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Scriptures that justify homosexual lifestyle vs Scriptures that condemn it

vasuderatorrent

vasuderatorrent

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Warning: This thread is not for people that think the Bible is a metaphor.

Warning: This thread is not for people who hate the Bible.

Warning: This thread is not for people who think the Bible is not the word of God.

Warning: This thread is not for people who think the Bible is a joke.

This is a perfect place to have a theological debate about whether living a homosexual lifestyle is a reasonable thing for a Christian to do or whether living a homosexual lifestyle is an unreasonable thing to do.

Both sides of the argument agree that sin can be forgiven. Both sides of the argument agree that every single person is a sinner. Both sides of the argument agree that if someone commits sodomy then that person can be forgiven and openly accepted as a member of a church congregation. That is not the issue that we are debating.

This is a place to quote your scriptures that say that a person can repeatedly commit the same sin and vow to continue to commit that sin thus maintain their status a Christian.

This is a place to quote your scriptures that say that a person can't repeatedly sin and vow to continue sinning will reap a life of destruction.

Which side of the argument are you on? State your argument and then post a scripture. I will be keeping score. Old Testament references get 1 point. New Testament scriptures get 4 points. There is no cheating. You can post a New Testament scripture that has nothing to do with your argument and still get 4 points.

Let's get ready to defend our various theological positions on homosexuality with scripture. Which side will get the most amount of points?
 
Here is a scripture that teaches us that people who proudly proclaim their homosexual lifestyle and those who encourage others to proclaim their homosexual lifestyle deserve to die. That's strong language from the scripture. I think it means that being an open homosexual is frowned upon.

Romans 1:26-32 HCSB This is why God delivered them over to degrading passions. For even their females exchanged natural sexual intercourse for what is unnatural. The males in the same way also left natural sexual intercourse with females and were inflamed in their lust for one another. Males committed shameless acts with males and received in their own persons the appropriate penalty for their perversion. And because they did not think it worthwhile to have God in their knowledge, God delivered them over to a worthless mind to do what is morally wrong. They are filled with all unrighteousness, evil, greed, and wickedness. They are full of envy, murder, disputes, deceit, and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, arrogant, proud, boastful, inventors of evil, disbedient to parents, undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, and unmerciful. Although they know full well God's just sentence - that those who practice such things deserve to die - they not only do them, but even applaud others who practice them.
 
So far the score is 4 for those who think the Bible is against living a homosexual lifestyle and 0 for those who think the Bible is in support of a homosexual lifestyle.
 
ptif219 said:
I will start here

What Does the Bible Say About Homosexuality?
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ptif219 said:
You mean you want me to do 50 posts?
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Nah.

We'll save this arsenal of verses for our side. Once the people who think the scripture justifies a homosexual lifestyle gets around 120-140 points we can start typing in the scriptures from that link. We'll let them get a few points first. This thread needs to be as interesting as possible. We need to see some scriptures from the other side first or this thread will be one-sided and boring as mess.
 
vasuderatorrent said:
Nah.

We'll save this arsenal of verses for our side. Once the people who think the scripture justifies a homosexual lifestyle gets around 120-140 points we can start typing in the scriptures from that link. We'll let them get a few points first. This thread needs to be as interesting as possible. We need to see some scriptures from the other side first or this thread will be one-sided and boring as mess.
Click to expand...

How will they get points? They would have to pervert Scripture and take it completely out of context
 
ptif219 said:
How will they get points? They would have to pervert Scripture and take it completely out of context
Click to expand...

I don't know but I am teachable. I desperately want to see their arguments. I'll help their side a little bit but they will have to open their Bible and find the verse. Even though we aren't throwing stones I'll still give them points.

Hint to the opposition: He who is without sin cast the first stone. You'll have to find the verse yourself.
 
ptif219 said:
How will they get points?
Click to expand...

I have invited a few friends to help us understand the other side of the argument. They will give us the scriptures to support their argument.

Dear Zyphlin, Dragonfly, iguana man, Clax1911, phattonez, Captain America, Chromium and Crabcake,

You are invited to a very important thread to debate the issue of open homosexuality using scriptures from the Bible. We desperately need your help to make this thread interesting. It would be boring if this debate was one-sided and only one side of the argument used scripture. Please help us make this a wonderful and exciting thread. Break out the Bible and start whooping some butt. King James, New International, Holman Christian Standard, The Message, English Standard Version. It doesn't matter. Just open that Bible and have some fun presenting your side of the argument. Let's go!

vasuderatorrent

Zyphlin said:
Since apparently you're putting it forward as an assertion that my point is wrong, perhaps you can point me to the specific time in your near 60 minute video where preach in question indicates that those who drink alcohol are not christian?

You know, since I wasn't suggesting that I've not run into christians who haven't suggested there are other sinful things other than homosexuality. Rather, my suggestion was I haven't ran into another person who has claimed that anyone not completely abstaining from one particular sin, OTHER than homosexuality, is simply NOT christian because of that one fact.
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Dragonfly said:
Interesting point. I'll have to reconsider what I said.

Although I'm sure there's a fairly defined line between preaching about what's sinful and immoral in the eyes of "god", and inciting violence.
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iguanaman said:
Right and the Iman's in our mosques should be allowed to preach jihad too. There is nothing wrong with stirring up hate.
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CLAX1911 said:
As I predicted, the subpoenas where withdrawn. The mayor had hired four of the top firms to come it out. The preachers were represented by one lawyer. The first amendment to the constitution guarantees the right to free speech and free expression. Also it forbids the government from becoming involved in church practices.

This was all fall out over something coined " the bathroom bill" where mayor Annise Parker made it a city wide ordinance that either sex could use either bathroom in public, should they identify as transgender. Obviously there were plenty of people not happy with that, and they started a petition. And our city code states that if you get 17,000 signatures on a petition the city can than vote on the bill. There was a petition turned in that had 55,000 signatures on it.

In a rather odd move the petition vanished, obviously corrupt politics. Mayor Parker is in her last term and she wants to be a nationally known lgbt rights activist. This petition threatened her. Clearly the office of the mayor threw the petition out. Several pastors were not pleased so they rallied their parishioners to write letters to the mayor.

Today mayor Parker withdrew her subpoenas.

It would have never been legitimate, even if it had gone to the supreme court. Governments cannot interfere with religion, period.

I was never worried, when I heard about it, I scoffed. But that doesn't stop the talibornagain from throwing a temper tantrum.
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phattonez said:
And I fully agree with this. What we disagree on is whether it is even appropriate to call out sin in others. I say yes, yet you say no. I'll make my case by means of an analogy. If I see that someone is blindly running and that he is about to fall into a pit, should I let him know that he is about to do so, or should I let him fall into the pit?


Perhaps this is the difference. For these sins there often are effects on other people. With drug use we can have the person be a danger to other. With fornication we can have the person be a danger to the child that they may create.



Again, it seems as though this difference stems from the idea that these sins don't affect others. Adultery can very easily produce other children, and will easily affect the spouse of this person.
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Captain America said:
I agree that the bible does not advocate or tell us to accept homosexuality. It is "condemned," as you say, but a multitude of other sins seem to trump this particular "sin," would you not agree?

If the church(s,) were to cast out non-repentitive gays, deny them equal sacraments, and implement whatever other sanctions they deem appropriate, what are they to do with the thieves? Should they deny them marriage? Baptism? What about the adulterer's? The liar's? The violator's of the "Big Ten?" Should they show these sinners of higher multitude and severity, the same disrespect, disapproval and outright hatred as they display towards gays?

I think when Jesus said, "He who is with out sin," he might have been talking to all these people who, for some unknown reason, seem to think are on some kind of higher moral ground.

If every sinner was treated like the gay sinners, as they should be, (if fair is fair,) the churches would be empty.
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Captain America said:
Houston religious preachers have just as much right to preach homophobic hatred from their pulpits as the Islamaniacs do preaching jihad and terror.

Don't make it the right thing to do but it is their right.
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chromium said:
That isn't how sin works. It's not proclaiming the sin that matters, so much as the act and lack of repentance. Did it even occur to you why else a thief might not proclaim his sin, like to avoid secular punishment? How about a murderer who keeps his actions private, is he to be welcomed openly?

You're also seriously mistaking the gay rights movement as "hate for God." Just as many conflate atheism with satanism, here you're doing the same with homosexuality/thievery. Hating God strikes me as very specific and i doubt you've bothered to ask anyone their motives beyond securing equal rights in the secular world.

There certainly is a pro premarital sex movement, actually it's fully complete. That's because there's no *anti* premarital sex movement to speak of. Almost no one waits until marriage and that's what i mean by so many of the religious selectively applying their vitriol.

Likewise, "sabbath workers movement," uh you have heard of the nfl? Factory work? Any 24/7 business? Again, no movement exists because they've been accepted, just as homosexuality is becoming.
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CrabCake said:
I have no interest in playing scripture tag. I could fling scriptures around all day long too. But ultimately, does that really help anyone? Scripture is not offensive, in fact the message it brings is referred to by the apostles as "the good news". Calling people who disagree with your exegesis monsters is offensive.
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vasuderatorrent said:
Here is a scripture that teaches us that people who proudly proclaim their homosexual lifestyle and those who encourage others to proclaim their homosexual lifestyle deserve to die. That's strong language from the scripture. I think it means that being an open homosexual is frowned upon.

Romans 1:26-32 HCSB This is why God delivered them over to degrading passions. For even their females exchanged natural sexual intercourse for what is unnatural. The males in the same way also left natural sexual intercourse with females and were inflamed in their lust for one another. Males committed shameless acts with males and received in their own persons the appropriate penalty for their perversion. And because they did not think it worthwhile to have God in their knowledge, God delivered them over to a worthless mind to do what is morally wrong. They are filled with all unrighteousness, evil, greed, and wickedness. They are full of envy, murder, disputes, deceit, and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, arrogant, proud, boastful, inventors of evil, disbedient to parents, undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, and unmerciful. Although they know full well God's just sentence - that those who practice such things deserve to die - they not only do them, but even applaud others who practice them.
Click to expand...

Just pointing out that Roman's 1:26-27 was the punishment, not the sin. Now, since it a punishment, it obviously is not a good thing, but , at least according to the letter of Paul to the Roman's,that punishment was met out for certain pagan practices that Paul was trying to discourage the group in Rome from practicing.
 
Alas, there just simply isn't any scripture that says homosexuality is forbidden. There are modern English translations that reference homosexuality, but upon studying a little deeper, it's clear that the bible wasn't talking about homosexuality.
 
RAMOSS said:
Just pointing out that Roman's 1:26-27 was the punishment, not the sin. Now, since it a punishment, it obviously is not a good thing, but , at least according to the letter of Paul to the Roman's,that punishment was met out for certain pagan practices that Paul was trying to discourage the group in Rome from practicing.
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You need more than those 2 scriptures to understand it

Romans 1:13-32New King James Version (NKJV)

13 Now I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that I often planned to come to you (but was hindered until now), that I might have some fruit among you also, just as among the other Gentiles. 14 I am a debtor both to Greeks and to barbarians, both to wise and to unwise. 15 So, as much as is in me, I am ready to preach the gospel to you who are in Rome also.
The Just Live by Faith

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ,[a] for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”
God’s Wrath on Unrighteousness

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.

24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality,[c] wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving,[d] unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.
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CLAX1911 said:
Alas, there just simply isn't any scripture that says homosexuality is forbidden. There are modern English translations that reference homosexuality, but upon studying a little deeper, it's clear that the bible wasn't talking about homosexuality.
Click to expand...

Then you are not looking at it in context. You are trying to justify your sin. It is clear under the law in Leviticus the punishment was death
 
vasuderatorrent said:
I have invited a few friends to help us understand the other side of the argument. They will give us the scriptures to support their argument.

Dear Zyphlin, Dragonfly, iguana man, Clax1911, phattonez, Captain America, Chromium and Crabcake,

You are invited to a very important thread to debate the issue of open homosexuality using scriptures from the Bible. We desperately need your help to make this thread interesting. It would be boring if this debate was one-sided and only one side of the argument used scripture. Please help us make this a wonderful and exciting thread. Break out the Bible and start whooping some butt. King James, New International, Holman Christian Standard, The Message, English Standard Version. It doesn't matter. Just open that Bible and have some fun presenting your side of the argument. Let's go!

vasuderatorrent
Click to expand...
The bible never says that two men cannot love each other, it never says that they cannot kiss each other it never says they cannot make love with each other. It says basically says don't go around ****ing. That is the same commandment it gives to heterosexuals.
 
CLAX1911 said:
Alas, there just simply isn't any scripture that says homosexuality is forbidden. There are modern English translations that reference homosexuality, but upon studying a little deeper, it's clear that the bible wasn't talking about homosexuality.
Click to expand...

Reminder: You must use the Bible to get points in this thread.
 
ptif219 said:
Then you are not looking at it in context. You are trying to justify your sin. It is clear under the law in Leviticus the punishment was death
Click to expand...

Reminder: You must use the Bible to get points.
 
CLAX1911 said:
The bible never says that two men cannot love each other, it never says that they cannot kiss each other it never says they cannot make love with each other. It says basically says don't go around ****ing. That is the same commandment it gives to heterosexuals.
Click to expand...

CLAX1911 said:
I bore of your hatred.
Click to expand...

Reminder: You must use the Bible to get points in this thread. So far you haven't scored any points for your side.

The score is 8 for those who think the Bible condemns open homosexuality and 0 for those who think the Bible justifies open homosexuality. Make sure you follow the format of this thread. We are looking for arguments followed by scripture reference.

4 points for New Testament references and 1 point for Old Testament references.
 
Note to all participants. Do not read any of the post in this thread unless it is followed by a scripture reference.

Note to participants who have no intention of using scripture reference. You probably won't have any fun here.

Hint to both sides: John 11:35 is a short verse.

John 3:16 KJV For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son that whosever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
 
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