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Go Pope!

phattonez said:
For abortion it is just as simple. This is why priests were granted the faculty to lift the excommunication in most dioceses in the US.
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But that's only an indulgence for the Jubilee year.
 
phattonez said:
No that has been true in the US for decades as far as I know.
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Ok, that seems correct, as far as the bishops are able to delegate this authority to priests, it seems that this is typically done in the US.
 
phattonez said:
And what bishop is not going to forgive someone who's wants confession and is repentant?
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It took Sisten aren't exactly "enlightened". If you're a woman who gets excommunicated for abortion in Colombia, you will more than likely remain excommunicated for the rest of your life. And in most diocese in the US even the priests were granted the faculty to lift the excommunication since that was more expedient. So what is the problem here?[/QUOTE]
That's good and dandy, but the US isn't the only place where Catholics exist. t's a problem for all Catholics all over the world. Just because some priests may offer a fast-track absolution does not mean it's not a problem everywhere else. It took Sister Margret McBride two years to lift an excommunication for allowing the abortion of a pregnancy of a woman who would not have survived it. And that was only because of a fairly sizable backlash and protest for it. It's even worse in Latin America, where views toward women aren't exactly "enlightened". If you're a woman who gets excommunicated for abortion in, say, Colombia, you will more than likely remain excommunicated for the rest of your life. Things aren't as easy as you make them sound.
 
Guy Incognito said:
That's not really true of Buddhism outside of Zen, and although there is a tremendous diversity of belief within the various Buddhist traditions, within each tradition is are clearly orthodox cosmological teachings on the ordering of the physical universe, the nature of the soul, the various planes of existence and afterlife, the various divinities, buddhas and bodhisattvas. And even within the Zen/Chan tradition some schools of thought are extremely doctrinaire. It is pretty dismissive to write all off as syncretization and hodge podge. Being unable to grasp the complexities and nuances of Buddhist orthodoxies doesn't mean they aren't there. This is a pretty offensive stereotype about Buddhism that has its roots in orientialism.
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I believe we've had this discussion before. I'll leave it that we disagree on much - especially on the idea of Buddhist orthodoxy.
 
Renae said:
As a Catholic, and from a Catholic family, I can no one I know likes him in the least.
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You can what?

I was in Lourdes a few weeks ago. In a marquee near to the grotto they were showing a speech by the pope on a big screen. He seemed to be going down very well with the faithful there.
 
Andalublue said:
You can what?

I was in Lourdes a few weeks ago. In a marquee near to the grotto they were showing a speech by the pope on a big screen. He seemed to be going down very well with the faithful there.
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Think of, sorry getting sick, seriously. Son sounds like a grog and mah head 'sploding.
 
Andalublue said:
You can what?

I was in Lourdes a few weeks ago. In a marquee near to the grotto they were showing a speech by the pope on a big screen. He seemed to be going down very well with the faithful there.
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Pope Francis is evidently facing a mounting conservative rebellion at the Vatican

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/wo...itionalists/dI76341Wsoemd5Rna6s2tI/story.html

Pope faces mass uprising over divorce and gays | The Times

He's pushing an agenda that doesn't sit well with all. My family is fairly conservative and do not approve of his, world view.
 
Andalublue said:
I believe we've had this discussion before. I'll leave it that we disagree on much - especially on the idea of Buddhist orthodoxy.
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I'm not sure that we have. Anyway, it's not really up to you or me, it's up to the hundreds of millions of Buddhists who adhere to fairly rigid doctrines in their religious beliefs.:shrug:
 
Renae said:
Pope Francis is evidently facing a mounting conservative rebellion at the Vatican

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/wo...itionalists/dI76341Wsoemd5Rna6s2tI/story.html

Pope faces mass uprising over divorce and gays | The Times

He's pushing an agenda that doesn't sit well with all. My family is fairly conservative and do not approve of his, world view.
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You said you're Catholic? How could you possibly not approve of the Holy Father's "worldview"? Are you a schismatic?
 
Guy Incognito said:
I'm not sure that we have. Anyway, it's not really up to you or me, it's up to the hundreds of millions of Buddhists who adhere to fairly rigid doctrines in their religious beliefs.:shrug:
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Well, I follow the teachings of the Lord Buddha, have done for 13 years now, so I'll draw my own conclusions based on the teachings I receive from my Zen Master, my meditation practice, and from the scriptures.
 
I know what it means, and if you're genuinely curious, I think you should Google and find a source that you deem reliable.
 
Andalublue said:
I believe we've had this discussion before. I'll leave it that we disagree on much - especially on the idea of Buddhist orthodoxy.
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Guy Incognito said:
I'm not sure that we have. Anyway, it's not really up to you or me, it's up to the hundreds of millions of Buddhists who adhere to fairly rigid doctrines in their religious beliefs.:shrug:
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As with Andy I also don't necessarily agree with your opinion regarding "hundreds of millions of Buddhists who adhere to fairly rigid doctrines in their religious beliefs." What are the fairly rigid doctrines to which hundreds of millions Buddhists adhere?
 
SlevinKelevra said:
white flag noted.
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A white flag symbolizes surrender. There is no surrender here, only a refusal to be an enabler in the face of a lack of intellectual curiosity.

Curiosity is the wick in the candle of learning (William Arthur Ward).
 
nota bene said:
You don't appear to understand this concept. It doesn't mean everything a pope thinks or says.
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SlevinKelevra said:
explain, with citation, what you think it means.
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Nota bene is absolutely correct, no citation is required. Papal infallibility only applies to matters of doctrine. Popes are not infallible with respect to, say, their ideas about science or matters of taste.
 
Risky Thicket said:
As with Andy I also don't necessarily agree with your opinion regarding "hundreds of millions of Buddhists who adhere to fairly rigid doctrines in their religious beliefs." What are the fairly rigid doctrines to which hundreds of millions Buddhists adhere?
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Really, this idea that Buddhism is a mushy, undefined and nondogmatic is a Western misconception that is extremely offensive. It is an ignorant strand of orientalism that persists in American notions of Buddhism, and it is simply wrong.

Off the to of my hear, Pure Land is an extremely popular Buddhist school that has vivid and detailed doctrines about the afterlife. Tibetan Buddhists have a very well defined doctrine of reincarnation as to important religious leaders. There are dozens of different schools of Buddhism and virtually all of them have complex cosmologies and doctrines. The Rinzai school of Zen that eschews doctrines is the exception within Buddhism, not the norm as many ignorant Westerners seem to think.
 
Guy Incognito said:
Really, this idea that Buddhism is a mushy, undefined and nondogmatic is a Western misconception that is extremely offensive. It is an ignorant strand of orientalism that persists in American notions of Buddhism, and it is simply wrong.
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Interesting and telling that you equate non-dogmatic with 'mushy' or 'undefined'. None of those three words are remotely synonymous and nor do any of them infer or predicate the others.

And to whom do you believe your non-sequiturs might be offensive, even if they were...erm...sequiturs? Whose Buddhist integrity do you believe is under threat from westerners practicing Buddhism?

I can guarantee you that my notions of Buddhism have been very scantily informed by American notions. I first practiced in Thailand, later in the UK and most recently under a French Master in a Zen centre in southern Spain affiliated to a Japanese-Australian school. I've read a few American authors on Buddhist topics, but then I've read material by Japanese, Chinese, Thai, Tibetan, Vietnamese, Khmer, British, French, Swiss...well, you get the picture.

Your concern seems a little misplaced and your outrage, if I may say, more than a touch confected.
 
Andalublue said:
Interesting and telling that you equate non-dogmatic with 'mushy' or 'undefined'. None of those three words are remotely synonymous and nor do any of them infer or predicate the others.
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Yes, these are synonyms. Buddhism is not "nondogmatic."

And to whom do you believe your non-sequiturs might be offensive, even if they were...erm...sequiturs? Whose Buddhist integrity do you believe is under threat from westerners practicing Buddhism?
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Westerner adaptations of Buddhism are all well and good, but don't try to say that "Buddhism is non-dogmatic." Maybe your version is, but that pays short shrift to the cherished dogmas of millions upon millions of the Buddhists whose culture you are appropriating when you make such an unfounded claim.

I'll get to the rest later.
 
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