Finding Religion

calamity · Jan 1, 2017

I'm not much for religion, but I have had a sense of faith for a few decades now. I call it more knowing how to relax and put things beyond my control into god's hands than I would actually believing in a god, but this is not really about me or my individual idea of faith. I just needed to throw that out there at the outset because it is somewhat pertinent with what follows.

About 10 years ago mom and dad were visiting Australia. Abut an hour before heading to the Airport, as they packed their clothes and prepared to leave the hotel room, they realized the envelope containing their passports and other valuable paperwork was missing. Dad, did his usual thing: tore the room apart, searched the car, and paced frantically trying to remember when he last had that damned envelope. Mom, dealt with it much more calmly. She called the hotel desk and put the word out that her paperwork was missing. Then she prayed.

Apparently, when dad returned to the room and saw my mom just sitting there, he flipped his lid. Said, "What the hell are you doing? Why are you not looking for our passports?"

Mom says she simply told him that she was praying. Dad probably mocked her, and then continued on with his frantic search, checking everything again, probably for a third time. When that turned fruitless, he made a deal with my mom. "If your praying works, I'll start going to church."

Fifteen minutes later the phone rang. Hotel desk apparently called the airport. Guess what? Airport lost and found had been in possession of mom and dad's passport for two weeks. They had either dropped it there or left it on the counter when they arrived. L&F was apparently waiting for someone to show up to claim it.

Well, dad honored his promise. I called today to wish them a happy new year, and they had to run after a few minutes. They were going to church. Mom says dad hasn't missed a Sunday since that day.

nota bene · Jan 1, 2017

That's a lovely story. Thank you for sharing it.

Bodi · Jan 1, 2017

calamity said:
I'm not much for religion, but I have had a sense of faith for a few decades now. I call it more knowing how to relax and put things beyond my control into god's hands than I would actually believing in a god, but this is not really about me or my individual idea of faith. I just needed to throw that out there at the outset because it is somewhat pertinent with what follows.

About 10 years ago mom and dad were visiting Australia. Abut an hour before heading to the Airport, as they packed their clothes and prepared to leave the hotel room, they realized the envelope containing their passports and other valuable paperwork was missing. Dad, did his usual thing: tore the room apart, searched the car, and paced frantically trying to remember when he last had that damned envelope. Mom, dealt with it much more calmly. She called the hotel desk and put the word out that her paperwork was missing. Then she prayed.

Apparently, when dad returned to the room and saw my mom just sitting there, he flipped his lid. Said, "What the hell are you doing? Why are you not looking for our passports?"

Mom says she simply told him that she was praying. Dad probably mocked her, and then continued on with his frantic search, checking everything again, probably for a third time. When that turned fruitless, he made a deal with my mom. "If your praying works, I'll start going to church."

Fifteen minutes later the phone rang. Hotel desk apparently called the airport. Guess what? Airport lost and found had been in possession of mom and dad's passport for two weeks. They had either dropped it there or left it on the counter when they arrived. L&F was apparently waiting for someone to show up to claim it.

Well, dad honored his promise. I called today to wish them a happy new year, and they had to run after a few minutes. They were going to church. Mom says dad hasn't missed a Sunday since that day.

Why didn't the airport contact them two weeks earlier?
They easily find out travel info then personal contact info.

_Sal · Jan 1, 2017

calamity said:
I'm not much for religion, but I have had a sense of faith for a few decades now. I call it more knowing how to relax and put things beyond my control into god's hands than I would actually believing in a god, but this is not really about me or my individual idea of faith. I just needed to throw that out there at the outset because it is somewhat pertinent with what follows.

About 10 years ago mom and dad were visiting Australia. Abut an hour before heading to the Airport, as they packed their clothes and prepared to leave the hotel room, they realized the envelope containing their passports and other valuable paperwork was missing. Dad, did his usual thing: tore the room apart, searched the car, and paced frantically trying to remember when he last had that damned envelope. Mom, dealt with it much more calmly. She called the hotel desk and put the word out that her paperwork was missing. Then she prayed.

Apparently, when dad returned to the room and saw my mom just sitting there, he flipped his lid. Said, "What the hell are you doing? Why are you not looking for our passports?"

Mom says she simply told him that she was praying. Dad probably mocked her, and then continued on with his frantic search, checking everything again, probably for a third time. When that turned fruitless, he made a deal with my mom. "If your praying works, I'll start going to church."

Fifteen minutes later the phone rang. Hotel desk apparently called the airport. Guess what? Airport lost and found had been in possession of mom and dad's passport for two weeks. They had either dropped it there or left it on the counter when they arrived. L&F was apparently waiting for someone to show up to claim it.

Well, dad honored his promise. I called today to wish them a happy new year, and they had to run after a few minutes. They were going to church. Mom says dad hasn't missed a Sunday since that day.

very nice :thumbs:

I think I'm a combo of your mum and dad

no wait...we could throw you in there too so I am a combo of all three of you

:mrgreen:

calamity · Jan 1, 2017

Bodhisattva said:
Why didn't the airport contact them two weeks earlier?
They easily find out travel info then personal contact info.

Who knows? But, knowing my mom and dad, they probably bounced around a lot and traveled all over the baby continent, staying in one place for two days tops.

soylentgreen · Jan 9, 2017

calamity said:
I'm not much for religion, but I have had a sense of faith for a few decades now. I call it more knowing how to relax and put things beyond my control into god's hands than I would actually believing in a god, but this is not really about me or my individual idea of faith. I just needed to throw that out there at the outset because it is somewhat pertinent with what follows.

About 10 years ago mom and dad were visiting Australia. Abut an hour before heading to the Airport, as they packed their clothes and prepared to leave the hotel room, they realized the envelope containing their passports and other valuable paperwork was missing. Dad, did his usual thing: tore the room apart, searched the car, and paced frantically trying to remember when he last had that damned envelope. Mom, dealt with it much more calmly. She called the hotel desk and put the word out that her paperwork was missing. Then she prayed.

Apparently, when dad returned to the room and saw my mom just sitting there, he flipped his lid. Said, "What the hell are you doing? Why are you not looking for our passports?"

Mom says she simply told him that she was praying. Dad probably mocked her, and then continued on with his frantic search, checking everything again, probably for a third time. When that turned fruitless, he made a deal with my mom. "If your praying works, I'll start going to church."

Fifteen minutes later the phone rang. Hotel desk apparently called the airport. Guess what? Airport lost and found had been in possession of mom and dad's passport for two weeks. They had either dropped it there or left it on the counter when they arrived. L&F was apparently waiting for someone to show up to claim it.

Well, dad honored his promise. I called today to wish them a happy new year, and they had to run after a few minutes. They were going to church. Mom says dad hasn't missed a Sunday since that day.

Nice story, but....

Your obviously talking about a miracle. This seems like a very domestic sort of occurrence, things get lost and found all the time. Does god also help out every time a theist looses their car keys?

... knowing my mom and dad, they probably bounced around a lot and traveled all over the baby continent,...

Also, being from down under i am curious by what you mean by "baby"continent. Age does not count but size does?

calamity · Jan 9, 2017

soylentgreen said:
Nice story, but....

Your obviously talking about a miracle. This seems like a very domestic sort of occurrence, things get lost and found all the time. Does god also help out every time a theist looses their car keys?

I certainly do not see it as a "miracle," well...except the part about the experience converting dad. Mom would call that a miracle. She's been trying to get him to church for 50 years.

Also, being from down under i am curious by what you mean by "baby"continent. Age does not count but size does?

Yeah, I was referring to size. But, come to think of it, it is also a new continent, sort of. Australia broke off from Gondwana about 60 million years ago. That's pretty recent. The rest of Gondwana: Asia, Europe and Africa; is still pretty much intact, although not firmly so.

soylentgreen · Jan 9, 2017

calamity said:
I certainly do not see it as a "miracle," well...except the part about the experience converting dad. Mom would call that a miracle. She's been trying to get him to church for 50 years.

Not a miracle? Yet you are applying the outcome to god's hands which if he performs as your mother believes, should be described as a miracle. Or do you have another definition for miracle?

I call it more knowing how to relax and put things beyond my control into god's hands than I would actually believing in a god,

As well in your story you ascribe to your mothers praying rather than the fact that she did the work of phoning not god.

Yeah, I was referring to size. But, come to think of it, it is also a new continent, sort of. Australia broke off from Gondwana about 60 million years ago. That's pretty recent. The rest of Gondwana: Asia, Europe and Africa; is still pretty much intact, although not firmly so.

Unfortunately it does not work out that way. Australia is also one of the most stablest of continents sitting in the middles of a large tectonic plate. It is also the oldest land mass in the sense of weathering. Wind and water over 60 million years and no other plate pushing or volcanoes goinng off like the other continents. What are called mountains in australia are called hills in america.

calamity · Jan 9, 2017

soylentgreen said:
Not a miracle? Yet you are applying the outcome to god's hands which if he performs as your mother believes, should be described as a miracle. Or do you have another definition for miracle?

I certainly do not believe what my mother believes. In fact I subscribe to the high likelihood of us all occasionally experiencing highly improbable events. But, one person's coincidence can definitely be another's miracle.

As well in your story you ascribe to your mothers praying rather than the fact that she did the work of phoning not god.

In my mind the real work done with prayer was finding a peaceful state of mind and not freaking out like dad is wont to do. I make that rather clear in the op.

Unfortunately it does not work out that way. Australia is also one of the most stablest of continents sitting in the middles of a large tectonic plate. It is also the oldest land mass in the sense of weathering. Wind and water over 60 million years and no other plate pushing or volcanoes goinng off like the other continents. What are called mountains in australia are called hills in america.

It's new in that it broke off from a real continent only recently.

rcfieldz · Jan 9, 2017

Sounds like a made up story by a Bible thumper...who looses their passports for weeks and doesn't realize it? If they had to use it at the airport when they landed they would not forget them there. I believe in religion and faith, just not this story.

calamity · Jan 9, 2017

rcfieldz said:
Sounds like a made up story by a Bible thumper...who looses their passports for weeks and doesn't realize it?

loses

BTW: Calling Calamity a bible thumper is sure to get a few laughs from the religious in this forum.

soylentgreen · Jan 10, 2017

calamity said:
I certainly do not believe what my mother believes. In fact I subscribe to the high likelihood of us all occasionally experiencing highly improbable events. But, one person's coincidence can definitely be another's miracle.

Is it necessary for you to share beliefs in order to agree on reason for an event? A miracle is a very common belief among nearly all those with a sense of faith. I would even go as far as saying a corner stone of belief. Making it one of those catch 22's of life.

In my mind the real work done with prayer was finding a peaceful state of mind and not freaking out like dad is wont to do. I make that rather clear in the op.

I do understand the analogy and had no comment to make on it. But if that is what works for you then all good.

However i thought about your story today and being in a stirring mood i wonder if you would mind having it drawn to your attention that this is also a tale of lies and deceit.

Mom, dealt with it much more calmly. She called the hotel desk and put the word out that her paperwork was missing......Mom says she simply told him that she was praying. ..... "If your praying works, I'll start going to church."

But she did not simply pray. She also set into motion the means of finding the documents. A fact she neglected to inform your father of. He was falsely given to believe prayer did the work. A lie by omission.
Not sure what the protocol is on calling someone's mother out, never tried that before.

No offence meant. But perhaps we should be discussing the slack morality of these christians?

It's new in that it broke off from a real continent only recently.

True, but unlike everywhere else it has had all those years to erode down with not much in the way of renewal. The land looks old and worn where as other continents have mountains from tectonic movement as well as volcanic activity.

calamity · Jan 10, 2017

soylentgreen said:
Is it necessary for you to share beliefs in order to agree on reason for an event? A miracle is a very common belief among nearly all those with a sense of faith. I would even go as far as saying a corner stone of belief. Making it one of those catch 22's of life.

I do understand the analogy and had no comment to make on it. But if that is what works for you then all good.

However i thought about your story today and being in a stirring mood i wonder if you would mind having it drawn to your attention that this is also a tale of lies and deceit.

But she did not simply pray. She also set into motion the means of finding the documents. A fact she neglected to inform your father of. He was falsely given to believe prayer did the work. A lie by omission.
Not sure what the protocol is on calling someone's mother out, never tried that before. No offence meant. But perhaps we should be discussing the slack morality of these christians?

True, but unlike everywhere else it has had all those years to erode down with not much in the way of renewal. The land looks old and worn where as other continents have mountains from tectonic movement as well as volcanic activity.

He knew she called. Not mentioning that was my omission, an inadvertent one. Both he and mom thought they may have dropped it somewhere in the hotel. It didn't dawn on them to call the airport. Hotel staff figured that one out.

I'm sure the hotel made several calls, including the other hotels they stayed at. And, my mom probably called some family members who they visited as well.

None of this is a "miracle," nor did I try painting it as one. The only miracle, per say, in a total metaphoric way, is dad suddenly at 70-plus going to church religiously every Sunday.

RetiredUSN · Jan 10, 2017

rcfieldz said:
Sounds like a made up story by a Bible thumper...who looses their passports for weeks and doesn't realize it? If they had to use it at the airport when they landed they would not forget them there. I believe in religion and faith, just not this story.

You never sat anything down in your life, and forgotten about it?

HonestJoe · Jan 10, 2017

I don’t see why you’d assume the prayer had anything to do with it. They found out where the documents where because the hotel called the airport. I personally consider attributing this kind of thing to god and insult to the people who did the actual work. I mean, I’m sure the Mom was praising God for his intervention and the Dad is going to church every Sunday (which apparently God considers important for some reason) but did either of them actually thank the desk staff?

calamity · Jan 10, 2017

RetiredUSN said:
You never sat anything down in your life, and forgotten about it?

Yeah. it's not like they needed their passport once they were in country and doing the tourist thing. It wasn't until they were getting ready to fly home that they even bothered to dig it up, and finding that their passports were missing obviously suddenly became a very serious issue.

calamity · Jan 10, 2017

HonestJoe said:
I don’t see why you’d assume the prayer had anything to do with it. They found out where the documents where because the hotel called the airport. I personally consider attributing this kind of thing to god and insult to the people who did the actual work. I mean, I’m sure the Mom was praising God for his intervention and the Dad is going to church every Sunday (which apparently God considers important for some reason) but did either of them actually thank the desk staff?

You are misunderstanding my post. I certainly did not imply that prayer had anything to do with the passports being found. My dad may think so. Or, maybe like me, he just realized that mom's way of coping with stress via prayer is not a bad way to stay calm and do something logical like call the hotel desk and let them search around and put feelers out in the country you know nothing about. It sure beats running around all frantic like and losing yourself in panic mode.

calamity · Jan 10, 2017

Ever since my ex-wife taught me the trick, I've used the prayer thing whenever I found myself to be at wits end or in a tight jam. Based on the results, it seems like a good way to dump the load. And, that this occasionally leads to the problem solving itself is not a bad thing either, I might add.

But, let's be clear. Never once did I think the prayer itself solved the problem. I figure the prayer simply helped to calm me down and allowed me to sleep and let go of the situation. Now, the fact that everything worked itself out by the time I woke up is a bit spooky--I will not deny that--but, I am quite certain that god did not intervene and send his angels down to rescue me. I am quite sure those good things would have happened anyway. But, I am certainly not going to dwell on that.

humbolt · Jan 10, 2017

soylentgreen said:
Nice story, but....

Your obviously talking about a miracle. This seems like a very domestic sort of occurrence, things get lost and found all the time. Does god also help out every time a theist looses their car keys?

You're assuming that restoring lost documents was the objective. What if the objective was to get Calamity's dad to accept a more spiritual perspective? No, I can't say either, but ruling out other ends in the resolution of the loss ignores the virtually limitless other possibilities, at least one of which was demonstrated.

polgara · Jan 10, 2017

calamity said:
I'm not much for religion, but I have had a sense of faith for a few decades now. I call it more knowing how to relax and put things beyond my control into god's hands than I would actually believing in a god, but this is not really about me or my individual idea of faith. I just needed to throw that out there at the outset because it is somewhat pertinent with what follows.

About 10 years ago mom and dad were visiting Australia. Abut an hour before heading to the Airport, as they packed their clothes and prepared to leave the hotel room, they realized the envelope containing their passports and other valuable paperwork was missing. Dad, did his usual thing: tore the room apart, searched the car, and paced frantically trying to remember when he last had that damned envelope. Mom, dealt with it much more calmly. She called the hotel desk and put the word out that her paperwork was missing. Then she prayed.

Apparently, when dad returned to the room and saw my mom just sitting there, he flipped his lid. Said, "What the hell are you doing? Why are you not looking for our passports?"

Mom says she simply told him that she was praying. Dad probably mocked her, and then continued on with his frantic search, checking everything again, probably for a third time. When that turned fruitless, he made a deal with my mom. "If your praying works, I'll start going to church."

Fifteen minutes later the phone rang. Hotel desk apparently called the airport. Guess what? Airport lost and found had been in possession of mom and dad's passport for two weeks. They had either dropped it there or left it on the counter when they arrived. L&F was apparently waiting for someone to show up to claim it.

Well, dad honored his promise. I called today to wish them a happy new year, and they had to run after a few minutes. They were going to church. Mom says dad hasn't missed a Sunday since that day.

Greetings, Calamity. :2wave:

What a great post! :thumbs: Thanks for sharing something so uplifting!

calamity · Jan 10, 2017

humbolt said:
You're assuming that restoring lost documents was the objective. What if the objective was to get Calamity's dad to accept a more spiritual perspective? No, I can't say either, but ruling out other ends in the resolution of the loss ignores the virtually limitless other possibilities, at least one of which was demonstrated.

Yep. That's what I took from it. And, I have to say, I give my dad a lot of credit for honoring his word. I know how he used to feel about that church stuff. I can't wait to sit down with him and discuss all this over a few beers later this year.

humbolt · Jan 10, 2017

calamity said:
Yep. That's what I took from it. And, I have to say, I give my dad a lot of credit for honoring his word. I know how he used to feel about that church stuff. I can't wait to sit down with him and discuss all this over a few beers later this year.

I bet it will be an interesting and worthwhile discussion, too. Sometimes these events are so personal in nature they can be difficult to explain and therefore extremely difficult to discuss. Given that it's your parents here, it should be easier. A few beers might help a little.

blackjack50 · Jan 10, 2017

HonestJoe said:
I don’t see why you’d assume the prayer had anything to do with it. They found out where the documents where because the hotel called the airport. I personally consider attributing this kind of thing to god and insult to the people who did the actual work. I mean, I’m sure the Mom was praising God for his intervention and the Dad is going to church every Sunday (which apparently God considers important for some reason) but did either of them actually thank the desk staff?

Why do you have to be upset that they prayed? Why do you have to be "insulted" that they attributed it to God? Why not just accept this as it is...a good story that brought someone closer to God, and potentially brought a family closer together. Is that last thing worthy of the shame train? Come on.

Don't worry. Be happy.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

soylentgreen · Jan 10, 2017

humbolt said:
You're assuming that restoring lost documents was the objective. What if the objective was to get Calamity's dad to accept a more spiritual perspective? No, I can't say either, but ruling out other ends in the resolution of the loss ignores the virtually limitless other possibilities, at least one of which was demonstrated.

That would be even worse, would it not. In that case the mother not only applied deceit but deliberately conspired to deceive. One begins to wonder what unethical behaviour a christian will get up to in order to convert someone if this story passes as a good one among christians. I wonder if jesus lied in order to get people to follow him?

rcfieldz · Jan 10, 2017

RetiredUSN said:
You never sat anything down in your life, and forgotten about it?

Only been a victim of a pick pocket.

Finding Religion

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