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Pope Francis: Doggie Heaven Is Real.....

DO Animals have Souls?

  • Total voters
    13
Paleocon said:
Finding a way through a maze does not require abstract reasoning.
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They have a video, shows them dumping out over 2000 different toys. With the dog being able to pick out whatever specific item even when buried by other things. This would deduce reasoning.
 
MMC said:
They have a video, shows them dumping out over 2000 different toys. With the dog being able to pick out whatever specific item even when buried by other things. This would deduce reasoning.
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That shows understanding of complex particulars, not universals.
 
Do animals have souls? My first impression would be no, but I'm open to evidence that shows otherwise. The existence of the "soul" is not something that is currently verifiable for even humans (which are animals as well btw). Plus, why would a dog go to heaven? Have they accepted Jesus Christ as their personal savior let alone Catholicism? :lol:

I would also submit to everyone here that other animals are naturally atheists, as they do not have nor need a concept of God(s).
 
Ontologuy said:
The religious term "soul", a part of us in the corporeal here and now that may have lived before our bodily organism and or lives on after our bodily organism dies, may be what physicists refer to as the photon zero-point field of dark matter that has almost an infinite frequency range.

If a specific compatible zero-point field of frequency can be "received" by a specific brain's unique frequency receiver, and that living entity contains dark matter, thus meaning that frequency of the zero-point field may be present, then perhaps we have our answer.

Humans do contain dark matter, a scientifically proven fact..
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No, it isn't. While most cosmologists believe dark matter exists and will eventually be proven to exist, the presumed particle has not yet been found. Also, there are other theories about the missing mass that could be correct without the existence of dark matter.

According to consensus among cosmologists, dark matter is composed primarily of a not yet characterized type of subatomic particle.[8][9] The search for this particle, by a variety of means, is one of the major efforts in particle physics today.[10]
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Although the existence of dark matter is generally accepted by the mainstream scientific community, some alternative theories of gravity have been proposed, such as MOND and TeVeS, which try to account for the anomalous observations without requiring additional matter.
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Dark matter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Moderator's Warning:
In case anyone hasn't noticed, this is in the Religion Forum, and all RDF rules apply. Disputing the existence of God, or general religion-bashing, is specifically prohibited here; you can indulge in it in other subforums all you wish. In this forum a civil respectfulness for others' religious/spiritual beliefs is required.
 
MMC said:
They have a video, shows them dumping out over 2000 different toys. With the dog being able to pick out whatever specific item even when buried by other things. This would deduce reasoning.
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Greetings, MMC. :2wave:

:agree: For a dog to be able to associate an object with a word is amazing! How long would it take us if someone was speaking a little used foreign language and showing us something - and further consider if we had to remember and retain 2000 of those foreign words, some of which might only be used occasionally? :eek: I think I'd fail! :lol:
 
Goshin said:
No, it isn't. While most cosmologists believe dark matter exists and will eventually be proven to exist, the presumed particle has not yet been found. Also, there are other theories about the missing mass that could be correct without the existence of dark matter. Dark matter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Sorry -- I meant dark energy.

The older I get, the more I keep making this mistake.
 
Ontologuy said:
Sorry -- I meant dark energy.

The older I get, the more I keep making this mistake.
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Ok, but dark energy, though a widely accepted scientific theory, has never been detected or measured except through indirect effects... and there are competing theories, such a string theory and brane theory, that dispute the existence of dark energy. So its status as proven scientific fact is actually debatable, like a lot of things in cosmology. :shrug:
 
So I Googled around, found the NY Times article, and am posting below its correction to its original story:

Correction: December 12, 2014

An earlier version of this article misstated the circumstances of Pope Francis’ remarks. He made them in a general audience at the Vatican, not in consoling a distraught boy whose dog had died. The article also misstated what Francis is known to have said. According to Vatican Radio, Francis said: “The Holy Scripture teaches us that the fulfillment of this wonderful design also affects everything around us,” which was interpreted to mean he believes animals go to heaven. Francis is not known to have said: “One day, we will see our animals again in the eternity of Christ. Paradise is open to all of God’s creatures.'’ (Those remarks were once made by Pope Paul VI to a distraught child, and were cited in a Corriere della Sera article that concluded Francis believes animals go to heaven.) An earlier version also referred incompletely to the largest animal protection group in the United States. It is the Humane Society of the United States, not just the Humane Society. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/12/w...eaven-pope-leaves-pearly-gate-open-.html?_r=0
 
Don't know if they do, but it seems like this Pope has a soul.
 
polgara said:
Perhaps MMC is correct in his belief that animals have a soul that is not evil. Only humans are given the choice between good and evil, animals do not have to make that choice. They are what they need to be to survive. Is an alligator evil? Animals don't start wars that could end their species like humans do, so that makes them smarter than we are, IMO. Has there ever been a time on earth when we weren't warlike - we sure don't seem to have advanced much in that regard. We have advanced so much in knowledge of things like health, technology and space travel, but we still keep looking for new ways to annihilate each other. What causes that flaw in some of us that has not been corrected in millions of years?
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Well, this gets into some rather sticky territory. I'm not really convinced that there are evil souls. There are people who don't act in accordance with what I will call the "higher" self, but everyone is working toward that slowly. I don't believe in the concept of one life, one chance. I am much more inclined toward believing that we evolve, and go in and out of physical form, and that the natural process is to learn, grow, improve, try new things, and that we are always in the process of "becoming". IF there is any such thing as an evil soul, I don't believe that it is specific to an individual. Iow, there isn't an evil person whose name is lizzie or Polgara. People may blast me for that, but it makes no difference to me. We are all a part of the same thing. We are only separated in that we think ourselves to be.
I don't think of us as any more evil than animals. We just have the ability to think, thus we can act independently of our natures, but that doesn't mean we are evil.
 
nota bene said:
So I Googled around, found the NY Times article, and am posting below its correction to its original story:

Correction: December 12, 2014

An earlier version of this article misstated the circumstances of Pope Francis’ remarks. He made them in a general audience at the Vatican, not in consoling a distraught boy whose dog had died. The article also misstated what Francis is known to have said. According to Vatican Radio, Francis said: “The Holy Scripture teaches us that the fulfillment of this wonderful design also affects everything around us,” which was interpreted to mean he believes animals go to heaven. Francis is not known to have said: “One day, we will see our animals again in the eternity of Christ. Paradise is open to all of God’s creatures.'’ (Those remarks were once made by Pope Paul VI to a distraught child, and were cited in a Corriere della Sera article that concluded Francis believes animals go to heaven.) An earlier version also referred incompletely to the largest animal protection group in the United States. It is the Humane Society of the United States, not just the Humane Society. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/12/w...eaven-pope-leaves-pearly-gate-open-.html?_r=0
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I'd also point out that the Pope Paul VI quote is itself apocryphal.
 
Paleocon said:
That shows understanding of complex particulars, not universals.
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Here they discovered dogs use reasoning.




Study: Dogs Show Reasoning Previously Only Seen in Humans.....

But the new research, reported by the Washington Post, shows that canines might also think about how to imitate another dog's behavior by considering the circumstances of the original action — a form of reasoning until now seen only in humans.

"What's surprising and shocking about this is that we thought this sort of imitation was very sophisticated, something seen only in humans," Brian Hare, a researcher at the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Germany, told the Post. "Once again, it ends up dogs are smarter than scientists thought."....snip~

Study: Dogs Show Reasoning Previously Only Seen in Humans | Fox News
 
MMC said:
Here they discovered dogs use reasoning.




Study: Dogs Show Reasoning Previously Only Seen in Humans.....

But the new research, reported by the Washington Post, shows that canines might also think about how to imitate another dog's behavior by considering the circumstances of the original action — a form of reasoning until now seen only in humans.

"What's surprising and shocking about this is that we thought this sort of imitation was very sophisticated, something seen only in humans," Brian Hare, a researcher at the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Germany, told the Post. "Once again, it ends up dogs are smarter than scientists thought."....snip~

Study: Dogs Show Reasoning Previously Only Seen in Humans | Fox News
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Do you not know the diff emcee between a particular and a universal?
 
MMC said:
Well now, Pope Francis joins Pope John II in saying Animals have a Soul. Pope Benedict said animals didn't have a soul. This Pope just stirred up some controversy for the Catholics. As well as other Christians that don't believe animals have a soul.



According to Pope Francis, all dogs go to heaven. During one of his recent public appearances, he was seen consoling a boy whose dog has just died. In his own words, he told the young lad:

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“One day, we will see our animals again in the eternity of Christ. Paradise is open to all of God’s creatures.”

Several theologians, though, have commented on the matter and believe the pope was just doing what he can to soothe a grieving child. The remark also created controversy among traditionalists who saw the statement as a slap in the face of longstanding Catholic views, which states that animals are soulless and therefore cannot enter the pearly gates......snip~

https://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/advisor/pope-francis-doggie-heaven-real-002807808.html


What do you think? Do Animals have Souls?
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Are you saying at least one pope is barking up the wrong tree?
 
Paleocon said:
Do you not know the diff emcee between a particular and a universal?
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I think I showed you either way. Not only can they count, and associate words but they do use reasoning. With the Abstract and with Particulars.
 
People who get their panties in a twist over something as trivial as whether there is a doggy heaven amuse me.
 
MMC said:
I think I showed you either way. Not only can they count, and associate words but they do use reasoning. With the Abstract and with Particulars.
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Well you didn't so you should correct your thinking.
 
tacomancer said:
People who get their panties in a twist over something as trivial as whether there is a doggy heaven amuse me.
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Well, I think this Pope was looking to use some Snuggles with wrinkle guard. Just sayin.
 
tacomancer said:
People who get their panties in a twist over something as trivial as whether there is a doggy heaven amuse me.
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People who show such disdain for intelligence amuse me.
 
Paleocon said:
Well you didn't so you should correct your thinking.
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Well lets see....there are scientists and psychologists with research and validation. Then we have you that says.....the opposite.

th
 
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