Eternal suffering in hell= a sadistic lie against God.

Deuteronomy 32:4-- all of Gods ways are justice--he showed what that entails--an eye for an eye--a balanced set of justice scales--no more--no less. Lets apply that to the eternal suffering teaching.

70-90 years of unrepented sinning on one side---- trillions x trillions x trillions, etc of never ending years of suffering as punishment in a place called hellfire.

0 balance--thus a false sadistic teaching against the true God.

reality--symbolism for ones missing out on each new day as it dawns in Gods kingdom eternally--never ending missing out as each new day dawns--no more-no less.

kjw47 said:

Deuteronomy 32:4-- all of Gods ways are justice--he showed what that entails--an eye for an eye--a balanced set of justice scales--no more--no less. Lets apply that to the eternal suffering teaching.

70-90 years of unrepented sinning on one side---- trillions x trillions x trillions, etc of never ending years of suffering as punishment in a place called hellfire.

0 balance--thus a false sadistic teaching against the true God.

reality--symbolism for ones missing out on each new day as it dawns in Gods kingdom eternally--never ending missing out as each new day dawns--no more-no less.

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trillions and trillions of years is a meaningless concept because time itself is meaningless when you're talking about concepts like eternity.

That's why it makes no difference whether someone goes to hell now or 4,000 years ago. It is basically all the same.

kjw47 said:

Deuteronomy 32:4-- all of Gods ways are justice--he showed what that entails--an eye for an eye--a balanced set of justice scales--no more--no less. Lets apply that to the eternal suffering teaching.

70-90 years of unrepented sinning on one side---- trillions x trillions x trillions, etc of never ending years of suffering as punishment in a place called hellfire.

0 balance--thus a false sadistic teaching against the true God.

reality--symbolism for ones missing out on each new day as it dawns in Gods kingdom eternally--never ending missing out as each new day dawns--no more-no less.

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Well I hope you're right, but I don't aim to find out.

kjw47 said:

Deuteronomy 32:4-- all of Gods ways are justice--he showed what that entails--an eye for an eye--a balanced set of justice scales--no more--no less. Lets apply that to the eternal suffering teaching.

70-90 years of unrepented sinning on one side---- trillions x trillions x trillions, etc of never ending years of suffering as punishment in a place called hellfire.

0 balance--thus a false sadistic teaching against the true God.

reality--symbolism for ones missing out on each new day as it dawns in Gods kingdom eternally--never ending missing out as each new day dawns--no more-no less.

Click to expand...

You are aware that this is the same god that killed every first born son of the Egyptians, killed Israelites that were tired of only eating mana, had the Israelites slaughter every man woman and child in some of the cities they conquered, what the ground swallow up a whole entire family, had a whole family killed because one or two men disobeyed god, had people stoned to death for working on the Sabbath, destroyed Sodom and Gamora, flooded the world,sent a plague down because King David had an affair with a woman and had her husband killed in battle so he can take his wife as his own, Let the devil take away a man's wealth and children just to prove a point to the devil and so on? Most of the theme of the old testament is piss God off and he will make you and those around you pay. Perhaps you should bother reading the bible or listen to it on audiobook before making a thread about something you know little to nothing about.

jamesrage said:

You are aware that this is the same god that killed every first born son of the Egyptians, killed Israelites that were tired of only eating mana, had the Israelites slaughter every man woman and child in some of the cities they conquered, what the ground swallow up a whole entire family, had a whole family killed because one or two men disobeyed god, had people stoned to death for working on the Sabbath, destroyed Sodom and Gamora, flooded the world,sent a plague down because King David had an affair with a woman and had her husband killed in battle so he can take his wife as his own, Let the devil take away a man's wealth and children just to prove a point to the devil and so on? Most of the theme of the old testament is piss God off and he will make you and those around you pay. Perhaps you should bother reading the bible or listen to it on audiobook before making a thread about something you know little to nothing about.

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God is righteous--he killed wicked--the Egyptians would have handed false god worship down to those children--so now in the resurrection--they didn't live totally wicked lives they will be given an opportunity to learn and apply truth and gain life everlasting, I would take that over this world anytime. its not so easy living righteous in a wicked world ruled by satan.
Actually the Israelites showed greed by collecting way to many birds that they couldn't possibly eat before they rotted.
The only people on earth who actually knew God were the Israelites--all other were wicked to the core-serving false gods, pagan practices, even sacrificing their own children to stone gods having orgies as worship--wicked--(wicked thoughts ruled their hearts.

Sodom and Gommorah--Lot and his family--the only servants of God--Angels visited Lot and his family--the men brought the young boys seeking sex with the strangers( angels) they were paedophiles and homosexuals. = wicked.

Satan challenged God in front of all spirit beings witnessing that event--he said no one would serve God under bad circumstances--- thus we get to prove satan wrong--- Job knew his children would be resurrected.
God sent his son to die for you, and me. that is love. I doubt you could do it.

It is you who do not know the true God( Jehovah)-- this is Gods earth--he sets the rules.

If you have read the bible--this is what I get

Noahs day--99% wicked--99% false religions
Israelite kings apostocised over and over= 99% mislead-99% false religions
Jesus, apostles, Christians all murdered= 99% mislead-99% false religions
These last days-- nothing has changed.
They do not know Jehovah.

Dayton3 said:

trillions and trillions of years is a meaningless concept because time itself is meaningless when you're talking about concepts like eternity.

That's why it makes no difference whether someone goes to hell now or 4,000 years ago. It is basically all the same.

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If you know the bible it clearly teaches on the day of ones death--ALL thought stops---it wouldn't matter where one went. I am correct in my op.

kjw47 said:

God is righteous--he killed wicked--the Egyptians would have handed false god worship down to those children-

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That doesn't fly due to the fact that when the Israelites pissed God off God punished the children and grandchildren as well.Surely some other hebrews could have taken in those children and taught them how to live right.

Actually the Israelites showed greed by collecting way to many birds that they couldn't possibly eat before they rotted.

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That was not the only time God killed Hebrews during their exodus from egypt.

The only people on earth who actually knew God were the Israelites--all other were wicked to the core-serving false gods, pagan practices, even sacrificing their own children to stone gods having orgies as worship--wicked--(wicked thoughts ruled their hearts.

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The people during King David's time had nothing to do with David taking a census or having an affair,and basically having the woman's husband killed in battle so that David may take his wife.God killed 70,000 people because of what David did,not what those 70,000 people did.

Satan challenged God in front of all spirit beings witnessing that event--he said no one would serve God under bad circumstances--- thus we get to prove satan wrong--- Job knew his children would be resurrected.

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That is not true.If that was true then Job wouldn't have cursed the day he was born, he wouldn't have wished that he was never born.
[

kjw47 said:

Deuteronomy 32:4-- all of Gods ways are justice--he showed what that entails--an eye for an eye--a balanced set of justice scales--no more--no less. Lets apply that to the eternal suffering teaching.

70-90 years of unrepented sinning on one side---- trillions x trillions x trillions, etc of never ending years of suffering as punishment in a place called hellfire.

0 balance--thus a false sadistic teaching against the true God.

reality--symbolism for ones missing out on each new day as it dawns in Gods kingdom eternally--never ending missing out as each new day dawns--no more-no less.

Click to expand...

yet another JW distortion. and a mistake made by Mormons as well.

Jesus says the exact opposite and so does the bible. so why do you not believe Jesus and the bible?

revelation 20
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

jamesrage said:

That doesn't fly due to the fact that when the Israelites pissed God off God punished the children and grandchildren as well.Surely some other hebrews could have taken in those children and taught them how to live right.

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true but that is the covenant that they made to obey God in everything. Depending upon the amount of wickedness death could be the result.
usually it was enslavement to the surrounding Canaanites.

That was not the only time God killed Hebrews during their exodus from egypt.

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Nope but then again punishment for disobedience can lead to death.

That is not true.If that was true then Job wouldn't have cursed the day he was born, he wouldn't have wished that he was never born.
[

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Again true he had just lost everything and didn't know why. To him he had committed the most grievous of sin of some kind.
yet Job never lost faith nor did he curse God and was given 10x back.

WHAT JESUS CHRIST SAYS ABOUT HELL!

"fire" Matt 7:19, 13:40, 25:41
"everlasting fire" Matt 18:8, 25:41
"eternal damnation" Mark 3:29
"hell fire" Matt 5:22, 18:9, Mark 9:47
"damnation" Matt 23:14, Mark 12:40, Luke 20:47
"damnation of hell" Matt 23:33
"resurrection of damnation" John 5:29
"furnace of fire" Matt 13:42, 50
"the fire that never shall be quenched" Mark 9:43, 45
"the fire is not quenched" Mark 9:44, 46, 48
"Where their worm dieth not" Mark 9:44, 46, 48
"wailing and gnashing of teeth" Matt 13:42, 50
"weeping and gnashing of teeth" Matt 8:12, 22:13, 25:30
"torments" Luke 16:23
"tormented in this flame" Luke 16:24
"place of torment" Luke 16:28
"outer darkness" Matt 8:12, 22:13
"everlasting punishment" Matt 25:46

HELL IS A PLACE OF FIRE

The man in Luke 16:24 cries: ". . .I am tormented in this FLAME."
In Matthew 13:42, Jesus says: "And shall cast them into a FURNACE OF FIRE: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."
In Matthew 25:41, Jesus says: "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting FIRE,. . ."
Revelation 20:15 says, " And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the LAKE OF FIRE."

HELL IS FOREVER!

The Truth About Hell

Video - 23 Minutes in Hell

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCq0mVsZdp4

ludin said:

true but that is the covenant that they made to obey God in everything. Depending upon the amount of wickedness death could be the result.
usually it was enslavement to the surrounding Canaanites..



Nope but then again punishment for disobedience can lead to death.

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If that only applied to the parents then that would be one thing. But in the old testament God did not just punish the sinner, he also punished the kids,grand-kids and other people in that sinner's family who did not sin. Numbers 16:32 is an example of this.32 "and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them and their households, and all those associated with Korah, together with their possessions."

Again true he had just lost everything and didn't know why. To him he had committed the most grievous of sin of some kind.
yet Job never lost faith nor did he curse God and was given 10x back

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Loved ones are not replaceable commodities. I do not know about you but I would be mad as **** if my loved ones died just because someone wanted to make a point to someone else.

jamesrage said:

If that only applied to the parents then that would be one thing. But in the old testament God did not just punish the sinner, he also punished the kids,grand-kids and other people in that sinner's family who did not sin. Numbers 16:32 is an example of this.32 "and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them and their households, and all those associated with Korah, together with their possessions."




Loved ones are not replaceable commodities. I do not know about you but I would be mad as **** if my loved ones died just because someone wanted to make a point to someone else.

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the Lord given and the Lord taketh away and in His rule all things are made right.

as for numbers 16 you have to read the whole passage. 3 groups of families rose up against Moses and Aaron. they tried a coup against their leadership.
they were found unworthy in Gods sight and in order to cleanse the encampment from all those that rebelled they were killed all and anyone that sided with them.

for if He would have spared them their next families members could have risen up later as well.
you also have to remember that they are still in the wilderness and have been wondering around for 30 years and are probably half way through that.

ludin said:

yet another JW distortion. and a mistake made by Mormons as well.

Jesus says the exact opposite and so does the bible. so why do you not believe Jesus and the bible?

revelation 20
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Click to expand...

Well, as far as I can se, Revelation is from John, not Jesus. It does not say it's from Jesus.

RAMOSS said:

Well, as far as I can se, Revelation is from John, not Jesus. It does not say it's from Jesus.

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semantics is not an argument.
The bible is the Word of God.

Who was the Word? Jesus thanks have a nice day.

ludin said:

semantics is not an argument.
The bible is the Word of God.

Who was the Word? Jesus thanks have a nice day.

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Now, that is an interesting turn of phrase, 'Word of God'. To most Christians, it means 'The Word From God'. To the Jewish faith, the concept is 'the word ABOUT God'.

It was a very narrow vote to include Revelation in the canon or not. If just a few Bishops at the Council of Laodicea in the late 4th century voted just slightly different, it never would have made it. Some Christian groups reject it all together.

The symbolism in it is so heavy and obscure, you can twist it to be anything you want. However, it's great for people who want to use an inkblot for their theology.

RAMOSS said:

However, it's great for people who want to use an inkblot for their theology.

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Once again you're completely in the dark.

You don't even embrace OT Judaism, do you?

Logicman said:

Once again you're completely in the dark.

You don't even embrace OT Judaism, do you?

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There is no such thing as 'OT Judaism'. The Jewish scriptures are not 'OT', they are the Jewish scriptures. It does not appear you have a clue at all about the Jewish religion.

RAMOSS said:

There is no such thing as 'OT Judaism'. The Jewish scriptures are not 'OT', they are the Jewish scriptures. It does not appear you have a clue at all about the Jewish religion.

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So you embrace the Tanakh or not?

RAMOSS said:

Now, that is an interesting turn of phrase, 'Word of God'. To most Christians, it means 'The Word From God'. To the Jewish faith, the concept is 'the word ABOUT God'.

It was a very narrow vote to include Revelation in the canon or not. If just a few Bishops at the Council of Laodicea in the late 4th century voted just slightly different, it never would have made it. Some Christian groups reject it all together.

The symbolism in it is so heavy and obscure, you can twist it to be anything you want. However, it's great for people who want to use an inkblot for their theology.

Click to expand...

this says a whole lot of nothing and does nothing to disprove anything I said.
the fact is well it is part of cannon.

A lot of people don't like revelation because it reveals Gods wrath upon the wicked and unrighteous. If you look at the punishments that are being poured out onto the world.
it is quite gruesome.

Logicman said:

Once again you're completely in the dark.

You don't even embrace OT Judaism, do you?

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I do believe that he is orthodox jew or jewish of some sort that still rejects Christ as the messiah.

Logicman said:

So you embrace the Tanakh or not?

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I do not think you know what that would mean in the Jewish context.. so it doesn't matter what I answer, one way or another. It would not have any meaning to you.

ludin said:

this says a whole lot of nothing and does nothing to disprove anything I said.
the fact is well it is part of cannon.

A lot of people don't like revelation because it reveals Gods wrath upon the wicked and unrighteous. If you look at the punishments that are being poured out onto the world.
it is quite gruesome.

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And, a lot of people have hugely interpretations of it. For example, there are a number of people who say that it is entirely about the relationship of CHristians with the roman empire. Then there are peopel who think it's about eschology and the end of the world. I think the later folks are just plain crazy, myself.

ludin said:

for if He would have spared them their next families members could have risen up later as well.
you also have to remember that they are still in the wilderness and have been wondering around for 30 years and are probably half way through that.

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If you real the whole bible then you know that other families rise up too.So by that logic God should have just wiped other families too before they get a chance to rise up to.

RAMOSS said:

And, a lot of people have hugely interpretations of it. For example, there are a number of people who say that it is entirely about the relationship of CHristians with the roman empire. Then there are peopel who think it's about eschology and the end of the world. I think the later folks are just plain crazy, myself.

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you can think what you want. The fact is the book of revelation is both dealing with current and future events.

jamesrage said:

If you real the whole bible then you know that other families rise up too.So by that logic God should have just wiped other families too before they get a chance to rise up to.

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yea but they were given a chance to escape. only the people that stood with those 3 families were destroyed the rest were saved.
God showing grace and mercy against a group of people that rose up against their leader.