Are Islam and Christianity diametrically opposed? [W:96]

I just listened to this teaching by John MacArthur, which indicates the answer to this question is positive.
I would be interested to hear comments by adherents to Islam mostly, whether they feel this account mistreats their text.

I expect this may devolve into whether Muslims and Christians can live peaceably together for long. Could be an interesting conversation none the less.

Re: Are Islam and Christianity diametrically opposed?

Cable said:

I just listened to this teaching by John MacArthur, which indicates the answer to this question is positive.
I would be interested to hear comments by adherents to Islam mostly, whether they feel this account mistreats their text.

I expect this may devolve into whether Muslims and Christians can live peaceably together for long. Could be an interesting conversation none the less.

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Muslims can't live peaceably together with people of other religions,because Islam aims domination.It's the nature of Islam.

"Verily Allah has shown me the eastern and western part of the earth, and I saw the authority of my Ummah (nation)dominate all that I saw” (Saheeh Muslim, hadith) (Quote from the Prophet Muhammad)

You might picture beheadings scenes when you hear the word "jihad" however jihad is not just about violence,it's a duty for all Muslims.It's basically spreading Islam by force or other methods(like establishing Islamic schools,foundations etc.)

Re: Are Islam and Christianity diametrically opposed?

Judaism -- "so, you think, maybe, you want to convert to Judaism? Meh. You can, but we're going to make it as tough on you as possible to do so!"

Christianity -- "Have you heard the good news? We would love it if you to join us this Sunday"

Islam -- "Convert or die!!"

Re: Are Islam and Christianity diametrically opposed?

They're extremely similar. They're not opposed at all. However, one of the similarities is that they both want to dominate every facet of the world around them, and neither is capable of sharing.

Gardener said:

Judaism -- "so, you think, maybe, you want to convert to Judaism? Meh. You can, but we're going to make it as tough on you as possible to do so!"

Christianity -- "Have you heard the good news? We would love it if you to join us this Sunday"

Islam -- "Convert or die!!"

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In most Christian countries, "convert or die" is the norm. It's only in secular nations where religious violence is actually stopped and Christianity isn't allowed to impose itself that it turns into "good news".

Re: Are Islam and Christianity diametrically opposed?

Cable said:

I just listened to this teaching by John MacArthur, which indicates the answer to this question is positive.
I would be interested to hear comments by adherents to Islam mostly, whether they feel this account mistreats their text.

I expect this may devolve into whether Muslims and Christians can live peaceably together for long. Could be an interesting conversation none the less.

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I don't see why they would have to be fundelamentally opposed, they worship the same god.

Re: Are Islam and Christianity diametrically opposed?

Paschendale said:

They're extremely similar. They're not opposed at all. However, one of the similarities is that they both want to dominate every facet of the world around them, and neither is capable of sharing.

In most Christian countries, "convert or die" is the norm. It's only in secular nations where religious violence is actually stopped and Christianity isn't allowed to impose itself that it turns into "good news".

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Point 1, you are quite wrong. They are opposed directly due to the differing understandings of who Christ is. The biblical Christ is the anti-Christ of Islam. They can not both be true understandings, and hence they are opposed.

Point 2, Where nation states adopt Christianity as the state religion then you get a perversion or man-made religion, which is not Christianity. So you are right as far as it goes, but it does not describe Christ's church. If you wish to prove otherwise you would have to show from scripture where Christ indicates his followers should kill the unbelievers.

This being true, they can't both claim the same God. A universal God would not be self-opposed.

Re: Are Islam and Christianity diametrically opposed?

Paschendale said:

They're extremely similar. They're not opposed at all. However, one of the similarities is that they both want to dominate every facet of the world around them, and neither is capable of sharing.



In most Christian countries, "convert or die" is the norm. It's only in secular nations where religious violence is actually stopped and Christianity isn't allowed to impose itself that it turns into "good news".

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Not one single word of truth...

Re: Are Islam and Christianity diametrically opposed?

Islam: Everything is based on the written words of Mohammed with immediate punishment for violations.
Christianty: Everything is based on the work of the Holy Spirit within your heart, backed by the Bible showing you what is pleasing/displeasing to God and allowing you to choose out of your own free will.

I: Aggressive invasion of other nations to proselytize.
C: Proselytization done by showing love to your brother.

I: A bastardization of God's Word to support it's goals.
C: A supporting of God's Word to support God's goals.

I: Stuck in it's infancy with nothing to adapt to mankind's changing social maturity.
C: The result of God's adjusting His treatment of mankind and His expectations from us as we matured socially.


Now we'll hear from the anti-Christians here bringing up examples of people not doing this. What I outlined above is what those under discussion are SUPPOSED TO BE DOING, NOT WHAT THEY ALWAYS DO.

Re: Are Islam and Christianity diametrically opposed?

Paschendale said:

They're extremely similar. They're not opposed at all. However, one of the similarities is that they both want to dominate every facet of the world around them, and neither is capable of sharing.



In most Christian countries, "convert or die" is the norm. It's only in secular nations where religious violence is actually stopped and Christianity isn't allowed to impose itself that it turns into "good news".

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When was the last time a non-Christian was murdered for not converting to Christianity?

Re: Are Islam and Christianity diametrically opposed?

youngturk said:

When was the last time a non-Christian was murdered for not converting to Christianity?

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Whether or not it has happened, when did Christ order it?

Re: Are Islam and Christianity diametrically opposed?

Cable said:

Point 1, you are quite wrong. They are opposed directly due to the differing understandings of who Christ is. The biblical Christ is the anti-Christ of Islam. They can not both be true understandings, and hence they are opposed.

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This distinction is almost completely irrelevant to how these religions affect a society. The treatment and restrictions of women is nearly identical, as is the sexual repression, the suppression of science, the violence against gays, the suppression of artistic and literary expression, and many other facets. The mythological figures and parables don't make much difference.

Point 2, Where nation states adopt Christianity as the state religion then you get a perversion or man-made religion, which is not Christianity. So you are right as far as it goes, but it does not describe Christ's church. If you wish to prove otherwise you would have to show from scripture where Christ indicates his followers should kill the unbelievers.

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This is contrary to how Christianity has comported itself for the majority of its existence (including in many nations today). Are you really suggesting that basically all forms of Christianity besides American Protestantism are a perversion, and that for the first fifteen hundred or so years of its existence, Christianity was a perversion of itself?

This being true, they can't both claim the same God. A universal God would not be self-opposed.

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Easily answered by a Deist god, a malevolent god, an apathetic god, or a fictional god. I think it's quite arrogant to presuppose that either religion is true, especially to presuppose that yours is true and the other one isn't.

youngturk said:

When was the last time a non-Christian was murdered for not converting to Christianity?

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I don't know about if it was in response to a refusal to convert, but non-Christians are killed all the time in Christian countries in Africa, exactly the same way as in Muslim nations in northern Africa and the Middle East. These are, of course, the only real Christian countries left in the world, where the religion is imposed through law. Any other nation is a secular nation with Christians in it. Even many European countries with state religions are primarily secular.

Re: Are Islam and Christianity diametrically opposed?

Paschendale said:

This distinction is almost completely irrelevant to how these religions affect a society. The treatment and restrictions of women is nearly identical, as is the sexual repression, the suppression of science, the violence against gays, the suppression of artistic and literary expression, and many other facets. The mythological figures and parables don't make much difference.

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You are off topic with this. The question isn't how each affects society. That said, you can ask my Christian wife if she'd rather live with me in a Christian manner or live under sharia law as a Muslim. You can probably easily guess the answer. We also love art, music, literature and have a healthy respect for science, which is simply study and documentation of observable facts. I've had good friends that were gay of both genders. I disagree with their lifestyle choices, but I've never attacked them either physically or emotionally. For some reason some folks think disagreement with someone is violence. It's just disagreement. Sure there are bad exceptions. Just like when a single misguided black man, because of being abused due to his color, might attack a white guy for retribution because he is white. Some folks are just mixed up.

Paschendale said:

This is contrary to how Christianity has comported itself for the majority of its existence (including in many nations today). Are you really suggesting that basically all forms of Christianity besides American Protestantism are a perversion, and that for the first fifteen hundred or so years of its existence, Christianity was a perversion of itself?

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Somewhat yes. I specifically said when the state controls or is controlled by the church bad things will happen. Nor do I assume that American Protestantism is on the money either. Christ's church is made up of individuals who believe in, follow, and trust him, wherever they might be located and whatever church they might be affiliated with. You don't understand Christ, so you don't understand his church. Be that honest.

Paschendale said:

Easily answered by a Deist god, a malevolent god, an apathetic god, or a fictional god. I think it's quite arrogant to presuppose that either religion is true, especially to presuppose that yours is true and the other one isn't.

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Again you are off topic. The question isn't about which God is true. If you want to post about these other paradigms more power to you. It is free to create your own thread. I created this one to discuss the Christian/Islam paradigm difference.
Do you feel arrogant in your choice of political faith?

Re: Are Islam and Christianity diametrically opposed?

Cable said:

You are off topic with this. The question isn't how each affects society.

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That's the question that interests me.

That said, you can ask my Christian wife if she'd rather live with me in a Christian manner or live under sharia law as a Muslim. You can probably easily guess the answer.

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You don't live in a Christian manner. You live in a modern, secular manner, but with a little bit of Christian European historical influence. If she lived in a Christian manner, in a country like Mozambique or Congo, it wouldn't be particularly distinguishable from living under Sharia.

As for the rest of your post, why bother asking the question if your only answer is "you don't understand" and eliminating any criteria but your own? You asked a question. I told you, based on all the issues that I find important, the answer.

Re: Are Islam and Christianity diametrically opposed?

Paschendale said:

That's the question that interests me.



You don't live in a Christian manner. You live in a modern, secular manner, but with a little bit of Christian European historical influence. If she lived in a Christian manner, in a country like Mozambique or Congo, it wouldn't be particularly distinguishable from living under Sharia.

As for the rest of your post, why bother asking the question if your only answer is "you don't understand" and eliminating any criteria but your own? You asked a question. I told you, based on all the issues that I find important, the answer.

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What nonsense.

To get back on topic, thank you for that video, Cable. It's the first time I've heard it so clearly explained.

Re: Are Islam and Christianity diametrically opposed?

A section of the koran refers to jesus as 'merely' another prophet, and states it's absurd to think he's divine. The christian bible curiously omits any reference to mahommad

So i'd say they're not very compatible

Re: Are Islam and Christianity diametrically opposed?

Oh yeah people well my religion can beat up all y'all's religions. All hail the spaghetti monster

Re: Are Islam and Christianity diametrically opposed?

They're different pieces of multicolored glass in the shade around the same tea light.

Re: Are Islam and Christianity diametrically opposed?

tosca1 said:

What nonsense.

To get back on topic, thank you for that video, Cable. It's the first time I've heard it so clearly explained.

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You are welcome Tosca. I agree, it was a good teaching and I learned from it too.

Re: Are Islam and Christianity diametrically opposed?

chromium said:

A section of the koran refers to jesus as 'merely' another prophet, and states it's absurd to think he's divine. The christian bible curiously omits any reference to mahommad

So i'd say they're not very compatible

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Mohammad came along about 600 years after Christ.

Re: Are Islam and Christianity diametrically opposed?

winston53660 said:

Oh yeah people well my religion can beat up all y'all's religions. All hail the spaghetti monster

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The spaghetti monster is just another anti-Christ.

Re: Are Islam and Christianity diametrically opposed?

Paschendale said:

That's the question that interests me.

You don't live in a Christian manner. You live in a modern, secular manner, but with a little bit of Christian European historical influence. If she lived in a Christian manner, in a country like Mozambique or Congo, it wouldn't be particularly distinguishable from living under Sharia.

As for the rest of your post, why bother asking the question if your only answer is "you don't understand" and eliminating any criteria but your own? You asked a question. I told you, based on all the issues that I find important, the answer.

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Your white brush is always so wide Pasch.

Re: Are Islam and Christianity diametrically opposed?

Cable said:

Mohammad came along about 600 years after Christ.

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i'm aware, i was mocking the biblical prophets' lack of foresight. Funny they can describe endtimes in lurid detail but have nothing to say re: a religion that would become even larger

Re: Are Islam and Christianity diametrically opposed?

The religions originating in the middle east are more similar than different. For every stupid, self righteous or violent statement in the Koran it is possible to find something equally bad in the Bible. Fortunately most Christians and Jews ignore the worst parts of the Bible, but that has been a gradual development that started in the Renaissance. Many Muslims live similarly to Christians and Jews in most ways. In the poorer and more unstable areas of the world they live more like people in our society did 150 years ago.

One of the causes of Islamic fundamentalism is blowback from the dictators that the west installed and supported after WWII. Those dictators oppressed and banned many political parties and organizations, leaving only the religious organizations available as opportunities for resistance.

Re: Are Islam and Christianity diametrically opposed?

Cable said:

I just listened to this teaching by John MacArthur, which indicates the answer to this question is positive.
I would be interested to hear comments by adherents to Islam mostly, whether they feel this account mistreats their text.

I expect this may devolve into whether Muslims and Christians can live peaceably together for long. Could be an interesting conversation none the less.

Click to expand...

Islam and Christianity are not diametrically opposed, but their religious extremists are.

Re: Are Islam and Christianity diametrically opposed?

chromium said:

i'm aware, i was mocking the biblical prophets' lack of foresight. Funny they can describe endtimes in lurid detail but have nothing to say re: a religion that would become even larger

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You understand that Islam fits revelation, right?