Who Directs Karma?[W:203:215]

In a recent thread Logicman asked the question "Who directs karma?" I encouraged him to start a thread about it and promised to respond. He apparently elected not to start a thread, but it was a good question.

Here I will preface my response by saying that no one has ever accused me of being an authority on Buddhism. I am not. Also it is important to note that karma is a complex concept and as I understand it karma is defined in varying ways among eastern religions.

Who directs karma?

1. No one. Buddhism does not believe in a creator god.

2. In practical (and simple) terms, you are responsible for your karma. Your karma is a result of your intentions and your actions.

Re: Who Directs Karma?

Not sure but isn't it about creating some kind of cosmic positive or negative balance that gets reciprocated in order to reach some kind of equilibrium. Of course, you could probably fill a small index card with the knowledge I have of Eastern religions but that seems to be how people describe it.

So I guess it would be B?

Re: Who Directs Karma?

Under the teachings of Buddhism, everyone is responsible for their Karma. There is no puppeteer directing traffic so to speak. It comes down to an expression of volition, or will, as everyone all the way down to their own thoughts impact Karma. Thus, under Buddhism we all see the fruits from our mental state, thoughts, actions, expressions, associations, etc. without the assumption of a creator, or no one, impacting Karma.

Re: Who Directs Karma?

Risky Thicket said:

In a recent thread Logicman asked the question "Who directs karma?" I encouraged him to start a thread about it and promised to respond. He apparently elected not to start a thread, but it was a good question.

Here I will preface my response by saying that no one has ever accused me of being an authority on Buddhism. I am not. Also it is important to note that karma is a complex concept and as I understand it karma is defined in varying ways among eastern religions.

Who directs karma?

1. No one. Buddhism does not believe in a creator god.

2. In practical (and simple) terms, you are responsible for your karma. Your karma is a result of your intentions and your actions.

Click to expand...

1. Quentin Tarantino

2. Not necessarily. Karma goes both ways--good and bad so bad Karma happens to good people without them inviting it. Good karma then goes around and punishes the bad people (assuming, of course, Quentin is okay with it)

Re: Who Directs Karma?

Declan said:

1. Quentin Tarantino

2. Not necessarily. Karma goes both ways--good and bad so bad Karma happens to good people without them inviting it. Good karma then goes around and punishes the bad people (assuming, of course, Quentin is okay with it)

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Hell it may be Quentin. Or Chuck Norris.

Good things happen to people because of their good intentions and good actions. Karma, "good and bad" happens to all people all the time, everyday.

Re: Who Directs Karma?

The point being, in Hinduism and Buddhism, there is no exterior intellect doing the judging of what is good and what is bad. It's simply intrinsic to the universe. No creator necessary. I wonder if the Hindu gods are subject to it as well. That's an interesting thought.

Re: Who Directs Karma?

The OP asked the wrong question. It is not "Who directs Karma?" The question is "Who directs YOUR Karma?" The answer, of course, is yourself.

Re: Who Directs Karma?

Paschendale said:

The point being, in Hinduism and Buddhism, there is no exterior intellect doing the judging of what is good and what is bad. It's simply intrinsic to the universe. No creator necessary. I wonder if the Hindu gods are subject to it as well. That's an interesting thought.

Click to expand...

I don't know about the Hindu gods either, my understanding of Hindu is there is a soul that recycles as a whole (reincarnation), but in Buddhism the karma recycles because it just has to but not as reincarnation as another self life.

It's leftover karma that can't reach nirvannah , because it's not perfected; where as in Hindu it wants to go to godhead.

The difference is nirvannah isn't really a "state of bliss" like Christian heaven -it's more an end to suffering.

Both stress getting of the wheel of cyclical re-birth, but towards different ends

Re: Who Directs Karma?

karma "is" it's not "good or bad" - that is a western overlay.
It is simply the sum total of all your life and past lives that have brought you to this place.
You can certainly improve or degrade one's karma in terms of the means to end cyclical re-birth

Re: Who Directs Karma?



Karma means action, means "to do". Immediately we have an indication that the real meaning of karma is not fate because karma is action. It is dynamic. But it is more than simply action because it is not mechanical action. It is not unconscious or involuntary action.
It is intentional, conscious, deliberate, willful action.

We can understand by means of this general introduction that karma can be of two varieties -
wholesome karma or good karma and unwholesome karma or bad karma. (much more @ link)

A Basic Buddhism Guide: The Law of Karma

While unwholesome actions produce unwholesome results - suffering, wholesome actions produce wholesome results - happiness. One can interpret wholesome actions in two ways. One can simply regard wholesome actions as avoiding the unwholesome actions, avoiding killing, stealing, sexual misconduct and the rest. Or one can speak of wholesome actions in positive terms.

Re: Who Directs Karma?

Risky Thicket said:

In a recent thread Logicman asked the question "Who directs karma?" I encouraged him to start a thread about it and promised to respond. He apparently elected not to start a thread, but it was a good question.

Here I will preface my response by saying that no one has ever accused me of being an authority on Buddhism. I am not. Also it is important to note that karma is a complex concept and as I understand it karma is defined in varying ways among eastern religions.

Who directs karma?

1. No one. Buddhism does not believe in a creator god.

2. In practical (and simple) terms, you are responsible for your karma. Your karma is a result of your intentions and your actions.

Click to expand...

but WHO is krishna ?

Re: Who Directs Karma?

Risky Thicket said:

Who directs karma?

Click to expand...

I do.

I determine how karma affects me with my actions.

Re: Who Directs Karma?

Risky Thicket said:

In a recent thread Logicman asked the question "Who directs karma?" I encouraged him to start a thread about it and promised to respond. He apparently elected not to start a thread, but it was a good question.

Here I will preface my response by saying that no one has ever accused me of being an authority on Buddhism. I am not. Also it is important to note that karma is a complex concept and as I understand it karma is defined in varying ways among eastern religions.

Who directs karma?

1. No one. Buddhism does not believe in a creator god.

2. In practical (and simple) terms, you are responsible for your karma. Your karma is a result of your intentions and your actions.

Click to expand...

So is good/bad karma objective or relative? If your actions are perceived as good by one person but bad by another, is it good or bad karma? If it is defined internally does that mean that if you believe you are doing a good thing, it's good karma, even if it's actually really bad?

Re: Who Directs Karma?

Paschendale said:

The point being, in Hinduism and Buddhism, there is no exterior intellect doing the judging of what is good and what is bad. It's simply intrinsic to the universe. No creator necessary. I wonder if the Hindu gods are subject to it as well. That's an interesting thought.

Click to expand...

What is good or bad is not arbitrarily decided by God. I'm not sure where you got that idea, but that's not a Christian tradition.

Re: Who Directs Karma?

Nilly said:

So is good/bad karma objective or relative? If your actions are perceived as good by one person but bad by another, is it good or bad karma? If it is defined internally does that mean that if you believe you are doing a good thing, it's good karma, even if it's actually really bad?

Click to expand...

Good is never wholly good, and bad is never wholly bad. To state that something is one thing or the other is what in Buddhism is defined as 'dualistic thinking'. Karma is neither good nor bad, it just is. With the same disclaimer to any conceivable claim or authority, I've always thought of karma as being a theory of natural science, like relativity but without the maths. No one directs karma. Karma is the consequence of actions and their intentions, and that's all of those actions and intentions whether they be identifiable as morally benign, malignant or neutral. Nobody controls karma any more than anyone 'controls' time, or gravity or any other natural force.

Re: Who Directs Karma?

Nilly said:

So is good/bad karma objective or relative? If your actions are perceived as good by one person but bad by another, is it good or bad karma? If it is defined internally does that mean that if you believe you are doing a good thing, it's good karma, even if it's actually really bad?

Click to expand...

the Buddha gave guidance on wholesome karma - the 8 Fold Nobel Path, and various suttas (lectures)

The Noble Eightfold Path: The Way to the End of Suffering

Following the Path, ensures and en to suffering, as well as cyclical re-birth
To be alive is to know suffering -
and while life is much more then suffering being caught up on the Wheel of Life means going thru life over and over.

Only humans can escape (end the cycle) it -so when your karma rebirths you as human,
that is when you need to use the opportunity to escape thru enlightenment

Re: Who Directs Karma?

Andalublue said:

Good is never wholly good, and bad is never wholly bad. To state that something is one thing or the other is what in Buddhism is defined as 'dualistic thinking'. Karma is neither good nor bad, it just is. With the same disclaimer to any conceivable claim or authority, I've always thought of karma as being a theory of natural science, like relativity but without the maths. No one directs karma. Karma is the consequence of actions and their intentions, and that's all of those actions and intentions whether they be identifiable as morally benign, malignant or neutral. Nobody controls karma any more than anyone 'controls' time, or gravity or any other natural force.

Click to expand...

So morality has no bearing on karma? and vice versa?

Re: Who Directs Karma?

The Wheel of Life describes the cause of all evil and its effects, mirrored in earthly phenomena just as it is experienced by everyone from the cradle to the grave.
Picture by picture it reminds us that everyone is always his or her own judge and responsible for their own fate,
because, according to Karma, causes and their effects are the fruits of one's own deeds.

The Wheel of Life is dedicated to all animated beings who have not yet attained the first step of spiritual liberation (Nirvana). It therefore illustrates in a popular way the essence of the Buddhist teachings, the Four Truths: the existence of earthly suffering, its origin and cause, the cessation or prevention of misery and the practice path to liberation from earthly suffering.



Wheel of Life -States of Existence

The Wheel of Life - Aesthetics of Suffering and Salvation

Re: Who Directs Karma?

Nilly said:

So morality has no bearing on karma? and vice versa?

Click to expand...

It depends on how you define morality, and on what you mean by 'has no bearing'. I think what you, and perhaps many in this thread are interested in is: if karma is a process whereby the consequences of behaviour rebound or resound going forward in time, how do we know whether good behaviour results in positive effects and bad behaviour results in negative effects?

What I'm saying is that there's no such thing really as 'good' and 'bad', since nothing is wholly good or bad. Nature just isn't about a bi-polar duality.

Re: Who Directs Karma?

Nilly said:

So is good/bad karma objective or relative? If your actions are perceived as good by one person but bad by another, is it good or bad karma? If it is defined internally does that mean that if you believe you are doing a good thing, it's good karma, even if it's actually really bad?

Click to expand...

Karma stems from your intentions actions not the intentions and actions of others. Karma isn't really "good" or "bad".

What is an example of someone doing something really bad but with really good intentions?

If your intention, from your heart if you like, is to act with loving kindness towards another person I don't know how karma could be negatively affected.

Let me give you quick example. I was raised to hold the door for people if I am at the threshold of a door to a building or in a building, that sort of thing. It used to pissed me off when I would hold a door and a person or if people would walk through and not acknowledge my "good" deed, my generous act.

Who was wrong? Me, not them! Why? My intention. Buddhism taught me to deal with anger, which was how I first became involved with Buddhism.

Anger over door holding acknowledgement was wrong. Stupid, actually.

Why was I angry? Because some people didn't say "thank you".

What was my intention when holding the door? Being honest with myself, my intention was actually to be acknowledged for committing a selfless act. My intention then wasn't based on loving kindness, it wasn't a selfless act. The results of my actions then set me up to be angry. I very much do not enjoy anger. My action could be the same but my intention could change and I could end the possibility of being angry.

Ever since I realized that my intentions were selfish rather than selfless now holding the door for someone is holding the door for someone. It is now my intention to hold the door because it is a small selfless act. No more angry door holding.

Re: Who Directs Karma?

annata said:

The Wheel of Life describes the cause of all evil and its effects, mirrored in earthly phenomena just as it is experienced by everyone from the cradle to the grave.
Picture by picture it reminds us that everyone is always his or her own judge and responsible for their own fate,
because, according to Karma, causes and their effects are the fruits of one's own deeds.

The Wheel of Life is dedicated to all animated beings who have not yet attained the first step of spiritual liberation (Nirvana). It therefore illustrates in a popular way the essence of the Buddhist teachings, the Four Truths: the existence of earthly suffering, its origin and cause, the cessation or prevention of misery and the practice path to liberation from earthly suffering.

Wheel of Life -States of Existence

The Wheel of Life - Aesthetics of Suffering and Salvation

Click to expand...

Annata. It's been a while since I've seen you posting. Good to see you!

Re: Who Directs Karma?

Andalublue said:

Good is never wholly good, and bad is never wholly bad. To state that something is one thing or the other is what in Buddhism is defined as 'dualistic thinking'. Karma is neither good nor bad, it just is. With the same disclaimer to any conceivable claim or authority, I've always thought of karma as being a theory of natural science, like relativity but without the maths. No one directs karma. Karma is the consequence of actions and their intentions, and that's all of those actions and intentions whether they be identifiable as morally benign, malignant or neutral. Nobody controls karma any more than anyone 'controls' time, or gravity or any other natural force.

Click to expand...

Great to see you, Andy.

Re: Who Directs Karma?

Medusa said:

but WHO is krishna ?

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Medusa sweetie. What do you mean? Krishna is an avatar of the Hindu god Vishnu. What more do you want to know?

Re: Who Directs Karma?

Risky Thicket said:

Great to see you, Andy.

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Always a pleasure, Risky-boy! How the samsara are you?

Re: Who Directs Karma?

Andalublue said:

Always a pleasure, Risky-boy! How the samsara are you?

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LOL! Ever present, my good friend. I've been one second away from enlightenment for 1,000 lifetimes.