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Do you believe Jesus??? [W:170]

kjw47 said:
Neither did Jesus or his real teachers--but you will not believe them over schooled mens dogmas out of erred translations

John 20:17, rev 3:12-- did Jesus lie--no.--2Cor 1:3, 1Cor 8:6, 1Cor 15:24-28--1Peter 1:3--- Rev 1:6--neither did his teachers. all in 100% agreement--Jesus has a God--his Father---God does-NOT-- have a God.
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actually he did and mentioned it several times and compared himself to God on several occasions.

In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God.
as the Son of Man Jesus has a god, but as the Son of God Jesus is God.

the JW have distorted the bible and added words to it not found in Greek in order to lower Christ to something other than what he said he was.
yes Jesus knew who he was and so did his disciples.

Peter knew that he was the Son of God.
Thomas went to his knee's and said my Lord and my God. which in that day would have been blasphemy. yet Christ didn't correct him.

the Demons even know that Christ is the Son of God and God. so why don't the JW and the Pharisee's?
 
SMTA said:
Of course you do - denial is at the core of your logic.

Keep repeating it to yourself, though.
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Why are YOU even in here--you obviously do not know very much--try using scripture, You sure aren't caring anything about Jesus' truths--is it a game to you?
 
ludin said:
actually he did and mentioned it several times and compared himself to God on several occasions.

In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God.
as the Son of Man Jesus has a god, but as the Son of God Jesus is God.

the JW have distorted the bible and added words to it not found in Greek in order to lower Christ to something other than what he said he was.
yes Jesus knew who he was and so did his disciples.

Peter knew that he was the Son of God.
Thomas went to his knee's and said my Lord and my God. which in that day would have been blasphemy. yet Christ didn't correct him.

the Demons even know that Christ is the Son of God and God. so why don't the JW and the Pharisee's?
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it is senseless speaking to you--I know it must be hard out of erred translations--even in the early days my teachers erred out of them, until they studied facts of history, old writings, languages, and Gods word.
The JW teachers were allowed into the Vatican archives and came with proofs of the trinity errors in the old writings and proved the errors in the translations, with the trinities own old writings.

Trinity teaching = John 1:1--in the beginning The God was, and the God was with God and the God was God--with another God over there.( HS)
Rev 3:12--God has a God with another God over there(HS)

not reality--there is one God--God does not have a God. The trinity God does not exist-- the translations are erred to try and make it look like that--from Catholicism councils.
Why is it so hard to believe they would make those errors in translation to fit those councils--when they used to burn the members of their own religion for heresy if they thought something was not truth, or tried to translate Gods word so all could read themselves--Do you know Jesus?
 
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kjw47 said:
Why are YOU even in here--you obviously do not know very much--try using scripture, You sure aren't caring anything about Jesus' truths--is it a game to you?
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And the delusional logic continues to magnify and expand.
 
Gringo allstar said:
So one should never mention the gospel... Im not really sure how one would hear the good news if one never heard it?
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Again; you miss the point completely.
 
kjw47 said:
it is senseless speaking to you--I know it must be hard out of erred translations--even in the early days my teachers erred out of them, until they studied facts of history, old writings, languages, and Gods word.
The JW teachers were allowed into the Vatican archives and came with proofs of the trinity errors in the old writings and proved the errors in the translations, with the trinities own old writings.
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The only people that have erred in their translations are the watchtower and the people who translated their bible that had 0 training in biblical languages.
they put there own ideology in their version of the bible which paul warns about those that try to change the bible that they are false prophets.
I am sure some of them were allowed into the Vatican because as it seems a lot of JW's were former catholics.

however they didn't prove any errors they added errors to endorse their ideology. there were no errors.

NWT teaching = John 1:1--in the beginning The God was, and the God was with God and the God was God--with another God over there.( HS)
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I fixed it for you because that is what the NWT teaches not trinitarianism.

Rev 3:12--God has a God with another God over there(HS)
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you can only get there through watchtower distortions has I have already shot this line of distortion down.

not reality--there is one God--God does not have a God. The trinity God does not exist-- the translations are erred to try and make it look like that--from Catholicism councils.
Why is it so hard to believe they would make those errors in translation to fit those councils--when they used to burn the members of their own religion for heresy if they thought something was not truth, or tried to translate Gods word so all could read themselves--Do you know Jesus?
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then you are a polytheist. who believes that Jesus is another God, and the holy spirit is another God, angels are another God. the list goes on and one with the number of God's that JW's have.

I have 1 God. not multiple.

I know Jesus. He is God, the Son of God and the Son of Man.
you think Jesus is Michael. so my Christ and savior is not your Christ and savior.

My Christ and savior can save from sin. yours can't.
 
kjw47 said:
Why are YOU even in here--you obviously do not know very much--try using scripture, You sure aren't caring anything about Jesus' truths--is it a game to you?
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Do you think that insulting others is going to win them to your heretical point of view?
 
nota bene said:
Do you think that insulting others is going to win them to your heretical point of view?
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It is his only recourse at this point, having been busted for the lies and bull****.

His desperation is comical, his delusional viewpoint is hilarious.
 
I wish I thought it were funny, but I don't. I think it's scary and very sad, particularly because he is so sincere.
 
ludin said:
The only people that have erred in their translations are the watchtower and the people who translated their bible that had 0 training in biblical languages.
they put there own ideology in their version of the bible which paul warns about those that try to change the bible that they are false prophets.
I am sure some of them were allowed into the Vatican because as it seems a lot of JW's were former catholics.

however they didn't prove any errors they added errors to endorse their ideology. there were no errors.


I fixed it for you because that is what the NWT teaches not trinitarianism.



you can only get there through watchtower distortions has I have already shot this line of distortion down.



then you are a polytheist. who believes that Jesus is another God, and the holy spirit is another God, angels are another God. the list goes on and one with the number of God's that JW's have.

I have 1 God. not multiple.

I know Jesus. He is God, the Son of God and the Son of Man.
you think Jesus is Michael. so my Christ and savior is not your Christ and savior.

My Christ and savior can save from sin. yours can't.
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You are correct--you do not Jesus.
 
kjw47 said:
You are correct--you do not Jesus.
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this doesn't even make sense.

Your Jesus is not my Jesus. we have 2 different versions one is biblical (mine) one is the watchtower which is a 2000 year old heresy (yours).
Mine is based on the original translations from the apostles themselves. yours is based on the watchtower translation which has distorted scripture and polluted it with their own
ideology.

You believe that Michael is Jesus and when confronted by the fact that he is not Christ you can't refute it you simply re-post the same non-sense instead of actually addressing
the point.

the reason being is that you can't address the point because you don't know how. why? because the only thing you know about the bible is what the watchtower tells you.
you are forbidden from reading anything outside of what the watchtower tells you to read.

why? because the watchtower fears that you will learn about the truth about their deception and their distortion of scripture.

I know Christ very well and he is not your version of Christ. HE is the Alpha and Omega, He is the Great I AM, He is Immanuel which means God with US.
He is the creator of all things, He was God made flesh to die for sin.

Since Michael can't even fight satan without invoking the name of Christ he is not Christ.

9 But when the archangel Michael, contending with the devil, was disputing about the body of Moses, he did not presume to pronounce a blasphemous judgment, but said, “The Lord rebuke you.”

Christ has no issue in rebuking Satan or any other demon. he tells them what to do and they do it.
 
SMTA said:
It is his only recourse at this point, having been busted for the lies and bull****.

His desperation is comical, his delusional viewpoint is hilarious.
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Reality---
Jesus said his followers would no part of this world---yet they must work, go shopping, live in this world so what did Jesus mean? this

No voting, running for office, supporting corrupt govt positions( 2Peter 2:19) No slaughtering one another in their wars of hatred( 1John 3:10-12)-- No participation in the pagan practice filled traditions and celebrations( 1Cor 10:21)--the 4 entertainments( movies, tv, music, video games) are filled with the things God hates--violence, immoral sex, the occult and are now even adding homosexuality as the norm. those who support these are filling the lust of the eyes and flesh)--The sport stars who billions idolize, are being exposed daily( 1Cor 6:9-11)

So what is a follower to do in this satan controlled system.--take in much knowledge( every utterance from God) and become--FISHERS OF MEN. By disowning themselves to be a real follower of Jesus( Matt 16:24). That is what my teachers teach us to do.
Obviously if one is no part of this world--they are way different and Jesus said they would be hated, and ones own family members would be their enemies( spiritually)--
And a real follower of Jesus will-endure till the end being like this( matt 10:22)

It seems to just be a joke to a lot of you, I suppose some mortal lied and told you you are saved or born again, so you do what you want, you continue in your sins. Jesus didn't come to tickle ears on all matters--he came with truth, Gods word is a two edged sword. And Jesus said-Matt 7:21-22( many) 1John 3 makes it clear--- its impossible for a child of God to practice even 1 sin.

They murdered the apostles and Christians because not only were teaching the good news of Jesus and Gods kingdom, love,peace and unity--but as well exposing the table of demons. They would not have it so their hearts filled with hatred enough to kill all of them. And this will occur again at the end of the trib.
 
ludin said:
this doesn't even make sense.

Your Jesus is not my Jesus. we have 2 different versions one is biblical (mine) one is the watchtower which is a 2000 year old heresy (yours).
Mine is based on the original translations from the apostles themselves. yours is based on the watchtower translation which has distorted scripture and polluted it with their own
ideology.

You believe that Michael is Jesus and when confronted by the fact that he is not Christ you can't refute it you simply re-post the same non-sense instead of actually addressing
the point.

the reason being is that you can't address the point because you don't know how. why? because the only thing you know about the bible is what the watchtower tells you.
you are forbidden from reading anything outside of what the watchtower tells you to read.

why? because the watchtower fears that you will learn about the truth about their deception and their distortion of scripture.

I know Christ very well and he is not your version of Christ. HE is the Alpha and Omega, He is the Great I AM, He is Immanuel which means God with US.
He is the creator of all things, He was God made flesh to die for sin.

Since Michael can't even fight satan without invoking the name of Christ he is not Christ.

9 But when the archangel Michael, contending with the devil, was disputing about the body of Moses, he did not presume to pronounce a blasphemous judgment, but said, “The Lord rebuke you.”

Christ has no issue in rebuking Satan or any other demon. he tells them what to do and they do it.
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That's strange Ludin, at the war in heaven--Michael defeats satan and his angels. It was not yet time to fight him before this event. but all know--God taught--Jesus would be the one to bruise satan in the head--and that occurred at the war in heaven.
 
nota bene said:
I wish I thought it were funny, but I don't. I think it's scary and very sad, particularly because he is so sincere.
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it takes great leaps in logic to get where kwj is at with scripture. it is almost the same with some Mormons. it takes great leaps of logic in scripture to come up
with some of their theology.

any time you try to address them they just shout anti-Mormon and don't actually address what is being said.
or they just site what someone else said about it which is nothing more than confirmation bias.

although I would say that Mormons are closer to Christianity than JW's are. there are still some major differences but you can't actually get an honest debate out of them over it.
without them screaming about anti-Mormon. they get down right upset when you point out the differences and then go off the wall about you reading anti-Mormon sites.

Then there is the fact that they have 2 bibles. which is not biblical as Paul says.
3 But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ.
4 For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough. 5 Indeed, I consider that I am not in the least inferior to these super-apostles. 6 Even if I am unskilled in speaking, I am not so in knowledge; indeed, in every way we have made this plain to you in all things.
 
kjw47 said:
That's strange Ludin, at the war in heaven--Michael defeats satan and his angels. It was not yet time to fight him before this event. but all know--God taught--Jesus would be the one to bruise satan in the head--and that occurred at the war in heaven.
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What is your point?

no where in that verse does it say that Michael is Christ. Michael is the highest ranking angel that there is. Scriptures says that Christ is above the angels. so again your point is shot down.

also Revelation 12 where that occurs is not the final fall of satan but is when he was first kicked out of heaven. John is describing the 1st rebellion and where Satan and his followers are expelled from heaven.

that is not the final battle where Satan is thrown into the lake of fire. that doesn't come till later in Revelation.

again it takes great leaps of logic to get where you get with scripture and you ignore all the other passages that says you are wrong.
 
nota bene said:
I wish I thought it were funny, but I don't. I think it's scary and very sad, particularly because he is so sincere.
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I have done some checking around. they are all the same. every single post I have seen by a JW says that same exact thing as the other one.
it is like they have this stuff in a copy paste format and that is exactly what they do.
 
ludin said:
What is your point?

no where in that verse does it say that Michael is Christ. Michael is the highest ranking angel that there is. Scriptures says that Christ is above the angels. so again your point is shot down.

also Revelation 12 where that occurs is not the final fall of satan but is when he was first kicked out of heaven. John is describing the 1st rebellion and where Satan and his followers are expelled from heaven.

that is not the final battle where Satan is thrown into the lake of fire. that doesn't come till later in Revelation.

again it takes great leaps of logic to get where you get with scripture and you ignore all the other passages that says you are wrong.
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Sic'em!

And whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever disobeys the Son will not see life, but the rath of God remains upon him.

The JWs severely bastardize the Bible to accommodate their belief structure, which is blasphemy.

Their word changes are very subtle, but wrong, and heavily skewed to their pathetic logic.

I find their desperation laughable, at best.
 
ludin said:
I have done some checking around. they are all the same. every single post I have seen by a JW says that same exact thing as the other one.
it is like they have this stuff in a copy paste format and that is exactly what they do.
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Robotically trained regurgitation, my friend.

Fascinating that a person can be so engrossed by bull**** and lies.

Not unlike Scientology, Jim Jones, David Koresh, Warren Jeffs, and good old Harold Camping.

People with weak minds are easily led astray.
 
SMTA said:
Sic'em!

And whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever disobeys the Son will not see life, but the rath of God remains upon him.

The JWs severely bastardize the Bible to accommodate their belief structure, which is blasphemy.

Their word changes are very subtle, but wrong, and heavily skewed to their pathetic logic.

I find their desperation laughable, at best.
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they add words and change words in the bible to suit their ideology which is a condemnation.
the perfect example is John 1:1.

the bible says

In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.

The NWT distortion
In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was a God.

now the funny thing is that they add a definite article to the last sentence. but it doesn't need a definite article since in the previous verse the article is already added in the pevious sentence. This is exactly why I say that JW's are polytheist. the problem is that they only follow their own rule about 15% of the time. which means they have a lack of consistantcy and they only follow it when a verse is comparing Christ to God.

however to clear this up again.

What you are referring to is called a "Qualitative Clause".

A Qualitative Clause occurs when two nouns are connected by a state of being verb (am, are, was, were, etc). The definite article "ho" ("the") appears with the noun which is the SUBJECT, and the Predacate Nominative is the noun WITHOUT the definite article. The MEANING of a qualitative clause is "has all of the essential qualities of".

Therefore, "The Word was God" literally means "the Word has ALL THE ESSENTIAL QUALITIES OF GOD".

IE the Word is God.

This is excepted by all greek scholars as the accepted translation. the JW have distorted numerous scholars and cherry picked phrases to change it, however those same scholars have condemned the watchtower for doing so and the watchtower had to retract.
 
SMTA said:
Robotically trained regurgitation, my friend.

Fascinating that a person can be so engrossed by bull**** and lies.

Not unlike Scientology, Jim Jones, David Koresh, Warren Jeffs, and good old Harold Camping.

People with weak minds are easily led astray.
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that is why we need the whole armor of God. in order to combat these types of things.

it is no more worse that people saying God won't send people to hell. It is the same lie that satan told eve and she bought into it as well.

A loving God won't send people to hell yet the bible says the exact opposite.
 
ludin said:
What is your point?

no where in that verse does it say that Michael is Christ. Michael is the highest ranking angel that there is. Scriptures says that Christ is above the angels. so again your point is shot down.

also Revelation 12 where that occurs is not the final fall of satan but is when he was first kicked out of heaven. John is describing the 1st rebellion and where Satan and his followers are expelled from heaven.

that is not the final battle where Satan is thrown into the lake of fire. that doesn't come till later in Revelation.

again it takes great leaps of logic to get where you get with scripture and you ignore all the other passages that says you are wrong.
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Can you understand English? getting bruised in the head is not the lake of fire--that is where satan will be destroyed. the war in heaven is the bruising. Yes satan cast to the earth( war in heaven--but that is the first ride of the white horse of rev 6) righteous war there are only 2--the war in heaven and Harmageddon--harmageddon has not occurred yet( satan will be abyssed here)--then rev 13--the 7 headed beast pops up--see many events after satan is cast to the earth. your teachers are in error.
 
kjw47 said:
Can you understand English? getting bruised in the head is not the lake of fire--that is where satan will be destroyed. the war in heaven is the bruising. Yes satan cast to the earth( war in heaven--but that is the first ride of the white horse of rev 6) righteous war there are only 2--the war in heaven and Harmageddon--harmageddon has not occurred yet( satan will be abyssed here)--then rev 13--the 7 headed beast pops up--see many events after satan is cast to the earth. your teachers are in error.
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I understand it perfectly fine I just pointed out that Christ is higher than the angels so therefore he cannot be Michael since Michael is an angel.
I have posted verse after verse that says CHrist is not Michael you ignore everyone of them.

the question then becomes why do you ignore bible verses that say you are wrong? you do believe the bible don't you?
so the bible is saying that you are wrong why are you not believing it?

no it wasn't. The Seals, bowls and trumpets are God's wrath that will be poured out on the earth.
Rev 6 says nothing of a righteous war just that he is sent out to conquer.

it isn't harmageddon it is Armageddon. which is further down the road.

no you have no idea and NWT is the biggest distortion out there. the only error is what the watchtower teaches.

I have proved your assertions 100% wrong backed up with scripture.
 
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