• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Closer To Truth

Amadeus

Amadeus

Chews the Cud
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 29, 2013
Messages
6,081
Reaction score
3,216
Location
Benghazi
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
Has anyone watched this show? It's on the I-Channel in Canada. You can also watch some episodes on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/user/CloserToTruth1/videos

The host of the show examines questions surrounding God. He gathers viewpoints from atheists, scientists, rabbis, and theistic philosophers. I have never seen such a balanced and honest examination of God. There is no attempt by the host to persuade people that God does or doesn't exist.

I was watching it today and it was discussing the degree of God's omniscience (e.g. is he all-knowing, is he a linear being, or does his consciousness exist throughout time-and-space, past-and-present simultaneously).
 
Amadeus said:
Has anyone watched this show? It's on the I-Channel in Canada. You can also watch some episodes on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/user/CloserToTruth1/videos

The host of the show examines questions surrounding God. He gathers viewpoints from atheists, scientists, rabbis, and theistic philosophers. I have never seen such a balanced and honest examination of God. There is no attempt by the host to persuade people that God does or doesn't exist.

I was watching it today and it was discussing the degree of God's omniscience (e.g. is he all-knowing, is he a linear being, or does his consciousness exist throughout time-and-space, past-and-present simultaneously).
Click to expand...

It is the latter. God exists outside of time.
 
it's just me said:
It is the latter. God exists outside of time.
Click to expand...

Well, it did take a week to create the Earth. It is convenient to say that God exists outside of time and space, but it is not biblically accurate.
 
Amadeus said:
Well, it did take a week to create the Earth. It is convenient to say that God exists outside of time and space, but it is not biblically accurate.
Click to expand...

Really? Then give me the Biblically accutate version.
 
it's just me said:
Really? Then give me the Biblically accutate version.
Click to expand...

It is biblically accurate to say that God not only exists within time and space, but is bound to it. He makes decisions based on the present and the past, not the future. The great flood, for example -- a temporarily solution (genocide) to a problem that exists within the species (sin), and would arise again. I see no other way of viewing the Judeo-Christian God other than linearly.

As for a non-Christian God that is not bound to the Bible... well, that's anyone's guess.
 
Amadeus said:
It is biblically accurate to say that God not only exists within time and space, but is bound to it. He makes decisions based on the present and the past, not the future. The great flood, for example -- a temporarily solution (genocide) to a problem that exists within the species (sin), and would arise again. I see no other way of viewing the Judeo-Christian God other than linearly.

As for a non-Christian God that is not bound to the Bible... well, that's anyone's guess.
Click to expand...

Old testament god was very much tied to time. Constantly correcting course doesn't display externality.
 
Amadeus said:
It is biblically accurate to say that God not only exists within time and space, but is bound to it. He makes decisions based on the present and the past, not the future. The great flood, for example -- a temporarily solution (genocide) to a problem that exists within the species (sin), and would arise again. I see no other way of viewing the Judeo-Christian God other than linearly.

As for a non-Christian God that is not bound to the Bible... well, that's anyone's guess.
Click to expand...

So I guess all of those prophecies concerning Christ and the Church were just good guesses?
 
it's just me said:
So I guess all of those prophecies concerning Christ and the Church were just good guesses?
Click to expand...

Yes, God's prophecies concerning himself (Jesus) came true. Talk about a self-fulfilling prophecy.
 
Amadeus said:
Well, it did take a week to create the Earth. It is convenient to say that God exists outside of time and space, but it is not biblically accurate.
Click to expand...

The Bible was written by men. Men are fallible. While I do agree with what the Bible says, I wouldn't bet my soul on the accuracy of time.
 
Superfly said:
The Bible was written by men. Men are fallible. While I do agree with what the Bible says, I wouldn't bet my soul on the accuracy of time.
Click to expand...

I agree, but that's a big problem for those who believe that the Bible is literally true. If the Bible is prone to inaccuracies and is not the literal word of God, then it can be an evolving document. Which I think would be a beneficial acknowledgement and a healthy way of viewing the religion. Just my opinion as a non-theist.
 
Amadeus said:
Any god worth his salt can make the sun go dark.
Click to expand...

I agree. I was addressing a perceived argument that the disciples jerry-rigged the prophecies to make them come true. They sure can't make the sun go dark, can they!
 
Amadeus said:
I agree, but that's a big problem for those who believe that the Bible is literally true. If the Bible is prone to inaccuracies and is not the literal word of God, then it can be an evolving document. Which I think would be a beneficial acknowledgement and a healthy way of viewing the religion. Just my opinion as a non-theist.
Click to expand...

God did a great service to mankind--He sent his son to teach us truth-- And at his sons baptism, God spoke from heaven( handing all the key to the door of his kingdom) --- This is my son the beloved in whom I am well pleased--LISTEN TO HIM( KEY)--- listening entails---learning every single truth he taught and applying every single truth he taught.( pick and choose--does not work ever) Few bother---- Jesus, truths are --NOT--taught in a building called a church--they are far removed.
I have started threads in many sights with 6 major teachings from Jesus--rejected as false by every trinity follower and teacher who sees them---yet are in every translation unaltered on earth---God preserved them for mankind so truth could not be hidden. it is astounding. these teachers-2Thess 2:3--2Cor 11:12-15--a disunified mass of confusion( 1Cor 1:10)

God does--NOT--see all of the future--God sees what his will is and will be no matter what.
 
Amadeus said:
Well, it did take a week to create the Earth. It is convenient to say that God exists outside of time and space, but it is not biblically accurate.
Click to expand...

the Genesis account was not to be taken literally, that's been known for thousands of years, it's only been taken totally literally over the last 150 or so years by some nuts in the US.

all ancient theologicans, from Jewish theologicans like Philo to Christian ones like Origen, knew plainly that Genesis was not a literal account.

It is biblically accurate to say that God not only exists within time and space, but is bound to it. He makes decisions based on the present and the past, not the future. The great flood, for example -- a temporarily solution (genocide) to a problem that exists within the species (sin), and would arise again. I see no other way of viewing the Judeo-Christian God other than linearly.

As for a non-Christian God that is not bound to the Bible... well, that's anyone's guess.
Click to expand...

Not the case at all, the entire theme of the bible is the messianic promise ...

I agree, but that's a big problem for those who believe that the Bible is literally true. If the Bible is prone to inaccuracies and is not the literal word of God, then it can be an evolving document. Which I think would be a beneficial acknowledgement and a healthy way of viewing the religion. Just my opinion as a non-theist.
Click to expand...

My opinion from a theist to a non-theist, is that non-theists learn a little bit about the history of theology, and theology, and biblical hermenutics before they go trashing religion and the bible.

When atheists go trash religion in such unsophisticated ways, it's literally just like when a fundementalist goes against evolution by saying "if we came from monkeys why are there still monkeys around?"
 
RGacky3 said:
When atheists go trash religion in such unsophisticated ways, it's literally just like when a fundementalist goes against evolution by saying "if we came from monkeys why are there still monkeys around?"
Click to expand...

Which is why I have been calling them fundamentalist atheists for years.
 
Apes. Not monkeys, apes.
 
RGacky3 said:
the Genesis account was not to be taken literally, that's been known for thousands of years, it's only been taken totally literally over the last 150 or so years by some nuts in the US.
Click to expand...

I don't take your word on anything, no offense. Many theists take the Bible literally. In fact, a good percentage of the American population does.

My opinion from a theist to a non-theist, is that non-theists learn a little bit about the history of theology, and theology, and biblical hermenutics before they go trashing religion and the bible.
Click to expand...

1) I'm not trashing religion or the Bible. Calling the Judeo-Christian God linear is not trashing the Bible. It is calling a spade a spade.

2) Get over yourself. You're not the be-all and end-all of theistic opinion. You certainly pretend you are, but you're far from it.
 
Amadeus said:
Any god worth his salt can make the sun go dark.
Click to expand...


What I find interesting is what an incredibly low bar was set for 'proving' this 'miracle'. We have an apologist in Eusebius quoting Julius Africanus who alluded to maybe there was a solar eclipse at about the same time. So, someone quoting someone else, the original source which is lost, who quoted yet another person , whose original source is gone about a solar eclipse that happened, which might or might not be around the time that this miracle happened. To make things worse, we know that there are forgeries happening around the same time that is alleged to be the original source.

And all this is 'documenting' a miracle?? That essay is a lot of presumptions and patting on the back for making very weak claims whose importance is blown out of proportion. Good for the faithful to reassure themselves, but not something a rational person would accept.
 
Amadeus said:
I don't take your word on anything, no offense. Many theists take the Bible literally. In fact, a good percentage of the American population does.
Click to expand...

Don't take my Word for it, read Philo, Origen, Augustine, Gregory, and all ancient christian and jewish theologians.

1) I'm not trashing religion or the Bible. Calling the Judeo-Christian God linear is not trashing the Bible. It is calling a spade a spade.

2) Get over yourself. You're not the be-all and end-all of theistic opinion. You certainly pretend you are, but you're far from it.
Click to expand...


1. Fair enough.

2. No but it's obvious that you haven't read any christian theology .... if you want to give some Critical advice to religious folk, then know what they've already done and thought and believe.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom