Forgiveness

Ancient Herald said:

it's not right to talk smack about people, especially if they don't deserve it.

And she really doesn't deserve it.

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Don't repeat what you hear! Just let it go. Or.....if you feel so strongly about it, then why don't you speak out for her instead?
Leave her out of it! You'll do more help leaving her out of it, and not passing any information about that guy!

The lady will have a hard time moving on if you keep passing on to her what the guy is saying behind her back!
That's like stoking the embers, or pulling off the scab!


This, becomes about you....instead of her. Stop passing gossips, is what comes to my mind. And, it's not your business anymore.

Ancient Herald said:

I don't really get forgiveness.

I've been told that forgiveness is more about freeing yourself from the hurt and the pain that someone caused you than actually forgiving them.

Because you see, i have a friend who has been hurting over the way another friend has treated her for nearly ten year.s Essentially put, he emotionally abused her and shamed and smeared her every chance he got (btw this is NOT me), and no matter how much reason and logic she used, no matter how much begging and pleading with him to stop it, well, him being an alpha male just could not understand how he was hurting her.

Eventually she broke off the friendship when she realized that was right about him. he will never understand, and being an alpha male, will always hurt you because he thinks he is doing nothing wrong.

Ten years later, she still fees the hurt he made her feel, and he still talks smack about her behind her back.

She's forgiven him, but the pain doesn't go away and he will never change.

So this has left me confused about forgiveness. What good is it if it never really heals the pain?

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She's been mulling over something that happened 10 years ago? Harping about it is what continues the pain, and it won't undo what has happened.
My advice for what it's worth...
Check it off as part of life, learn from it and move on.

Ancient Herald said:

I don't really get forgiveness.

I've been told that forgiveness is more about freeing yourself from the hurt and the pain that someone caused you than actually forgiving them.

Because you see, i have a friend who has been hurting over the way another friend has treated her for nearly ten year.s Essentially put, he emotionally abused her and shamed and smeared her every chance he got (btw this is NOT me), and no matter how much reason and logic she used, no matter how much begging and pleading with him to stop it, well, him being an alpha male just could not understand how he was hurting her.

Eventually she broke off the friendship when she realized that was right about him. he will never understand, and being an alpha male, will always hurt you because he thinks he is doing nothing wrong.

Ten years later, she still fees the hurt he made her feel, and he still talks smack about her behind her back.

She's forgiven him, but the pain doesn't go away and he will never change.

So this has left me confused about forgiveness. What good is it if it never really heals the pain?

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I 'get it' in a theoretical way, but how to actually, mechanically do it, I have no idea.

Ancient Herald said:

It's tiresome being insulted and berated all the time.

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You cannot be insulted and berated unless you give permission.

Risky Thicket said:

You cannot be insulted and berated unless you give permission.

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ah, and here in lies a little gem of wisdom, you are correct, another does not "hurt" us in an ongoing way unless we participate, once we no longer participate, it's over

it really is that simple

_Sal said:

ah, and here in lies a little gem of wisdom, you are correct, another does not "hurt" us in an ongoing way unless we participate, once we no longer participate, it's over

it really is that simple

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Those people, who do not 'participate' in life with others, are called hermits.

Jerry said:

Those people, who do not 'participate' in life with others, are called hermits.

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that too is true, yes there are hermits and they choose to have little to do with others for a variety of reasons

do you view people who choose not to participate in allowing themselves to be victimized as hermits Jerry?

_Sal said:

that too is true, yes there are hermits and they choose to have little to do with others for a variety of reasons

do you view people who choose not to participate in allowing themselves to be victimized as hermits Jerry?

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I am one such person, to the degree that even the Army doesn't know where I actually lay my head to sleep.

Jerry said:

I am one such person, to the degree that even the Army doesn't know where I actually lay my head to sleep.

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I know a few people like that who have for various reasons at various times removed themselves from the grid. Before I had contact with anyone like that I thought only people who were anti-social would do so, but that simply isn't true.

I don't think I personally would cope well with that. However as I age I would certainly cope better with it than I would when I was younger.

How long have you been removed? Of course you don't have to answer that.

_Sal said:

I know a few people like that who have for various reasons at various times removed themselves from the grid. Before I had contact with anyone like that I thought only people who were anti-social would do so, but that simply isn't true.

I don't think I personally would cope well with that. However as I age I would certainly cope better with it than I would when I was younger.

How long have you been removed? Of course you don't have to answer that.

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3 years, since I deployed. While my body is back in the states, and I leave the service soon, upstairs I am still deployed.

Connecting to good people with halfway decent lives just rubes my own problems in my face, and so I choose not to participate. My co-workers might say I'm impersonal in that I don't care to banter about the home life. I get along best with co-workers who like to discuss impersonal things like the news and internet memes.

Jerry said:

3 years, since I deployed. While my body is back in the states, and I leave the service soon, upstairs I am still deployed.

Connecting to good people with halfway decent lives just rubes my own problems in my face, and so I choose not to participate.

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Yes, I have heard that comment from someone else. It took him three years just to comfortably walk down the street without being hyper alert.

I hope that you will find some peace as time goes by. It must be a difficult transition. I don't think it helps that many people neither know or care to know what deployment can and often does do to a human being.

I have heard they are having success with some service people by connecting them with rescued wolves.

Guess there is some type of affinity there.

Jerry said:

Those people, who do not 'participate' in life with others, are called hermits.

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No one said anything about not participating in life at all. Just not with jerks who abuse you.

There are plenty of non-abusive people with whom one can participate in life.

SmokeAndMirrors said:

No one said anything about not participating in life at all. Just not with jerks who abuse you.

There are plenty of non-abusive people with whom one can participate in life.

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I find that when it comes to some people, .. when they complain about their circumstances, wherever they go, there they are. NO matter how far they go , they can never get away from themselves.

nota bene said:

Whenever I say the "Our Father" and reach the line "And forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us," I think to myself that what we really, really want, if we're completely honest, is to be forgiven a whole lot more than we've been able to forgive. :3oops:

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That is interesting. I remember before my First Communion, when we were all learning this, I was scared about the forgiving others part. In some cases, it has taken years for me to forgive people. I tried harder to forget rather than forgive, but that wasn't enough.

Goshin also made some fine posts about this.

nota bene said:

Whenever I say the "Our Father" and reach the line "And forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us," I think to myself that what we really, really want, if we're completely honest, is to be forgiven a whole lot more than we've been able to forgive. :3oops:

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Yes, but sweetie, our loving Father knows this and He heals us so we can forgive. There is so much in Scripture warning about allowing a root of bitterness to form and sometimes the hurt is so great it can't be healed without His touch.

RAMOSS said:

I find that when it comes to some people, .. when they complain about their circumstances, wherever they go, there they are. NO matter how far they go , they can never get away from themselves.

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Could it be a lot of times these people no matter where they go they carry baggage with them that God wanted to lift them from the burden if only they would ask of Him?

vesper said:

Could it be a lot of times these people no matter where they go they carry baggage with them that God wanted to lift them from the burden if only they would ask of Him?

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Or, it could be they haven't forgiven themselves enough to ask God for forgiveness.

RAMOSS said:

Or, it could be they haven't forgiven themselves enough to ask God for forgiveness.

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You know Ramoss that is very true. God forgives yet so many can't forgive themselves. They lift up their pain/shame in one hand to Him and hold onto it with their other.
It takes releasing it with both hands.

vesper said:

You know Ramoss that is very true. God forgives yet so many can't forgive themselves. They lift up their pain/shame in one hand to Him and hold onto it with their other.
It takes releasing it with both hands.

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This is such a great post. Thank you for sharing it.

vesper said:

Could it be a lot of times these people no matter where they go they carry baggage with them that God wanted to lift them from the burden if only they would ask of Him?

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"oh what joys we often forfeit... oh what sorrows needless bear... all because we do not carry, everything to God in prayer..."

Goshin said:

"oh what joys we often forfeit... oh what sorrows needless bear... all because we do not carry, everything to God in prayer..."

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That's very true Goshin, but sometimes the burden is so great that no matter how hard we want to we can't without his help. You got time for a true story? If so continue reading.

I have a beautiful brother. A rock some would describe him in the Lord. His first wife had an affair with the pastor of music in a church we were all attending. I watched two families destroyed at that time and watched the congregation of the church be shaken to its foundation. He forgave her and they went on for a number of years and went to a new church. At the new church which happened to be one of the biggest congregations in our town, she had an affair with the pastor at that church.. At At that point I quit going to church and brother filed for divorce. The pastor divorced his wife and the two of them got married. His ex and the ex-pastor did everything they could to turn the kids (hers and his) against their ex-spouses. It was at one such time when I was praying for my brother and had no words just tears a voice took over in a language I did not understand but afterwards I felt comfort even though I could not forgive them. Later an opportunity arose for my brother to rebuild a relationship with his kids. He called and asked me to pray for the meeting with his son. I started to pray and this heaviness started pressing down on me that it forced me to lay down. I continued to pray and my chest felt very heavy. I saw visions of all the children involved, torn between parents and a gentle voice told me the need to forgive. At that point I was healed of my hate. Ten minutes later the phone rang and it was my brother telling me what a wonderful visit he had with his son and the healing had begun. And you know after that incident my chest hurt for days. Maybe as if a root of bitterness had been extracted from it....praise the Lord.

vesper said:

You know Ramoss that is very true. God forgives yet so many can't forgive themselves. They lift up their pain/shame in one hand to Him and hold onto it with their other.
It takes releasing it with both hands.

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I talked with a pastor many years ago about a grave sin I had committed, and he told me that he thought the instant one is genuinely remorseful and repentant, God forgets. But I wouldn't let go--all the "How can I ever forgive myself?" stuff--and this pastor actually became indignant with me. Expressed astonishment at my arrogance at essentially telling God that His forgiveness isn't good enough for me.

I don't think I've ever quite gotten over the shock of realizing just what he was saying to me--that I apparently thought I was more god than God.

nota bene said:

I talked with a pastor many years ago about a grave sin I had committed, and he told me that he thought the instant one is genuinely remorseful and repentant, God forgets. But I wouldn't let go--all the "How can I ever forgive myself?" stuff--and this pastor actually became indignant with me. Expressed astonishment at my arrogance at essentially telling God that His forgiveness isn't good enough for me.

I don't think I've ever quite gotten over the shock of realizing just what he was saying to me--that I apparently thought I was more god than God.

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I love you Nota, truly I do.

nota bene said:

I talked with a pastor many years ago about a grave sin I had committed, and he told me that he thought the instant one is genuinely remorseful and repentant, God forgets. But I wouldn't let go--all the "How can I ever forgive myself?" stuff--and this pastor actually became indignant with me. Expressed astonishment at my arrogance at essentially telling God that His forgiveness isn't good enough for me.

I don't think I've ever quite gotten over the shock of realizing just what he was saying to me--that I apparently thought I was more god than God.

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Then, of course, there is the opposite side of the coin.. . .. and that is assuming that you are going to be forgiven by god, so you don't properly repent and feel sorry for your own actions. Either is not good for the person, but assuming you will be forgiven without modifying your own behavior is not good for those around them either.

I think it's also important to realize that forgiving and excusing are two different things. You can forgive without excusing. I forgave a woman a few months ago for something and don't plan on ever talking to her again, and it's not out of bitterness but because there's nothing about her that tells me she wouldn't do it again.