CrabCake said:
Although within the realm of possibility, that smells a lot like an old urban legend or modern myth. Do you have any evidence that this is historically accurate? Otherwise I think I'm going to file this one under the "probably a myth" category.
Not exactly. My grandmother, who had diabetes, was raised in the Nazarene church, and she told me the story of her pastor's reaction to a doctor's prescription for insulin (which was that it was "of the devil"). Somewhere there is a biography of Gerald B. Winrod, evangelist preacher in the early part of the 20th century, and he was fairly famous for making claims like this (i.e. that such-and-such new-fangled medical treatment was "of the devil"). Ditto Billy Sunday. Check out a book titled
Fundamentalism and American Culture by George Marsden. He describes a number of instances of evangelists in the early 20th century responding to new medical treatments with religious opprobrium.
CrabCake said:
This one is almost certainly a myth. Do you have any evidence to back up this anecdote?
It's in Thorndike's
History of Magic, vol. 7, in his coverage of the second trial of Pietro d'Abano. I haven't had time to look up the page number (my copy is in another state at the moment). That being said, reading my words again, I think they were rather too strong. The entire western church did not ban bowed stringed instruments or violins in particular. There were merely some instances of invectives from Bishops and Archbishops, and from the Inquisition, to this effect.
All of that said, I think your reply misses the point a little. I was merely trying to think of off-hand examples of phenomena that are now considered natural which previously were considered supernatural. Unless you think there are no such phenomena, it seems you ought to agree with my overall point, which is that someone who relies on the Bible to draw lines between natural and supernatural is on shaky ground, since that line has shifted so many times since the Bible was written.
CrabCake said:
No, it's not possible. If it were possible, it would almost certainly be well worth it because the JREF would give you $1,000,000 if you demonstrated this ability The Million Dollar Challenge - JREF.
Well, four points:
1. There is a difference between what is possible and what is demonstrable, and it's important not to confuse the two. This is important especially in relation to point 4, below.
2. Of course it's possible. Can you point to anything which forecloses on the possibilty? The laws of physics, for instance, do not, and even if they did, there's Hempel's dilemma to deal with: physics is not finished, so making claims about impossibilities on the basis of incomplete physics is specious.
3. A fellow named Robert McLuhan has written a pretty well-reasoned book about JREF and CSI called
Randi's Prize: What Sceptics say about the Paranormal, Why they are Wrong, and Why it Matters which sums up my own thoughts on the subject. On the one hand, it is certainly good to expose, er, people (I use the term loosely) like Peter Popoff or Uri Geller, who bilk people out of millions of dollars using lies and deceit.
Even worse from my perspective is that such people leave the public with a very skewed view of subjects and phenomena which might be loosely grouped under the category of "spiritual." Most people are not aware, but many occultists of the early 20th century spent a great deal of time debunking spiritism and other such nonsense.
On the other hand, folks like Randi, Shermer, Hyman, etc. go too far. On the basis of debunking some, they insinuate that all such claims are nonsense.
4. My own experience convinces me that something like this both is possible, and would take a great deal of effort. I've had three experiences in the entire time I've been a practicing magician (which is now over 20 years) of phenomena which aren't easily explainable by mundane means. Indeed, probably not explainable at all. However, none of those experiences were under my control--that is, I don't know how they came about or why. Most often, when magic is successful, coincidences just line up with unusual ease to bring about the desired result. It may be that if I dropped everything and went to the desert for five years or something, and did nothing but ritual and meditation, I might figure it out. But it's pretty hard to do that in the modern world (for one thing, all the deserts are owned by someone).