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Is the tendency to do good part of our souls?

American

American

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"Egoism, in a broader sense, has been... presented as the source of moral action. It has been said that we feed the hungry, clothe the naked, bind up the wounds of the man beaten by thieves, pour oil and wine into them, set him on our own beast and bring him to the inn, because we receive ourselves pleasure from these acts... These good acts give us pleasure, but how happens it that they give us pleasure? Because nature hath implanted in our breasts a love of others, a sense of duty to them, a moral instinct, in short, which prompts us irresistibly to feel and to succor their distresses... The Creator would indeed have been a bungling artist had he intended man for a social animal without planting in him social dispositions. It is true they are not planted in every man, because there is no rule without exceptions; but it is false reasoning which converts exceptions into the general rule."
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--Thomas Jefferson to Thomas Law, 1814. ME 14:141

Jeremiah 31:31-34

31
“The days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah.

32
It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to[a] them,” declares the Lord.

33
“This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time,” declares the Lord. “I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.

34
No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’ because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest,” declares the Lord. “For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.”
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American said:
--Thomas Jefferson to Thomas Law, 1814. ME 14:141

Jeremiah 31:31-34
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I would tend to believe that over a couple of million years of evolution social animals develop ingrained behavior patterns that make it easier for groups to survive. We find this in many higher species. And chimps tend only to kill, when it is worth it.
 
joG said:
I would tend to believe that over a couple of million years of evolution social animals develop ingrained behavior patterns that make it easier for groups to survive. We find this in many higher species. And chimps tend only to kill, when it is worth it.
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Did you not understand that this was a religious question?
 
American said:
Did you not understand that this was a religious question?
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I said, I believe it, didn't I? I mean, I might be wrong. That is the snag with beliefs. You never know, if a trait evolved, was intelligently designed or the whole process is a complex and planned undertaking. ;)
 
joG said:
I said, I believe it, didn't I? I mean, I might be wrong. That is the snag with beliefs. You never know, if a trait evolved, was intelligently designed or the whole process is a complex and planned undertaking. ;)
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You brought evolution into a thread in which I was talking about the soul. Why?
 
American said:
You brought evolution into a thread in which I was talking about the soul. Why?
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Well, you are assuming one can't believe in evolution AND the soul...

I do...
 
American said:
You brought evolution into a thread in which I was talking about the soul. Why?
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I had understood it to be about empathy, which is a soul type of thing I guess.
 
celticwar17 said:
Well, you are assuming one can't believe in evolution AND the soul...

I do...
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You are assuming that my question wasn't specific enough, which it was.
 
American said:
You are assuming that my question wasn't specific enough, which it was.
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No,

The answer to the question... would be a NO, I think we got such things from evolution. I don't think a soul has an ego, it doesn't have pride... I don't think it does much one way or the other as far as good or bad choices... I think our consciousness does that, and How our consciousness interacts with our physical body.
 
celticwar17 said:
No,

The answer to the question... would be a NO, I think we got such things from evolution. I don't think a soul has an ego, it doesn't have pride... I don't think it does much one way or the other as far as good or bad choices... I think our consciousness does that, and How our consciousness interacts with our physical body.
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You realize you're in the religious forum, correct?
 
American said:
You realize you're in the religious forum, correct?
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I am.... What does that have anything to do with it? What am I doing/saying that is not appropriate in this thread or forum?

Just because I believe in evolution does not mean I am not religious/spiritual. You asked your question, and I gave my opinion and answer.
 
celticwar17 said:
They are NOT mutually exclusive...
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So when are you going to add something to the thread, instead of arguing with me? I think you just came here to derail the thread, and never had any intention to add anything.
 
American said:
So when are you going to add something to the thread, instead of arguing with me? I think you just came here to derail the thread, and never had any intention to add anything.
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I told you my thoughts and opinions on the matter... you say it's not "adding" anything to the thread, that is an opinion I guess...

I told you, I don't think a soul has any pride whatsoever, your soul is a piece of the whole... everything you think of as you will die when you die, your memories, anything you think of as ME, because there is no you, there is just "God", the one, not the many... your spirit returns from the whole it came from, and will reunite as one once again. The tendency to do good, in my opinion, does not come from this... your soul has no opinion, it is pure, innocent and without pride. Your consciousness does, and how your consciousness interacts with your physical body. Your physical body and consciousness has been molded by millions of years of evolution....and it helps to survive when you are kind to others, most of the time...
I think your spirit gives you life... not your consciousness.
Our consciousness guides our spirit... not the other way around, because it has no pride.


I am just arguing your opinion why you don't think others approach are relevant... I disagree with you...

I think you are derailing you're OWN thread.

If you respect others opinions... then maybe it won't be derailed :2wave:
 
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Also, I would like to add, that just because evolution may have helped this tendency doesn't mean we don't have a choice... we always have choices, just because our biology has influenced them... they don't determine them.... our consciousness does.
 
American said:
--Thomas Jefferson to Thomas Law, 1814. ME 14:141

Jeremiah 31:31-34
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Yes, I do. I think we all are born with a spark of the divine, a connection to our Creator, that informs our souls as to right and wrong.


Some people drown that spark though, their "conscience is seared as with a hot iron"... which leaves scar tissue with no feeling in it.


I think all that is good in man is a gift of God, and in God's utter absence there would be nothing to hold back the wickedness of man.
 
The Jewish perspective on this is that the dualistic nature of our souls existed at the moment of creation. In the Torah the word used in Genesis for 'formed' is 'vayyitzer' spelled ויצר, but in this instance includes two yods וייצר instead. An explanation for the difference is found in the Talmud which describes the the two impulses found in humans: the yetzer tov and the yetzer ra. It is generally understood that the yetzer tov is the moral conscience, the 'good' which reminds a person of God and the divine commandments. While the yetzer ra is focused on self-gratification, the desire to fulfill our own needs and desires, more generally as the 'bad' part of the soul.

The overview of this is that what makes us 'godly' is not that we are ingrained with innate goodness, bur rather that we have the ability to discern right from wrong (within a few limits) just as God can. Rashi called this our ability to "understand and discern".

Edit: Like all things regarding Torah, especially when they involve metaphysical/spiritual questions, the answers can become infinitely more complicated than this. This is just a quick take on the question in order to add to the responses for the OP. =)
 
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American said:
You realize you're in the religious forum, correct?
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I'm confused on your hostility here. This is a debate forum, and within said forum is a section about religion. That doesn't mean that within the religion part of the forum that everyone must agree with each other to participate in the discussion.
 
My thoughts on the matter, and I'm not sure why I'm responding because it's obvious I'll be accused of trying to derail the topic and argue because I don't share the same feelings as the original poster, are as follows. I'm not religious and I never have been, and so therefore I don't believe that the inclination to do good things comes from anything other than thousands and thousands of years of trial and error. As was stated by another poster I believe that it has more to do with the evolution of human existence. We've learned how to survive with each other and therefore we've learned that "we catch more bees with honey" and so our natural instinct is to do good before bad.

With that said I can understand why a religious person would feel (or question) if the tendency to do good is within a person's soul or from another source.

Why am I in a religious forum if I don't believe in a god? Because I find communicating with religious people to be interesting sometimes. I may disagree with pretty much everything that is believed on a religious front, but that doesn't mean that I don't like discussing those beliefs in a polite way. It is interesting to see what other people believe and why.
 
laurcunningham said:
I'm confused on your hostility here. This is a debate forum, and within said forum is a section about religion. That doesn't mean that within the religion part of the forum that everyone must agree with each other to participate in the discussion.
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First off this is about evolution at all, so it doesn't belong here. He was derailing the thread about the soul in the Religious forum which is suppose be about religious topics. We're debating evolution here. The rule for this forum are pretty clear. And I wasn't hostile, just reminding of where is was.
 
laurcunningham said:
Because this is a public forum and they were responding with their thoughts on what you said.
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No he responded with this thoughts on another topic. I think you like me, that why you're stalking. :)
 
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