The incidents at Eden.

God created mortals to know only good, he clearly saw knowing good and bad--was not good for --FLESH. Nor can mortals see the ripple effects certain actions may cause to effect others lives and happiness. The world be a Eden( paradise) everything in harmony with each other--all motives out of love. All dealings, out of love. No diseases, no pain, fear, hatred, wars, sickness, aging, starvation, greed, lusts, lying, cheating, etc,etc--the list is endless. No death.
Gods word teaches this higher up angel( called satan and devil--after eden) got jealous and wanted--worship. he rebelled and lied to Eve to cause all of this sick system of things. He told her she would not die if she ate of the tree of knowledge of good and bad--she fell for it and rebelled as well Adam followed.
This is the reality of what occurred------

When satan told Eve, they would become like God, knowing good and bad--he was saying--if we knew both sides ourselves, we wouldn't need Gods advice to live life to find true happiness( lasting)
A direct challenge in front of all creation( millions of spirit beings, 2 mortals) God could have killed them on the spot, but then, no one ever born would have been, we had the right( with justice involved) Deut 32:4)
God could probably see 1/3 of angels fell as well later--that if he killed them--it would keep happening over and over( interference_

So once and for all time it is being proven--Dopes mortal man( woman) need God to direct their steps and know only good? We all are making this choice now( deut 30:19)
By actions. It is almost done--Mankinds only remaining hope in such a dark world= Gods kingdom.

After the heavenly conflict between Lucifer and God, God sought a way to prove, once and for all, that he was sovereign and should be obeyed. To do this, he created man with free will. Man used that free will to go against God's sovereignty in eating from the Tree of Knowledge and learning right from wrong so as to make his own decisions.

As imperfect and fallen humans, without the direct presence of God (as angels), we are to rise to the occasion and establish His sovereignty through merely faith.

This will end the heavenly conflict and establish God's sovereignty before all of heaven and earth.


That's why God created man with free will, to reproduce the heavenly conflict and reach a resolution for all of creation.

ecofarm said:

After the heavenly conflict between Lucifer and God, God sought a way to prove, once and for all, that he was sovereign and should be obeyed. To do this, he created man with free will. Man used that free will to go against God's sovereignty in eating from the Tree of Knowledge and learning right from wrong so as to make his own decisions.

As imperfect and fallen humans, without the direct presence of God (as angels), we are to rise to the occasion and establish His sovereignty through merely faith.

This will end the heavenly conflict and establish God's sovereignty before all of heaven and earth.


That's why God created man with free will, to reproduce the heavenly conflict and reach a resolution for all of creation.

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God created all beings--spirit-mortal with free will-- otherwise they would be like robots--instead God saw it best if they could--CHOOSE--by themselves to listen to God and know he is right on all matters. And we are making that choice-Deuteronomy 30:19--- few know this. I would say 95% action is involved in proof of a choice.
And here is a super ultra gazillion million bottom line reality of -ALL--truth-- John 4:22-24--the Father-Jehovah--few do this. Few are taught this.

There was a war in heaven-- satan and his angels have been cast to the vicinity of the earth--

kjw47 said:

God created all beings--spirit-mortal with free will-- otherwise they would be like robots--instead God saw it best if they could--CHOOSE--by themselves to listen to God and know he is right on all matters.

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Good point. We might still note the difference between humans and angels - humans are not in the direct presence of God. That's why our faith is more, that's why we are placed above angels in heaven.

And we are making that choice-Deuteronomy 30:19--- few know this. I would say 95% action is involved in proof of a choice.
And here is a super ultra gazillion million bottom line reality of -ALL--truth-- John 4:22-24--the Father-Jehovah--few do this. Few are taught this.

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Explain with more detail?

There was a war in heaven-- satan and his angels have been cast to the vicinity of the earth--

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Most do not know the war in heaven provided the impetus for the creation of man and our purposeful temporary distance from God.

ecofarm said:

Good point. We might still note the difference between humans and angels - humans are not in the direct presence of God. That's why our faith is more, that's why we are placed above angels in heaven.



Explain with more detail?



Most do not know the war in heaven provided the impetus for the creation of man and our purposeful temporary distance from God.

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Mortals aren't above angels--Gods word teaches Jesus was made--lower than the angels as a mortal man. And Jesus taught this of his anointed teachers--- Per-se--Whatever you don't do( or do) to these the -least- of these my brothers,( anointed teachers on earth-mortal) you do to me.
( in Gods kingdom sitting on thrones--these( luke 12:32) the little flock=the anointed, the bride of Christ--literally numbered-144,000 --bought from the earth( Rev 14:3) helping judge those on earth and fallen angels. Only these have that priviledge.



Deut 30:19--God used as a witness to all the heavens and the earth-- that before each of us he has set--life or death.--We, each individual, must choose( 95% action-5% words) which we choose by our choices in this lifetime. Do we give God--our whole heart, soul, mind and strength, daily or seek money and pleasure( the worlds path) and have little to no time for the table of God.


The war in heaven-Rev6-Rev 12--happens in the last days.

kjw47 said:

The war in heaven-Rev6-Rev 12--happens in the last days.

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The war in heaven began before God created man. This is clear in Lucifer's defiance of God's will in Eden.

ecofarm said:

The war in heaven began before God created man. This is clear in Lucifer's defiance of God's will in Eden.

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A rebellion occurred thousands of years ago. --the war began early in these last days--Rev 6--the first ride of the white( righteous) horse-means righteous war--the war in heaven--explained at rev 12) Michael rides against satan and his angels --Michael wins--casts satan and his angels to earth( never allowed back in heaven)--he comes as a devouring lion, angry, knowing his time is short( 1914) the turning point in mankinds history--satan filled men' hearts with hatred all over the earth, millions slaughtered--( post war--millions upon millions died all over the earth from starvation, diseases, pestilence,( few know this) etc( other 3 riders) from the filth left behind by the slaughter of millions of human beings. But a disguise for the true purpose--stopping the preaching work which had begun, with--the good news of Gods kingdom. He stopped it temporary--but when those who applied Jesus teachings and refused to stand on both sides of the same war, blowing each others heads off, went to prision--got out and the preaching work came back stronger than ever. Satan' attack on Jesus' seed failed. And he keeps trying.
Then a second ride of the White horse( righteous war) will occur--Jesus the rider at Har-mageddon.
Gods kingdom takes control of all creation.