Judging People - Luke 12:57

Who can point an accusing finger at others, and be fool enough to thump his own chest with pride, as he claims, "I DON'T JUDGE PEOPLE?"

Who doesn't pass personal judgements?

Who can tell me that I'm a hypocrite, or that I'm wrong....without passing judgement on me!
Who then, is the hypocrite? The liar? The fool?



“Why don’t you judge for yourselves what is right?” (Luke 12:57).

Of all places, there is an insightful line about the necessity of passing personal judgment that comes from a new one-act play. As reported in a review carried in the New York Times, here is the way a debate goes between the play’s two central characters:

“People have to judge you by something,” he tells her.

“I don’t judge people,” she replies.

“Well, I hope you never drown,” he replies. “Because if it’s you and I and Michael Phelps in the Hamptons and you get a cramp? And you call on me because you’re not judgmental? I think you’d probably die.”

The dialogue takes place between a man with cerebral palsy and his caregiver, and it is meant to be a funny scene in the play. Regardless, it is also a statement of an obvious truth. We all make judgments about people. And it is neither smart nor virtuous to pretend we don’t — or shouldn’t.


Oh, I can hear the response of someone now. “Okay, you Christians are judgmental. Thanks for admitting it. But your ‘Leader’ condemned it!”

First, if this response is meant to claim that some Christians are overly judgmental and too quick to censure and condemn those with whom they disagree, it is surely correct. To make headlines by claiming that a Texas flood or a California fire is “God’s judgment” against a person or a lifestyle is simply crude and mean-spirited. If Moses was a prophet with a direct link to Yahweh about the plagues of Egypt, today’s TV preachers and would-be prophets don’t.


Second, Jesus — along with Paul and Peter and your common sense — actually requires that we pass judgment on truth and falsehood, right and wrong:

“Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment” (John 7:24 NRSV).



To offer Jesus’ “Don’t judge lest you be judged” as an excuse for some rotten behavior or to defend an obvious falsehood is to be both disingenuous and dishonest. To claim otherwise, is — uh, well — to make a judgment. To judge what I have claimed. To judge me.

'I Don't Judge People'

tosca1 said:

If Moses was a prophet with a direct link to Yahweh about the plagues of Egypt, today’s TV preachers and would-be prophets don’t.

Click to expand...

Why not? Is it inconceivable that someone in the modern world might have a 'direct line' to god? Has god given up on that particular communication strategy?

“Okay, you Christians are judgmental. Thanks for admitting it. But your ‘Leader’ condemned it!”

Click to expand...

Of the plethora of routine ways people abuse what the bible says, this is one of the more egregious and popular - and blatantly ironic; judging people for.... being judgmental. Fortunately, as you've shown, it's also one of the most simple to address.

Andalublue said:

Why not? Is it inconceivable that someone in the modern world might have a 'direct line' to god? Has god given up on that particular communication strategy?

Click to expand...

Yes, He has.

Isn't the point of Matthew 7 not that people shouldn't judge, but to point out that those who do judge others' sins need to make sure that they aren't sinning themselves? It's warning against hypocrisy, surely. And isn't that a little confusing since, according to your theology, we're all sinners?

Andalublue said:

Isn't the point of Matthew 7 not that people shouldn't judge, but to point out that those who do judge others' sins need to make sure that they aren't sinning themselves? It's warning against hypocrisy, surely. And isn't that a little confusing since, according to your theology, we're all sinners?

Click to expand...

Well, that's true. Matthew 7 does speak about JUDGING OTHERS' SINS - which is tantamount to about making a direct personal accusation.
Who am I to say that you are a sinner because you indulge in this and that? Am I without sin myself to be able to disparage you as a sinner?


No, it's not confusing.

You are taking Matthew 7 out of context in the sense that you are simply taking it as it is, and making it the only basis against passing personal judgement. It's not the whole picture.
That is a common mistake by so many. Cherry-picking, it's called. Or, it's an argument based on ignorance of the Scriptures.

Though I have no right to judge who qualifies to go to heaven or hell, or to disparage anyone, and feel smug about myself - I surely have all the right to make judgement as to what is right and what is wrong. In fact, I'm instructed by God to do so!

That is why we have been given the intelligence by God. That we may be able to discern.

tosca1 said:

Though I have no right to judge who qualifies to go to heaven or hell, or to disparage anyone, and feel smug about myself - I surely have all the right to make judgement as to what is right and what is wrong.

Click to expand...

That's two different kinds of judgement, surely? I'm not sure I've read anyone saying that people shouldn't use their judgement, just not judge as if you were in a position to make "a direct personal accusation", as you said.

You are taking Matthew 7 out of context in the sense that you are simply taking it as it is, and making it the only basis against passing personal judgement.

Click to expand...

Not at all. I never claimed it's the only basis, just that it's a basis. It's a clear and unambiguous warning against hypocrisy. Or isn't it? Would its 'context' make that a wrong interpretation?

Andalublue said:

That's two different kinds of judgement, surely? I'm not sure I've read anyone saying that people shouldn't use their judgement, just not judge as if you were in a position to make "a direct personal accusation", as you said.

Not at all. I never claimed it's the only basis, just that it's a basis. It's a clear and unambiguous warning against hypocrisy. Or isn't it? Would its 'context' make that a wrong interpretation?

Click to expand...

Yes, you're right. It is a warning on hypocrisy.

However, that's the common verse cherry-picked by some as an argument that we cannot make any judgements at all. That we shouldn't even point out when a behaviour or a lifestyle is wrong.

tosca1 said:

Yes, you're right. It is a warning on hypocrisy.

However, that's the common verse cherry-picked by some as an argument that we cannot make any judgements at all. That we shouldn't even point out when a behaviour or a lifestyle is wrong.

Click to expand...

Well, that's a matter of your own judgement, but it seems to me it's a strong warning for people to concentrate less on the perceived sins of others, and more on dealing with your own sins.

Of course, as I don't believe in sin, this is merely an interesting conversation for me.

tosca1 said:

Who can point an accusing finger at others, and be fool enough to thump his own chest with pride, as he claims, "I DON'T JUDGE PEOPLE?"

Who doesn't pass personal judgements?

Who can tell me that I'm a hypocrite, or that I'm wrong....without passing judgement on me!
Who then, is the hypocrite? The liar? The fool?



“Why don’t you judge for yourselves what is right?” (Luke 12:57).

Of all places, there is an insightful line about the necessity of passing personal judgment that comes from a new one-act play. As reported in a review carried in the New York Times, here is the way a debate goes between the play’s two central characters:

“People have to judge you by something,” he tells her.

“I don’t judge people,” she replies.

“Well, I hope you never drown,” he replies. “Because if it’s you and I and Michael Phelps in the Hamptons and you get a cramp? And you call on me because you’re not judgmental? I think you’d probably die.”

The dialogue takes place between a man with cerebral palsy and his caregiver, and it is meant to be a funny scene in the play. Regardless, it is also a statement of an obvious truth. We all make judgments about people. And it is neither smart nor virtuous to pretend we don’t — or shouldn’t.


Oh, I can hear the response of someone now. “Okay, you Christians are judgmental. Thanks for admitting it. But your ‘Leader’ condemned it!”

First, if this response is meant to claim that some Christians are overly judgmental and too quick to censure and condemn those with whom they disagree, it is surely correct. To make headlines by claiming that a Texas flood or a California fire is “God’s judgment” against a person or a lifestyle is simply crude and mean-spirited. If Moses was a prophet with a direct link to Yahweh about the plagues of Egypt, today’s TV preachers and would-be prophets don’t.


Second, Jesus — along with Paul and Peter and your common sense — actually requires that we pass judgment on truth and falsehood, right and wrong:

“Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment” (John 7:24 NRSV).



To offer Jesus’ “Don’t judge lest you be judged” as an excuse for some rotten behavior or to defend an obvious falsehood is to be both disingenuous and dishonest. To claim otherwise, is — uh, well — to make a judgment. To judge what I have claimed. To judge me.

'I Don't Judge People'

Click to expand...

In Philippians 2:12, we are told: "to work out OUR salvation with fear and trembling." A Christian's judgement is to be focused on his own actions, sin(s), and repentance, not on the actions, opinions, and deeds of others.

Andalublue said:

Isn't the point of Matthew 7 not that people shouldn't judge, but to point out that those who do judge others' sins need to make sure that they aren't sinning themselves? It's warning against hypocrisy, surely. And isn't that a little confusing since, according to your theology, we're all sinners?

Click to expand...

Christian tend to judge actions or practices while the non-believes tend to get personal or lump all religion into one group.

Andalublue said:

Isn't the point of Matthew 7 not that people shouldn't judge, but to point out that those who do judge others' sins need to make sure that they aren't sinning themselves? It's warning against hypocrisy, surely. And isn't that a little confusing since, according to your theology, we're all sinners?

Click to expand...

I absolutely agree that hypocrisy is the point of that passage. I also agree that we're all sinners. But as to why that may be confusing for some is, I suspect, more an issue of hastily generalizing the subject than it is seeking to understand the topic in its entirety.

Consider for example another statement Jesus made in this regard:
Jesus begins this statement with the exact same three words He does in Matthew 7 - "Do not judge..." Is this a contradiction? I don't believe it is. Jesus is telling us TO judge in this passage, but when we do to do it righteously.

In Matthew 18:15ff Jesus gives us instruction on how to deal with a brother who does sin. If we're not to judge the actions of others, how is it possible to fulfill such instructions?

Where hypocrisy enters is in the one pointing out another's sin who themselves are in the habit of doing the very same sin - e.g. the person who cheats on their time card pointing out someone's theft of a pen, and so forth.

We are all sinners, yes. But we do not all commit the same sins (though only 1 sin qualifies for the label "sinner"). One is tempted to theft, another to gossip, another to lust, another to anger... One struggles with one type of sin while another struggles with something different. Even one who is tempted with one type of sin, though they might not be [currently] engaged in that sin, is in a position to righteously point it out when another is engaging in it.

It is in fact our purpose to help one another to grow and mature, whether in our religious convictions or our secular ones.

When is the team mate who has skipped a day of training here or there a hypocrite in pointing out when another team mate does it?
-- When they did it in the past, when it's no longer something they habitually do but recognize the temptation to do it?
-- When they did it the day before and will likely do it again?
-- When they are currently doing it?

Paul said this:
In truth, it's critical we judge one another, the times, circumstances, events, etc. for again, it is our purpose, our goal to help one another rise from our weaknesses to maturity.

To "judge" is to form an opinion based -- whatever.
To "judge" righteously is to form that opinion based on careful weighing of the facts, all the facts.
To "judge" unrighteously (hypocritically or otherwise) is to do just the opposite, and is done most frequently in the SUBJECTIVE judging of people's "goodness" or "badness" based on feelings rather than in the OBJECTIVE assessment of their behavior or actions based on the facts.

I like the line in the movie "Office Space" where the one coworker tells the main character, "You're a bad person!" In fact, all 3 friends embezzled the company. All 3 did a bad thing.

Athrawan said:

In Philippians 2:12, we are told: "to work out OUR salvation with fear and trembling." A Christian's judgement is to be focused on his own actions, sin(s), and repentance, not on the actions, opinions, and deeds of others.

Click to expand...

This is the lifelong--daily and sometimes minute by minute!--battle. The good news is that if are earnestly striving to grow in more than chronological years, LOL, you eventually make enough acknowledged mistakes that it occurs to you that focusing on the timber in your own eye is job enough. As a bonus, being reminded of your own errors and keeping these in perspective also nurtures compassion for others and their mistakes.

nota bene said:

This is the lifelong--daily and sometimes minute by minute!--battle. The good news is that if are earnestly striving to grow in more than chronological years, LOL, you eventually make enough acknowledged mistakes that it occurs to you that focusing on the timber in your own eye is job enough. As a bonus, being reminded of your own errors and keeping these in perspective also nurtures compassion for others and their mistakes.

Click to expand...

Amen.

tosca1 said:

Who can point an accusing finger at others, and be fool enough to thump his own chest with pride, as he claims, "I DON'T JUDGE PEOPLE?"

Who doesn't pass personal judgements?

Who can tell me that I'm a hypocrite, or that I'm wrong....without passing judgement on me!
Who then, is the hypocrite? The liar? The fool?



“Why don’t you judge for yourselves what is right?” (Luke 12:57).

Of all places, there is an insightful line about the necessity of passing personal judgment that comes from a new one-act play. As reported in a review carried in the New York Times, here is the way a debate goes between the play’s two central characters:

“People have to judge you by something,” he tells her.

“I don’t judge people,” she replies.

“Well, I hope you never drown,” he replies. “Because if it’s you and I and Michael Phelps in the Hamptons and you get a cramp? And you call on me because you’re not judgmental? I think you’d probably die.”

The dialogue takes place between a man with cerebral palsy and his caregiver, and it is meant to be a funny scene in the play. Regardless, it is also a statement of an obvious truth. We all make judgments about people. And it is neither smart nor virtuous to pretend we don’t — or shouldn’t.


Oh, I can hear the response of someone now. “Okay, you Christians are judgmental. Thanks for admitting it. But your ‘Leader’ condemned it!”

First, if this response is meant to claim that some Christians are overly judgmental and too quick to censure and condemn those with whom they disagree, it is surely correct. To make headlines by claiming that a Texas flood or a California fire is “God’s judgment” against a person or a lifestyle is simply crude and mean-spirited. If Moses was a prophet with a direct link to Yahweh about the plagues of Egypt, today’s TV preachers and would-be prophets don’t.


Second, Jesus — along with Paul and Peter and your common sense — actually requires that we pass judgment on truth and falsehood, right and wrong:

“Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment” (John 7:24 NRSV).



To offer Jesus’ “Don’t judge lest you be judged” as an excuse for some rotten behavior or to defend an obvious falsehood is to be both disingenuous and dishonest. To claim otherwise, is — uh, well — to make a judgment. To judge what I have claimed. To judge me.

'I Don't Judge People'

Click to expand...

Don't judge people who judge.

Nah. Seriously. If you judge people by the Christian standard then you will be judge by the Christian standard.

If you judge people by a hard worker's standard then you will be judged by a hard worker's standard.

If you have no standards or don't want to be held accountable for anything then you should never judge anybody. If you don't judge people then they won't judge you. If you do judge people then they will judge you exactly the same way.

Judge not lest you be judged. That's what Jesus said. Jesus never said anything completely stupid like, "Don't judge". That is only what idiots say that have absolutely no standards.

Athrawan said:

In Philippians 2:12, we are told: "to work out OUR salvation with fear and trembling." A Christian's judgement is to be focused on his own actions, sin(s), and repentance, not on the actions, opinions, and deeds of others.

Click to expand...

That verse does not say you focus on yourself alone! Philippians 2 talks to the group as a whole about fear of God and working out their salvation.....nowhere does it say to focus on one's self!

In fact, if you read the first few verses of Philippians 2, it tells you the exact opposite!

NOT TO FOCUS ON YOURSELF - but to look out for another!





Philippians 2
Imitating Christ’s Humility
2 Therefore if you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any common sharing in the Spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, 2 then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and of one mind. 3 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves, 4 not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of the others.



Do Everything Without Grumbling
12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.
14 Do everything without grumbling or arguing, 15 so that you may become blameless and pure, “children of God without fault in a warped and crooked generation.”



It is our duty to rebuke each other as brothers - especially when our actions can influence and lead others astray!

Look at these verses.

Matthew Chapter 18
15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
16 But if he will not hear [thee, then] take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell [it] unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.


Titus 2
Doing Good for the Sake of the Gospel
2 You, however, must teach what is appropriate to sound doctrine. 2 Teach the older men to be temperate, worthy of respect, self-controlled, and sound in faith, in love and in endurance.

3 Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good. 4 Then they can urge the younger women to love their husbands and children, 5 to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God.

6 Similarly, encourage the young men to be self-controlled. 7 In everything set them an example by doing what is good. In your teaching show integrity, seriousness 8 and soundness of speech that cannot be condemned, so that those who oppose you may be ashamed because they have nothing bad to say about us.

9 Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything, to try to please them, not to talk back to them, 10 and not to steal from them, but to show that they can be fully trusted, so that in every way they will make the teaching about God our Savior attractive.

11 For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. 12 It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, 13 while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.

15 These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.



1 Timothy 5:20
Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.


2 Timothy 3:16-17
All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:


2 Timothy 4:2
Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.


Galatians 6:1
Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.


James 5:20
Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.


Proverbs 27:6
Faithful [are] the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy [are] deceitful.