Is Mormonism a variant of Christianity, or a whole different religion?

Personally, I don't know if I would classify Mormon's as Christian or not. I know they identify themselves as Christian, but there is enough differences I certainly can sympathize with those people who do not consider them Christian at all.

disneydude said:

It talks of owning planets after death (Absolutely Mormon Doctrine. The Mormon church teaches that "eternal life" is the ability to father/mother spiritual beings and populate other planets

Jesus and God are separate entities (literally father and son) - Again....absolutely Mormon doctrine.

That Joseph Smith is equal to Jesus as a celestial being. - Once again....this is central to Mormon beliefs and teachings. The idea that you can become a God just like God the father and his son Jesus Christ is central to Mormon doctrine.

I don't have any "Hatred" or animosity to the Mormon church and I would consider them "Christian" is the same sense as any other "Christian" religion. They are no better and/or no worse than any other large organized religious group.

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I was a little harsh and may have mis-characterized you, I apologize for that. Re-reading the OP it is not as bad as I thought it was. I read it earlier this morning and for some reason I thought it was worse than it was. Yes the LDS believe Jesus and Heavenly Father are actual son and father, and separate beings like any two men are. The oneness is seen as oneness of purpose. If not Jesus would be praying to himself, which is weird, but we Mormons are the weird ones according to many of the Bible thumping preachers. As far as the possibility of populating other planets, it has not been revealed whether or not that will happen so it is not official LDS doctrine. It is assumed if we are to become like our divine parents and have infinite eternal offspring throughout the eternities, then that will likely be the case. The LDS and New Testament teaching of the divine potential of man is explained very well in the following link:Mormon Answers (LDS FAQ): The Divine Potential of Human Beings - or Do Mormons Believe They Can Become Gods?

ludin said:

your wasting your time. any time these things are brought up straight from Mormon sources they are just considered anti-Mormon by her more so.
she will not address anything you say either.

I tried to get her to address things on multiple occasions and she refused and posted the same response. "that just anti-Mormon" I don't see how it can be anti-Mormon when it comes straight from Mormon doctrine.

same goes for the JW they just do circular arguments and never address things either.

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I get it...and I've seen it from many Mormons over the years. They either don't know their own teachings or they are uncomforable with them.

I also understand that there is a LOT of anti-Mormonism sentiment out there, especially from evangelicals. I used to see it all the time when I lived in Salt Lake City. I would often see wacko Evangelicals protesting outside Temple Square, especially during mormon conference time proclaiming all kinds of anti-mormon propoganda. There is a lot out there is is flat out incorrect. But nothing stated in the OP, perhaps aside from trying to related Mormonism to Muslims, was inaccurate.

ludin said:

your wasting your time. any time these things are brought up straight from Mormon sources they are just considered anti-Mormon by her more so.
she will not address anything you say either.

I tried to get her to address things on multiple occasions and she refused and posted the same response. "that just anti-Mormon" I don't see how it can be anti-Mormon when it comes straight from Mormon doctrine.

same goes for the JW they just do circular arguments and never address things either.

there are significant differences between what Mormons are taught based on their own theology and Christians.

the fact that they do not consider Christ a diving being and is instead a physical coupling of God and mary is probably one of the most drastic.
the other really drastic one is that God was a simple man that live such a good life he just became God. both of which is unbiblical.

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Stop lying.

laska said:

I was a little harsh and may have mis-characterized you, I apologize for that. Re-reading the OP it is not as bad as I thought it was. I read it earlier this morning and for some reason I thought it was worse than it was. Yes the LDS believe Jesus and Heavenly Father are actual son and father, and separate beings like any two men are. The oneness is seen as oneness of purpose. If not Jesus would be praying to himself, which is weird, but we Mormons are the weird ones according to many of the Bible thumping preachers. As far as the possibility of populating other planets, it has not been revealed whether or not that will happen so it is not official LDS doctrine. It is assumed if we are to become like our divine parents and have infinite eternal offspring throughout the eternities, then that will likely be the case. The LDS and New Testament teaching of the divine potential of man is explained very well in the following link:Mormon Answers (LDS FAQ): The Divine Potential of Human Beings - or Do Mormons Believe They Can Become Gods?

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The idea of eternal life and producing spirit children and populating other planets is a large part of the temple ceremony ...so I don't know how you can say it isn't official church doctrine.

laska said:

Stop lying.

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not lying. the last time this came up you continued your circular reasoning. It has already started in this thread. the things that were posted were NOT ANTI-MORMON.
they come straight from Mormon doctrine and beliefs.

I am sorry that you can't come to grips with that, but that is not our problem it is yours.

disneydude said:

I get it...and I've seen it from many Mormons over the years. They either don't know their own teachings or they are uncomforable with them.

I also understand that there is a LOT of anti-Mormonism sentiment out there, especially from evangelicals. I used to see it all the time when I lived in Salt Lake City. I would often see wacko Evangelicals protesting outside Temple Square, especially during mormon conference time proclaiming all kinds of anti-mormon propoganda. There is a lot out there is is flat out incorrect. But nothing stated in the OP, perhaps aside from trying to related Mormonism to Muslims, was inaccurate.

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There are plenty of Mormons that know their teachings very well and in no way uncomfortable talking about them. I am one of them. It is much, much rarer for a non LDS to have the same knowledge. There is an entire cottage industry of anti-Mormons who make a living distorting, sensationalizing, giving half truths, and outright lies about the religion. Ludin gets his material from them.

ludin said:

not lying. the last time this came up you continued your circular reasoning. It has already started in this thread. the things that were posted were NOT ANTI-MORMON.
they come straight from Mormon doctrine and beliefs.

I am sorry that you can't come to grips with that, but that is not our problem it is yours.

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All intelligent posters who have dealt with you know what you are. At the judgement bar of God you will have to account how you dishonestly have slandered The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

OP wants to know what is Mormonism, it is this:

Mormonism, ie The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the restoration of Christ's true and authorized church in the New Testament and the latter day kingdom of God that the Old Testament prophet Daniel saw that God would set up in the latter days. Isaiah prophesied of the LDS restoration also:
2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord’s house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths...

Isaiah 18:

3 All ye inhabitants of the world, and dwellers on the earth, see ye, when he lifteth up an ensign on the mountains; and when he bloweth a trumpet, hear ye.


The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints is headquartered in Salt Lake City, literally sits on top of the mountains, where there is a temple to the Lord that has a gold plaque that states "The House of the Lord", atop of the temple there is the angel Moroni blowing a trumpet, and visitors from all over the world visit it each year to learn about the gospel.

Another strong evidence that the LDS is not just another religion is the exodus motif. God set up His kingdom on earth in ancient times with the nation of Israel. Their history as a nation opens with a mighty prophet Moses leading Israel from destruction during Passover on a journey through the wilderness to a promise land, where they settle next to the second largest inland lake of salt in the world(the Lord's covenant people are called the salt of the earth in the scriptures), and build a great temple to the Lord. In modern times when God set up His kingdom again on the earth, the latter day saints are led by a prophet during Passover on an exodus to escape destruction with a journey across the American wilderness to a promise land, where they settled next to the largest inland lake of salt in the world, and built a great temple to the Lord.

disneydude said:

I get it...and I've seen it from many Mormons over the years. They either don't know their own teachings or they are uncomforable with them.

I also understand that there is a LOT of anti-Mormonism sentiment out there, especially from evangelicals. I used to see it all the time when I lived in Salt Lake City. I would often see wacko Evangelicals protesting outside Temple Square, especially during mormon conference time proclaiming all kinds of anti-mormon propoganda. There is a lot out there is is flat out incorrect. But nothing stated in the OP, perhaps aside from trying to related Mormonism to Muslims, was inaccurate.

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not so much anti-Mormon sentiment as it is not biblical. some of these things as listed in the OP are simple not found in the bible. the only place that you can find them is in Mormon doctrine.

some of their beliefs and theology is only found in their stuff. no other branch of Christianity has it.

while all divisions of Christianity have different interpretations their core beliefs remain the same.

not so with Mormons the core beliefs have changed into something totally different.

disneydude said:

The idea of eternal life and producing spirit children and populating other planets is a large part of the temple ceremony ...so I don't know how you can say it isn't official church doctrine.

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I doubt that you've ever attended any Temple ceremony, or that you have any clue what it entails.

Those of us who have are not at liberty to discuss the content of such in any detail, but I don't think I am crossing any lines that I shouldn't when I say that no, there is nothing in any of our Temple ceremonies that makes any reference to “producing spirit children and populating other planets”. At this point, you are flat-out lying.

I suspect that you are lying about ever having been a Mormon. You are certainly lying in your claims about what you were allegedly taught in the church. There is not any way that one can have been an active member of the church for twenty years, and come away thinking that the statements that you have made are an honest account of what the church teaches.

laska said:

There are plenty of Mormons that know their teachings very well and in no way uncomfortable talking about them. I am one of them. It is much, much rarer for a non LDS to have the same knowledge. There is an entire cottage industry of anti-Mormons who make a living distorting, sensationalizing, giving half truths, and outright lies about the religion. Ludin gets his material from them.

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I don't disagree that there is a LOT of really crazy wacko anti-mormon literature out there. I can't comment on Ludin as I havent enough knowledge to know what he bases his posts on.
Look....I respect the Mormon religion as much as I respect ANY religion. I think there are good and bad parts to all. I was raised Mormon....for me the turning point was going through the temple ceremony which was supposed to be all sacred, but for me, it turned me completely off and changed the course of my life. I found the whole ceremony very off-putting and reluctantly participated because I felt I had to, but I was freaked out seeing my parents and other people I know participating in what I considered to be very weird and "brainwashing" rituals. I don't mean to speak disrespectful to your beliefs...I'm just relaying my experiences. The more I questioned my faith the more I realized how bizarre some of the things that I had been raised to believe were.
That being said....I think the Mormon church does a lot of really good things...and although there are strange things about it....what religion out there DOESN'T have strange rituals as part of their beliefs and practices?

Bob Blaylock said:

I doubt that you've ever attended any Temple ceremony, or that you have any clue what it entails.

Those of us who have are not at liberty to discuss the content of such in any detail, but I don't think I am crossing any lines that I shouldn't when I say that no, there is nothing in any of our Temple ceremonies that makes any reference to “producing spirit children and populating other planets”. At this point, you are flat-out lying.

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You would be wrong.

laska said:

All intelligent posters who have dealt with you know what you are. At the judgement bar of God you will have to account how you dishonestly have slandered The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

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nope not at all. calling out unbiblical doctrine is what followers of Christ are suppose to do.
saying that Mormon doctorine is not biblical is not slander it is truth.

PS the only posters you are referring to are die hard Mormons can't handle when people point out valid issues between Mormonism and the bible.

ludin said:

not so much anti-Mormon sentiment as it is not biblical. some of these things as listed in the OP are simple not found in the bible. the only place that you can find them is in Mormon doctrine.

some of their beliefs and theology is only found in their stuff. no other branch of Christianity has it.

while all divisions of Christianity have different interpretations their core beliefs remain the same.

not so with Mormons the core beliefs have changed into something totally different.

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I would disagree. The basic core of Mormon beliefs is the same as pretty much every other "Christian" group out there. There are differences in Mormon theology with other Christian churches

but its more commonality than different.

disneydude said:

I don't disagree that there is a LOT of really crazy wacko anti-mormon literature out there. I can't comment on Ludin as I havent enough knowledge to know what he bases his posts on.
Look....I respect the Mormon religion as much as I respect ANY religion. I think there are good and bad parts to all. I was raised Mormon....for me the turning point was going through the temple ceremony which was supposed to be all sacred, but for me, it turned me completely off and changed the course of my life. I found the whole ceremony very off-putting and reluctantly participated because I felt I had to, but I was freaked out seeing my parents and other people I know participating in what I considered to be very weird and "brainwashing" rituals. I don't mean to speak disrespectful to your beliefs...I'm just relaying my experiences. The more I questioned my faith the more I realized how bizarre some of the things that I had been raised to believe were.
That being said....I think the Mormon church does a lot of really good things...and although there are strange things about it....what religion out there DOESN'T have strange rituals as part of their beliefs and practices?

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she doesn't like the fact that I point out not only historical issues but theological inconsistencies between the Mormon theology and the bible.

disneydude said:

You would be wrong.

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You're lying.

There is not any way that one could have gone through the Temple ceremonies, and come away believing that they contain what you claim they contain.

There is not any way that one could have been an active member of the church for as long as you claim to have been, and come away believing that what you have claimed is an accurate or honest account of what the church teaches or practices.

You're probably lying about having ever been a member. You are certainly, undeniably lying about what, if you were a member, you were taught as such.

Mormon.org | What is the Mormon Church and Religion?

go here. They have no issue talking about themselves.

Amadeus said:

My understanding is that although Mormonism incorporates some aspects of Christianity, it is more like Islam in that it forks in a completely different direction and is therefore not really a Judeo-Christian religion (though still Abrahamic). It talks of owning planets after death; that Jesus and God are separate entities (literally father and son), and that Joseph Smith is equal to Jesus as a celestial being. I have not studied Mormonism to any great extent... yes, I have mostly just watch that funky cartoon.

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Actually, there is no Mormanism: it's The Latter Day Saints. Morman was a guy who wrote in the book of Morman... Joseph Smith was an expelled Free Mason and he lifted ritual from the degrees wholesale and divided up the material: secret hand shakes, wearing of aprons etc etc. They cross their arms in prayer in the fashion of the 18th century Scottish Rite; a concordant body of Free Masonry from the French Rite of Perfection.

Judeo-Christians they are not. And what guy with money wouldn't want multiple wives? The use of Jesus as a central figure plays into his popularity among white Europeans. Smith was eventually Lynched (shot) by a mob.

In fairness to the Latter Day Saints, they have created a community of security and love for themselves and their posterity. They are wonderful people who practice no ill will and will give you the shirt of their backs.

disneydude said:

I would disagree. The basic core of Mormon beliefs is the same as pretty much every other "Christian" group out there. There are differences in Mormon theology with other Christian churches

but its more commonality than different.

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Ok.

Christians believe that Christ is part of the trinity and the Son of God. that he has always existed and was born of a virgin through the Holy Spirit.
Mormons believe that Christ is the physical Son of God and or a created being. That God had physical relations with Mary (she wouldn't have been a virgin at that point and would have committed adultery since she was betrothed to Joseph at the time. none of which has any biblical basis.

They also believe satan is his brother. none of which is biblical. Satan was an Angel and while he was considered one of the greatest of angels he was in no ways related to Christ.

so there is a huge fundamental difference between who Mormons think Christ is and what Christians think.

Bob Blaylock said:

I doubt that you've ever attended any Temple ceremony, or that you have any clue what it entails.

Those of us who have are not at liberty to discuss the content of such in any detail, but I don't think I am crossing any lines that I shouldn't when I say that no, there is nothing in any of our Temple ceremonies that makes any reference to “producing spirit children and populating other planets”. At this point, you are flat-out lying.

I suspect that you are lying about ever having been a Mormon. You are certainly lying in your claims about what you were allegedly taught in the church. There is not any way that one can have been an active member of the church for twenty years, and come away thinking that the statements that you have made are an honest account of what the church teaches.

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There is no way that you being a non church member attended Temple. You call people liars and refer to yourself as "a Morman".

ludin said:

Mormons believe that…God had physical relations with Mary (she wouldn't have been a virgin at that point and would have committed adultery since she was betrothed to Joseph at the time. none of which has any biblical basis.

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No, that is not what we believe.

Bob Blaylock said:

You're lying.

There is not any way that one could have gone through the Temple ceremonies, and come away believing that they contain what you claim they contain.

There is not any way that one could have been an active member of the church for as long as you claim to have been, and come away believing that what you have claimed is an accurate or honest account of what the church teaches or practices.

You're probably lying about having ever been a member. You are certainly, undeniably lying about what, if you were a member, you were taught as such.

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LOL....tell that to the Mormon missionaries who still come to my door every 6 months or so looking for me. I'm actually always quite nice to them and say look.....I have no animosity to them, I understand that they are being directed to me by the Bishopric or Stake Presidency because I am still on the rolls...but been there....done it and I just don't have an interest.

I remember it quite clearly being part of the film in the Jordan River Temple which is where I went. Maybe my recollection is wrong, but I remember the whole purpose of life and going through the "why we are here". I may be melding it with numerous discussions I had with my parents over the next two decades...it literally has been over 2 decades....

ludin said:

Ok.

Christians believe that Christ is part of the trinity and the Son of God. that he has always existed and was born of a virgin through the Holy Spirit.
Mormons believe that Christ is the physical Son of God and or a created being. That God had physical relations with Mary (she wouldn't have been a virgin at that point and would have committed adultery since she was betrothed to Joseph at the time. none of which has any biblical basis.

They also believe satan is his brother. none of which is biblical. Satan was an Angel and while he was considered one of the greatest of angels he was in no ways related to Christ.

so there is a huge fundamental difference between who Mormons think Christ is and what Christians think.

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I agree that the Trinity belief is different in most Christian churches with Mormonism....but they all believe in God, the father, Jesus Christ and in the Holy Spirit.
At no time, when I was a member, did the Mormon Church teach that God had physical relations with Mary. The belief in the immaculate conception is about the same in Mormonism as other Christian teaching.
Jesus and Satan as brothers? Only in the sense that the Mormon church and I think most Christianity teaches that we are all sons/daughters of god...so in that sense, they would be brothers.

I don't think the fundamental differences are as great as you seem to think. Sure there are difference, but there are differences among ALL Christian groups.

Bob Blaylock said:

No, that is not what we believe.

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:doh

if you would like I can point right to the Mormon documents directly.

Jesus, our elder brother, was begotten in the flesh by the same
character that was in the garden of Eden, and who is our Father in Heaven."
(JoD 1:50-51, also "Answers", vol. 5, p. 121

"The birth of our Savior was as natural as are the births of our children; it
was the result of NATURAL ACTION. He partook of FLESH AND BLOOD--was begotten
of his father, as we were of our fathers." (JoD, vol. 8, p. 115).

THIS IS
NONSENSE. Why will they not believe the Father when He says that Jesus Christ
is His Only Begotten Son? Why will they try to EXPLAIN THIS TRUTH AWAY and
make mystery of it?" (as quoted from Joseph F. Smith, 'Box Elder Times,' Sep.
22, 1914).

so please tell me how wrong I am.