus want to go and tell them about it? Now they gotta go to hell. Thanks for nothing!
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Ever think maybe the Eskimos could use some hell fire and flame. Maybe Jesus can be their Prometheus?
 
Bark said:
Just curious. Is "this case" my case? And if so what doesn't work. Where is the contradiction? And if not my case then what case are you referring to?
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Islam and Christianity are not compatible. They have completely separate views and distinctions.
Even with judism while more lined with Christianity there are differences between the two of them.
 
Captain America said:
Well now. If all those Eskimo's are safe from hell fire and damnation, just because they never heard of the salvation of Jeeeezus, why would any upstanding lover of Jesus want to go and tell them about it? Now they gotta go to hell. Thanks for nothing!
Click to expand...

For your statement to make sense, we have to believe the following:
1. People who don't know about Jesus cannot end up hell.
2. People who know about Jesus can end up in hell.

The problem is that this is a straw man. It's not a widely held position within Christianity. In fact, I would go as far as to say that it's a practically non-existent position.
 
ludin said:
Islam and Christianity are not compatible. They have completely separate views and distinctions.
Even with judism while more lined with Christianity there are differences between the two of them.
Click to expand...

Judism is not more aligned Christianity. Semites are Arabs as well. Jews and Muslims do not believe in the Trinity, the defining aspect of CHRISTianity. Growing up with both the only real difference I saw though was dogma. Aside from that the folks were the same. The morals were the same. The stories in the books are the same. The names were the same. The only real difference I saw was in the fact that neither book was written as the events happened. There were some cultural difference seeing as how one was written by Arabs and the other Greeks.

Just curious. What makes you say Chritianity is more like Judaism than Islam?
 
Bark said:
I grew up going to Church and Mosque. I am reverted and saved. Should I go Jew just to cover all my bases, or is this impossible to do and still go to heaven?
Click to expand...

Really? That's a pair to draw to.
 
Bark said:
I like that. Maybe I'll spend some time learning the Jew world better. Muslims are the same way. What you do is rung up from day one. There is no refresh point or anything like a reset button. At the end you check the ledger and you just need to tip the scales. I always liked that more because I have always had problems believing a guy could go to heaven if he raped and killed his whole life, but for his most useless minutes of his life, his deathbed minutes he has a change of heart. Minus that deathbed would he have asked?
Click to expand...

Here's an interesting out take on that very subject. The Catholics have a philosophy/belief (I think,) they call Vida est Laborum (sp?) Or, "Life is a job."

Simply put, from day one, you get rewarded in heavenly currency for everything you do that is good. And you pay, in heavenly currency, for everything you do bad. And when you arrive at the Pearly Gates, it is simply a matter if you have enough "heavenly currency," in your heavenly bank account to pay the admission into heaven.

To better explain this belief, please welcome Father Guido Sarducci.

 
Captain America said:
Here's an interesting out take on that very subject. The Catholics have a philosophy/belief (I think,) they call Vida est Laborum (sp?) Or, "Life is a job."

Simply put, from day one, you get rewarded in heavenly currency for everything you do that is good. And you pay, in heavenly currency, for everything you do bad. And when you arrive at the Pearly Gates, it is simply a matter if you have enough "heavenly currency," in your heavenly bank account to pay the admission into heaven.

To better explain this belief, please welcome Father Guido Sarducci.

Click to expand...


Lol, thank you for that. Do you remember the Catholic Indulgences? I can't help but to be reminded of that. And now knowing nuns are former mafioso, I get it.
 
Bark said:
Judism is not more aligned Christianity. Semites are Arabs as well. Jews and Muslims do not believe in the Trinity, the defining aspect of CHRISTianity. Growing up with both the only real difference I saw though was dogma. Aside from that the folks were the same. The morals were the same. The stories in the books are the same. The names were the same. The only real difference I saw was in the fact that neither book was written as the events happened. There were some cultural difference seeing as how one was written by Arabs and the other Greeks.

Just curious. What makes you say Chritianity is more like Judaism than Islam?
Click to expand...

Allah who Isalmic people worship is not the jewish God they are in fact separate entities with 100% different characteristics and to many to list.

Christianity is a split off from Judaism.
 
ludin said:
Allah who Isalmic people worship is not the jewish God they are in fact separate entities with 100% different characteristics and to many to list.

Christianity is a split off from Judaism.
Click to expand...

No that is very wrong. Isa is Arabic for Jesus. Dios is Spanish for God. Allah is what the Christians from Lebanon call God. Muslims tell the same stories as the old testament. It is an Abrahamic faith. Semites are both Muslim and Jewish. The first split was the catholic split was the Bishop of Rome. Whereas Aramaic is in the Bible it is only a couple of times. It is primarily a Greek text. The Semites continued as Jews until they branched off to Islam. The Bishop of Rome became the Pope. The Pope beget the Anti-pope. Thus the East Orthadox v West Catholic. Martin Luther began the Protestants. The Protestants began American Evangelicals.

Jews are the trunk. The first major split in the tree is European Christians. Where was Paul in Jail? Jews (Mid East) continued one path Christians another (Europe). 1300 years after that split, Muslims and Jews split. But don't forget the Italian and Spanish Frescoes. They show women walking into church wearing Hijab. Or is it Habit? I forget two letter difference, but same thing. Muslims in Europe and Mid East. 1492 the Spanish kick Muslims out. There were Franks, Gauls, Saxons, etc all them old ones through the centuries. They were pagans and Christians in Europe since basically the crucifixion. Jews were treated horribly in Europe through the centuries until after the Holocaust. Muslims and Jews existed in the more peaceful way of their time. As did Muslims and Christians.

There's more but this is basic. Like REALLY basic.
 
ludin said:
Allah who Isalmic people worship is not the jewish God they are in fact separate entities with 100% different characteristics and to many to list.

Christianity is a split off from Judaism.
Click to expand...

We disagree. In point of fact, Judaism tends to view Islam as being 'more correct' than Christianity. For example, we generally hold Christianity to be avodah zerah (idolatry) or something very close to it, whereas we affirm that Islam is purely monotheistic. Therefore, a Jew can enter a Mosque but not a Church.
 
Bark said:
I grew up going to Church and Mosque. I am reverted and saved. Should I go Jew just to cover all my bases, or is this impossible to do and still go to heaven?
Click to expand...

Except for the Jesus part, there really is not all that much difference between a Muslim and a Southern Baptist.
 
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