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The Politics of the Evangelical Right, and Their Very Public Sin[W258]

Sorry, I'll take Paul over your word on that.

Your comment makes no sense ? I have no idea what you are saying here.

Do you think that Paul really meant that we should submit to the Hitler's, Pol Pot's, every other genocidal dictator in the world ?

Do you think that Paul really meant that all of these death squad/genocidal dictators serving God in every instance ?
 

Your post does not address what Paul says and I said this to you before so you are wandering around in a circle of denial.

If the government is an "agent of wrath" against an evildoer, and the evildoer is, say, ISIS

Paul does is not referring to just this specific case. Paul is talking about all Gov't authorities ... many of which are agents of wrath on their own people... innocent civilians. You really need to upgrade your logic skills .. Mr. Logicman

So once again:

Do you think that Paul really meant that we should submit to the Hitler's, Pol Pot's, every other genocidal dictator in the world ?

Do you think that Paul really meant that all of these death squad/genocidal dictators are serving God in every instance ?
 
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The highest qualities that God's wisdom can produce in man is submission, obedience, and faith. The Fruit of the Spirit does not contain violence.

On the contrary, the highest qualities are compassion and charity, and the use of intelligence.
 
Why is your theology in the toilet? Show me where Jesus said his followers should not be involved in government or the military?

Old Testament models for serving in the government to do good include Joseph and Daniel, among others.

In addition, have you never read Romans 13?

"Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong.... 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer."

People who want a good government should not be voting for liberals, with their illicit gay marriage, abortion and partial-birth abortion, forced redistribution of wealth (greed and covetousness for other people's money rather than exercising personal initiative and responsibility and earning it one's self), ILLEGAL immigration, deficit spending / indebtedness, etc.




Best post you've ever made as best I recall... kudos.
 
The Politics of the Evangelical Right, and Their Very Public Sin



I used this article as a backdrop for the topic of this thread:
Born Again Christians have No Business Being Involved in Law, Politics, or War

Believers were called to spread the good news of eternal life in Christ, not impose God's Law upon a lost world, entangle themselves in the politick and cares of this world, or kill others in conquest of treasures and trade routes for the rich.

First of all, your backdrop article is misinformed.

In short: as long as Donald Trump opposes abortion and gays, he can grope whomever he likes.



It's all about the policy that's being promoted, not the personal sins of the leader.
The Christian has to vote for the policy that reflects Christian values (Biblical teachings). So yes, it's our duty to choose a leader that will impose God's laws, and who'll do what's righteous before God.

Nations and peoples have been punished by God in the OT for having chosen an unrighteous leader.




Do you really believe that Jesus would pick up a machine gun to fight for the stupid **** we're fighting for? Or lead a (R) party committee to draft legislation to make it unlawful to sin? WTF is wrong with you?


Calm down. Who's picking up a machine gun?

And fyi, we've already got laws that makes it unlawful to commit the sin of murder, or the sin of stealing, or the sin of slander.


And yes, if a Christian truly wants to follow his conscience in this election - he can never support Hillary Clinton.
To support Hillary Clinton's policy in the name of Christianity, would not only be hypocritical, but also.......misleading.
 
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I'm born again.

So, between the governments that would be headed by Trump and Hillary - which do you think is in-lined with Biblical teachings?

We should do an analysis about this.....a separate thread would be good.
 
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So, between the governments that would be headed by Trump and Hillary - which do you think is in-lined with Biblical teachings?

It's irrelevant. We've been given no instruction to go out and govern the lost. We're not of this world. This is not our home.
 
On the contrary, the highest qualities are compassion and charity, and the use of intelligence.

Compassion and charity emanate from God's love, mercy, and grace. Wisdom (the quality of having experience, knowledge, and good judgment) lead one to acknowledge that it is GOD alone who is wise and holds all wisdom. Therefore, our WISE response is submission, obedience, and faith. Wisdom is kneeling before God.
 
So yes, it's our duty to choose a leader that will impose God's laws

I disagree. We are no longer under the law, but grace. Our job is to spread the gospel, not impose Mosaic law.

Calm down. Who's picking up a machine gun?

The US military. against civilians, children, elderly, and infirm.

And fyi, we've already got laws that makes it unlawful to commit the sin of murder, or the sin of stealing, or the sin of slander.

And yes, if a Christian truly wants to follow his conscience in this election

Following one's conscience is to follow the flesh using logic, problem solving, deduction, etc. whereas following Christ by the power of the Spirit is submission and obedience.

It's a question of Who is making decisions. Who is in control.
 
Compassion and charity emanate from God's love, mercy, and grace. Wisdom (the quality of having experience, knowledge, and good judgment) lead one to acknowledge that it is GOD alone who is wise and holds all wisdom. Therefore, our WISE response is submission, obedience, and faith. Wisdom is kneeling before God.

Submission does not make you wise. The Jewish faith has a concept known as 'wrestling with God'. It comes from the story about Jacob, who wrestled an angel. It is the confrontation and engagement with God that makes man rise above the mundane. Do what is right,.. not what you are told.
 
Submission does not make you wise.

That's not what I wrote - our WISE response is submission

The Jewish faith has a concept known as 'wrestling with God'. It comes from the story about Jacob, who wrestled an angel. It is the confrontation and engagement with God that makes man rise above the mundane.

Yeah, Jacob "the deceiver", Joseph, and 400 years of bondage. many, many lessons and such there.

Do what is right,.. not what you are told.

Doing what's right is not our nature, but Christs'. With His Word, by the Spirit, in Christ we submit empty vessels. The work is the Lord's; not ours.
And yes, we do as the Lord instructs us.
 
That's not what I wrote - our WISE response is submission



Yeah, Jacob "the deceiver", Joseph, and 400 years of bondage. many, many lessons and such there.



Doing what's right is not our nature, but Christs'. With His Word, by the Spirit, in Christ we submit empty vessels. The work is the Lord's; not ours.
And yes, we do as the Lord instructs us.

Submission is not wise. Engagement is.
 
It's irrelevant. We've been given no instruction to go out and govern the lost. We're not of this world. This is not our home.

We were not instructed NOT to govern the lost!
In fact, Biblical references would show that God did put kings on this earth to govern the lost.....or punish those that had chosen to be lost!


No it's not irrelevant. You brought up that article and Trump, and you rebuke those who support Trump.

Yes, we are here temporarily, but while we're here in this world - we've been commissioned to spread the Gospel.

And we are instructed to obey and go by the government of the land. We are instructed to obey authority.

The system of this nation is democratic.
People are expected to vote in order to determine the leader of the nation. That's our duty as citizens of this nation!

We are instructed to do our duties as citizens of this nation. And since we're fortunate to have a say in how the nation will be governed.....it is our Christian duty to choose a leader who'll uphold Christian values.


The President is the "king" of this nation. With the USA, he's even more than just president since he's also considered a World Leader.
Choosing a President whose platform is in-lined with Christian values......is the best thing that could happen to a nation.

It is our duty to pray for our leader(s) that they may keep focus in upholding Christian values.
 
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I disagree. We are no longer under the law, but grace. Our job is to spread the gospel, not impose Mosaic law.

You are confused.

If we are instructed to obey the government of the nation - then, being citizens of the USA, you are instructed to do your duty in selecting the leader of this land. As a Christian, you'd have to choose a brother in Christ who'll uphold Christ's teachings. That, is, spreading the gospel!!!

Are you saying you'd just stand by, and watch a leader who promotes Satan's agenda to become leader without any resistance at all.....and even influence other Christians to just let it happen, when you've got a God-given duty to do what is only righteous - by exercising your right to vote for the leader of this nation?





The US military. against civilians, children, elderly, and infirm.





Following one's conscience is to follow the flesh using logic, problem solving, deduction, etc. whereas following Christ by the power of the Spirit is submission and obedience.

It's a question of Who is making decisions. Who is in control.[/QUOTE]
 
I got cut off by time. The post above includes quotes from schisms.


Originally Posted by Schism View Post
Following one's conscience is to follow the flesh using logic, problem solving, deduction, etc. whereas following Christ by the power of the Spirit is submission and obedience.

It's a question of Who is making decisions. Who is in control.




Careful, brother. Conscience is not all that.....and logic is also used by Satan to get us to suppress or ignore our conscience.

Though God is in control at all times, we are given free will to make our choices. We can choose to listen to the Holy Spirit in His guidance to right and wrong....or we can choose to keep ignoring....... and deaden our conscience.


For some explanation about conscience, this is an interesting read:



A Biblical Theology of the Human Conscience
https://graceuniversity.edu/iip/2011/11/11-11-05-1/
 
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The US military. against civilians, children, elderly, and infirm.


We are allowed to go to war. In fact, we're supposed to rescue those that are vulnerable and helpless.

I came across a verse when I was discussing abortion, and the verse also supports going to war and capital punishment.
It's God's covenant with Noah.


Genesis 9
5 And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal.
And from each human being, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of another human being.

6
“Whoever sheds human blood,
by humans shall their blood be shed;

for in the image of God
has God made mankind.





Seeing how life of another human being is so valued in God's eyes......

By Trump's policy on abortion alone, is voting for Trump, justified!
In fact, to a Christian, it is a must!
 
You are confused.

If we are instructed to obey the government of the nation - then, being citizens of the USA, you are instructed to do your duty in selecting the leader of this land. As a Christian, you'd have to choose a brother in Christ who'll uphold Christ's teachings. That, is, spreading the gospel!!!

From your previous posts it's obvious that you're a loyal patriot who loves flag, duty, and country. I totally understand. I've seen the dynamics of Independent Bible, Baptist, and Evangelical churches become more and more based on love for the United States and it's attempts to force a 'Christian Utopia' on the nation - I guess it's the good Taliban? . It wasn't until I served as a missionary overseas that the Lord showed me how I had been deceived all along. It wasn't until I worshipped with believers in closed countries that I discovered that what most US churches have become are religious-patriotic social clubs that mold doctrine and theology into justifying the projection of US military power over the rest of the world.

The govt is a corrupted nest of money changers and deviants using the power of the bomb to further line their pockets. We have no business promoting, supporting, or furthering their causes.

you are instructed to do your duty in selecting the leader of this land

LOL. God hasn't instructed you any such thing. You've deduced that from circular logic-doctrine. Go ahead...start asking the Holy Spirit about it. Then wait until the Lord speaks to you.

1 John 2:27New King James Version (NKJV)

27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will[a] abide in Him.

I challenge you to be honest with yourself. Are you a pastor-follower? Have you boxed God into dogmatic theology? Again, ask the Spirit and wait.
 
We are allowed to go to war.

We're allowed to do alot of things. It doesn't mean they're right, good, or God's will.

How does killing another person advance the good news of eternal life in Christ? What's the difference between Delta Force and Samaritan's Purse?
 
Have you boxed God into dogmatic theology?

Just curious, but do you understand what you wrote? If so, explain it to me because it doesn't make much sense.
 
From your previous posts it's obvious that you're a loyal patriot who loves flag, duty, and country. I totally understand. I've seen the dynamics of Independent Bible, Baptist, and Evangelical churches become more and more based on love for the United States and it's attempts to force a 'Christian Utopia' on the nation - I guess it's the good Taliban? . It wasn't until I served as a missionary overseas that the Lord showed me how I had been deceived all along. It wasn't until I worshipped with believers in closed countries that I discovered that what most US churches have become are religious-patriotic social clubs that mold doctrine and theology into justifying the projection of US military power over the rest of the world.

The govt is a corrupted nest of money changers and deviants using the power of the bomb to further line their pockets. We have no business promoting, supporting, or furthering their causes.



LOL. God hasn't instructed you any such thing. You've deduced that from circular logic-doctrine. Go ahead...start asking the Holy Spirit about it. Then wait until the Lord speaks to you.



I challenge you to be honest with yourself. Are you a pastor-follower? Have you boxed God into dogmatic theology? Again, ask the Spirit and wait.

Corruption will always be in government(s). It's the amount of corruption - that's the issue.

Anyway, you've got your own opinion about patriotism and all that - that's the way you choose to see my view, even though I'd already shown you that it's Biblical that we obey the authority of the land.

The system in the USA requires citizens to choose the leader. It's a duty - whether you're simply a patriot, or a Christian.
 
I challenge you to be honest with yourself. Are you a pastor-follower? Have you boxed God into dogmatic theology? Again, ask the Spirit and wait.

Be thankful that you're under Democratic rule.

You don't need a pastor to tell you that we're instructed by the Bible to obey authority.
It is written.
 
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We're allowed to do alot of things. It doesn't mean they're right, good, or God's will.

Only God knows what's in people's heart. Only God can judge.
 
Just curious, but do you understand what you wrote? If so, explain it to me because it doesn't make much sense.

I thought he was saying that some anthropomorphize God?
 
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