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Are Islam and Christianity diametrically opposed? [W:96]

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Re: Are Islam and Christianity diametrically opposed?

Ikari said:
I don't see why they would have to be fundelamentally opposed, they worship the same god.
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That's nonsense.

"The teachings that Muslims and Christians serve the same God are heretical to the Bible. The Bible teaches that anyone who denies that Jesus is the Christ is a liar and has the spirit of the antichrist (1 John 2:22): “Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.”

The God in the Bible is called the God of the Jews, an impossibility with Allah. They are called his chosen people, but they are not Allah’s chosen. Allah commands the Muslim to not take the Jews or Christians as friends (Sura.5:51 disdains the Jews). Mohammed said, “The last hour will not come before the Muslims fight the Jews, and the Muslims kill them.” (Mishkat Al Masabih Sh.M. Ashraf pp.147, 721, 810-11, 1130). So how could Israel inherit the land or any of God’s promises from Allah, if Allah is their God? Clearly he is not the same God of the Bible.

The god of Islam, Allah, is most definitely not the God of the Bible. We find that Allah is presented in the Koran as an autocratic ruler who is aloof and arbitrary (Sura 5:40 ). Allah is unknowable whereas the God of the Bible is knowable (2 Timothy 1:12 ). Allah is impersonal, unlike the personal God the Scriptures reveal (1 Peter 5:6-7). Allah is unitarian (Sura 4:48 ) whereas the God of the Bible is trinitarian (2 Corinthians 13:14 ). Here is what the Koran says about the God of the Bible (Sura 4:171 ): “Believe in Allah and say not ‘Trinity.’ Cease! It is better for you! Allah is only One God. Far is it removed from his transcendent majesty that he should have a son.”

Do Muslims, Jews, and Christians worship the same God? « The Righter Report
 
Re: Are Islam and Christianity diametrically opposed?

Paschendale said:
In most Christian countries, "convert or die" is the norm. It's only in secular nations where religious violence is actually stopped and Christianity isn't allowed to impose itself that it turns into "good news".
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would you mind giving some current examples of what I bolded?
 
Re: Are Islam and Christianity diametrically opposed?

Manc Skipper said:
They're different pieces of multicolored glass in the shade around the same tea light.

419a_zpscf0d3e61._colored-glass-square-lamp-shade-design-tea-light-holder.jpg
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Nice.
 
Re: Are Islam and Christianity diametrically opposed?

Cable said:
Mohammad came along about 600 years after Christ.
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.................and the bible (well 300+ years)
 
Re: Are Islam and Christianity diametrically opposed?

Cable said:
The spaghetti monster is just another anti-Christ.
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No, in Pastafarianism that would be "anti-pasti"
 
Re: Are Islam and Christianity diametrically opposed?

"diametrically opposed" would be an over-statement, they're certainly not the same.

Nevertheless they have in common of not only being mono-theistic and originating broadly in the same geography (as opposed to Buddhism, Shintoism, Taoism and Pastafarianism etc.), but also of basing upon another.

More precisely, in order of appearance, Christianity building on Judaism and Islam building on both predecessors.

Then to diverge to different paths.
 
Re: Are Islam and Christianity diametrically opposed?

Logicman said:
Actually the New Testament books were complete by 100 AD. Compiled later, yes, but all authored before 100 AD.

A Chronological Order of The New Testament Books
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Well, let's say then that a "working" bible reached larger parts of the population then, long before Islam arose in the Arabian peninsula. Even if one adds the odd couple of 100 years it took (the bible and Christianity) to reach Western Europe.
 
Re: Are Islam and Christianity diametrically opposed?

Cable said:
Mohammad came along about 600 years after Christ.
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That's true.

I hardly know anything about the Quran. I didn't know that Jesus is more than just another prophet to them.
 
Re: Are Islam and Christianity diametrically opposed?

I googled "Mahdi" and I found this video.







It seems to prophecy. If ISIS fills that role of the Mahdi, it could be a self-fulfilling prophecy.
 
Re: Are Islam and Christianity diametrically opposed?

What's strikingly bizarre - for lack of better word - is that the Quran's narrative of its messiah and end times.....is actually the
fulfillment of the Christian Revelation prophecy!
 
Re: Are Islam and Christianity diametrically opposed?

Chagos said:
.................and the bible (well 300+ years)
Click to expand...

So when Paul wrote to the various churches, he waited until he was dead a few hundred years, and then took up the pen?
 
Re: Are Islam and Christianity diametrically opposed?

Logicman said:
That's nonsense.

"The teachings that Muslims and Christians serve the same God are heretical to the Bible. The Bible teaches that anyone who denies that Jesus is the Christ is a liar and has the spirit of the antichrist (1 John 2:22): “Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.”

The God in the Bible is called the God of the Jews, an impossibility with Allah. They are called his chosen people, but they are not Allah’s chosen. Allah commands the Muslim to not take the Jews or Christians as friends (Sura.5:51 disdains the Jews). Mohammed said, “The last hour will not come before the Muslims fight the Jews, and the Muslims kill them.” (Mishkat Al Masabih Sh.M. Ashraf pp.147, 721, 810-11, 1130). So how could Israel inherit the land or any of God’s promises from Allah, if Allah is their God? Clearly he is not the same God of the Bible.

The god of Islam, Allah, is most definitely not the God of the Bible. We find that Allah is presented in the Koran as an autocratic ruler who is aloof and arbitrary (Sura 5:40 ). Allah is unknowable whereas the God of the Bible is knowable (2 Timothy 1:12 ). Allah is impersonal, unlike the personal God the Scriptures reveal (1 Peter 5:6-7). Allah is unitarian (Sura 4:48 ) whereas the God of the Bible is trinitarian (2 Corinthians 13:14 ). Here is what the Koran says about the God of the Bible (Sura 4:171 ): “Believe in Allah and say not ‘Trinity.’ Cease! It is better for you! Allah is only One God. Far is it removed from his transcendent majesty that he should have a son.”

Do Muslims, Jews, and Christians worship the same God? « The Righter Report
Click to expand...

It's all the same god of Abraham. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all trace their origin stories to that god. That's why those three are called Abrahamic religions. Of course it diverges and the applications of particular religious philosophy are quite different. But the base is the same god.

It may be an inconvienent truth, but it is true. Christianity and Islam follow the same God of Abraham..
 
Re: Are Islam and Christianity diametrically opposed?

Cable said:
So when Paul wrote to the various churches, he waited until he was dead a few hundred years, and then took up the pen?
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read #33
 
Re: Are Islam and Christianity diametrically opposed?

If this thread illustrates anything at all, it would be that the more ignorant the poster, the more they treat various religions as similar. The more they know, the more they see the differences.

When one combines ignorance with political correctness, doubly so.
 
Re: Are Islam and Christianity diametrically opposed?

tosca1 said:
What's strikingly bizarre - for lack of better word - is that the Quran's narrative of its messiah and end times.....is actually the
fulfillment of the Christian Revelation prophecy!
Click to expand...
It would be, the Qur'an having taken over a lot from the bible.

Muslims simply believe that the "divine book" was revealed to Jesus, they have no reference to any of the gospels. Islam holds Torah and Bible, where divine, to have been corrupted with the passing of time by addendums that were written by the unauthorized.

There are pointers indicating that this did not happen until around the 11th century (around 400 years after Islam arose) with Ibn Hazm - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia codifying Islamic thought.

Seems that before that (him) the bible was thought of far more highly.
 
Re: Are Islam and Christianity diametrically opposed?

Gardener said:
If this thread illustrates anything at all, it would be that the more ignorant the poster, the more they treat various religions as similar. The more they know, the more they see the differences.

When one combines ignorance with political correctness, doubly so.
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...except that you previously described Islam as "convert or die!".

Speaking as someone with multiple Muslim colleagues and friends, I'm not all that fearful of being murdered.

Or are you going to try and argue that they aren't true Muslims?
 
Re: Are Islam and Christianity diametrically opposed?

tosca1 said:
I googled "Mahdi" and I found this video.







It seems to prophecy. If ISIS fills that role of the Mahdi, it could be a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Click to expand...
There have been a number of Mahdis, off hand I can think of three with one of them having been the instigator of a rebellion in Sudan and dispatching Charlton Heston.........oops......I mean General Gordon, another from Kashmir and so on.

All dead ;)
 
Re: Are Islam and Christianity diametrically opposed?

iangb said:
...except that you previously described Islam as "convert or die!".

Speaking as someone with multiple Muslim colleagues and friends, I'm not all that fearful of being murdered.

Or are you going to try and argue that they aren't true Muslims?
Click to expand...

It was a bit tongue in cheek, but anybody who knows anything about the spread of Islam can see the grain of truth in it.

If there are no differences between these religions, how can you explain this, then, eh?



Laws Criminalizing Apostasy
 
Re: Are Islam and Christianity diametrically opposed?

Ikari said:
It's all the same god of Abraham. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all trace their origin stories to that god. That's why those three are called Abrahamic religions. Of course it diverges and the applications of particular religious philosophy are quite different. But the base is the same god.

It may be an inconvienent truth, but it is true. Christianity and Islam follow the same God of Abraham..
Click to expand...

Yours is a secular understanding. To those who know God, the two are pretty much polar opposites. That is the truth.
 
Re: Are Islam and Christianity diametrically opposed?

Cable said:
Yours is a secular understanding. To those who know God, the two are pretty much polar opposites. That is the truth.
Click to expand...

I don't think it really takes a deist to understand that any religion manufactured by a person in the business of killing people in order to bind his warriors to him would bear his stamp on it.
 
Re: Are Islam and Christianity diametrically opposed?

Gardener said:
It was a bit tongue in cheek, but anybody who knows anything about the spread of Islam can see the grain of truth in it.

If there are no differences between these religions, how can you explain this, then, eh?



Laws Criminalizing Apostasy
Click to expand...
I reference Catholics vs Protestants in the UK a few centuries ago - hell, to a certain extent even today in parts of Ireland/Scotland. Religious divides made brutal by politics, culture, and vicious circles.
 
Re: Are Islam and Christianity diametrically opposed?

iangb said:
I reference Catholics vs Protestants in the UK a few centuries ago - hell, to a certain extent even today in parts of Ireland/Scotland. Religious divides made brutal by politics, culture, and vicious circles.
Click to expand...

Certainly the gay bakery squabble reflects the undercurrents of sectarian divide, and the emphasis on the hectoring judgemental fire-and-brimstone OT God, not the NT God of Lurve.
 
Re: Are Islam and Christianity diametrically opposed?

Cable said:
I just listened to this teaching by John MacArthur, which indicates the answer to this question is positive.
I would be interested to hear comments by adherents to Islam mostly, whether they feel this account mistreats their text.

I expect this may devolve into whether Muslims and Christians can live peaceably together for long. Could be an interesting conversation none the less.

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At least if followed as its founder pretty clearly intended, Islam was basically built from the ground up to be "opposed" to every religion out there that isn't isn't Islam.

Their Holy Texts aren't exactly subtle about it, after all. They blatantly call for the faithful to convert, kill, enslave, or otherwise politically, militarily, and culturally dominate anyone who isn't Islamic.
 
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Re: Are Islam and Christianity diametrically opposed?

iangb said:
I reference Catholics vs Protestants in the UK a few centuries ago - hell, to a certain extent even today in parts of Ireland/Scotland. Religious divides made brutal by politics, culture, and vicious circles.
Click to expand...

and you also reference the fact that you know a couple of nice Muslims, none of which has any real bearing on the considerable differences between Islam and the other Abrahamic religions.

I'm sure it is easy to be smug when one knows so very little and doesn't really want to know anything. I have no doubt that the U.K. has all manner of perfectly delightful Muslims, too, including your friends. After all, only 2/3 of British Muslims believe in criminalizing any criticism of Islam and only 40 % want to be ruled by sharia, so that leaves many hundreds of thousands who don't. That, by no means diminishes from the fact that by very doctrine, you are living in Dar al-Harb for countless hundreds of thousands, however, or that there are many very serious differences between Islam and Christianity or Judaism.

This isn't about squabbles between two different interpretations of one religion, but of a religion that is aggressive BY VERY DESIGN.
 
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