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Vatican proposes 'stunning' shift on gays, lesbians

MaggieD said:
It's a bigger shock to me that the church is thinking about finding a way for divorced/re-married Catholics to take communion.
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Never going to happen.
 
MaggieD said:
They already make ample exceptions. Just a matter of time, I think.
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No. The only way is if the first marriage was nullified, as in it never happened. For those who are perpetually living in an adulterous union, they will never be allowed to physically receive Communion.
 
Dragonfly said:
Vatican proposes 'stunning' shift on gays, lesbians – CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs

Hell....it might be freezing over.
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Nice and all, but it's IMO the root of this change is money and pandering to the flock. The church is pissing off enough parishioners with their stance on homosexuality that they are losing members and donations. It's one of the only reasons why IMO they haven't enforced their stance on birth control on their married parishioners cause there would be very, very few left in "good" standing.

This was also in the article you posted:

article said:
Contraception

The synod discussions re-iterated the church’s “appropriate teaching regarding natural methods” of birth control.

Citing economic factors which sometimes contribute to the decision not to have children, the synod nonetheless states that “being open to life is an intrinsic requirement of married love.”
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MaggieD said:
It's a bigger shock to me that the church is thinking about finding a way for divorced/re-married Catholics to take communion.

Guess the Catholic Church is finally seeing a significant drop in revenue. Follow.The.Money.
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Exactly my thoughts.
 
MaggieD said:
It's a bigger shock to me that the church is thinking about finding a way for divorced/re-married Catholics to take communion.

Guess the Catholic Church is finally seeing a significant drop in revenue. Follow.The.Money.
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Yeah, they figured it was time to modernize the church and bring it into the 16th century...

Divorcees will be able to 'mack on Jesus' during mass.

(alluding to the once hilarious Phil Hendrie's funniest radio bit, PM me if you want the link)
 
Arcana XV said:
Nah. Hell is still hot as...well, Hell. This is just the Church finally realizing they had to adapt their message to fit the enormous social and moral shifts of the last 50 years. They were losing members in droves, especially in wealthy Western countries and Pope Francis is very slowly winning them back.
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Lol. By any indication it was the toning down and tempering of the message that caused people to leave the Church. The declines started in the 60s. Interestingly enough, it is only in conservative parishes and dioceses where we are seeing growth, not the liberal ones that tend to ignore the tougher teachings of the faith or openly flaunt them.
 
Vatican: Gays and divorcees have gifts to offer the Catholic church - CSMonitor.com

VATICAN CITY — Catholic bishops are showing unprecedented openness to accepting the real lives of many Catholics today, saying gays have gifts to offer the church and should be accepted and that there are "positive" aspects to a couple living together without being married.
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The bishops repeated that gay marriage was off the table. But it acknowledged that gay partnerships had merit.
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:mrgreen:
 
Cardinal Burke is not happy about the way news is being released about the synod.

Cardinal Burke said:
I don’t know how the briefing was conceived but it seems to me that something isn’t working well if the information is being manipulated in a way so as to underscore only one proposal instead of reporting faithfully the various positions that have been brought up. This bothers me a great deal because a significant number of bishops do not accept the ideas of openings ["aperture"] but few know this. They speak only about the necessity that the Church open itself to petitions from the world brought up in February by Cardinal Kasper.
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Synods are messy. The media quarantine isn't helping. | Fr. Z's BlogFr. Z's Blog
 
ChezC3 said:
Which is the direct opposite direction they should be going...
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I'm not so sure that the fire and brimstone method would be beneficial right now. If you look at the comments in any thread or any news story that discusses matters tied to the church (or religion in general) you will see a glaring lack of understanding (probably willful) of church doctrine and the Catechism. Francis seems to be making a go at exposing the Catechism to the laity in an attempt to improve understanding of what the church really stands for. While I have little hope that the move will prompt broad understanding I think it may prompt a few more people to open their eyes and ears to the Word.
 
Lutherf said:
I'm not so sure that the fire and brimstone method would be beneficial right now. If you look at the comments in any thread or any news story that discusses matters tied to the church (or religion in general) you will see a glaring lack of understanding (probably willful) of church doctrine and the Catechism. Francis seems to be making a go at exposing the Catechism to the laity in an attempt to improve understanding of what the church really stands for. While I have little hope that the move will prompt broad understanding I think it may prompt a few more people to open their eyes and ears to the Word.
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There is very little that I can think of that Pope Francis has made clearer during his pontificate.
 
Lutherf said:
I'm not so sure that the fire and brimstone method would be beneficial right now. If you look at the comments in any thread or any news story that discusses matters tied to the church (or religion in general) you will see a glaring lack of understanding (probably willful) of church doctrine and the Catechism. Francis seems to be making a go at exposing the Catechism to the laity in an attempt to improve understanding of what the church really stands for. While I have little hope that the move will prompt broad understanding I think it may prompt a few more people to open their eyes and ears to the Word.
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Well, yes, catechesis for cradle catholics has been piss poor to say the very least. However the flip side of that coin also has been the Church's steady decline into protestant territory and rationalizing themselves out of the supernatural...
 
ChezC3 said:
Which is the direct opposite direction they should be going...
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That's what is needed more "fire and brimstone". Maybe an inquisition! I'm sure people will be knocking down those church doors. LOL!
 
phattonez said:
No. The only way is if the first marriage was nullified, as in it never happened. For those who are perpetually living in an adulterous union, they will never be allowed to physically receive Communion.
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If a Catholic married a non-Catholic. Nullified. If two Catholics married civilly? Nullified. If a Catholic marries a Catholic in a Catholic church? Then Houston has a problem.
 
Hari Seldon said:
That's what is needed more "fire and brimstone". Maybe an inquisition! I'm sure people will be knocking down those church doors. LOL!
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:fueltofir No better day for an auto-da-fe...:fueltofir
 
Lutherf said:
That's actually quite consistent with Francis's other statements. The idea that Catholics, as a whole, "hate" gays is manufactured outrage.
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I don't know of any Christian church organization who hates gays. They may think of them as misguided or mistaken, and some of them take it as far as to say that they are "living in sin", but hatred just isn't a description that I see at all.
 
MaggieD said:
tldr -- If you can't copy/paste pertinent information, I can't bother to read it. No offense.
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EWTN said:
A valid marriage requires the proper intention at the time that the vows are exchanged. The parties must intend to make a marriage, which by definition is a life-long communion open to new human life. These are called the unitive and procreative meanings of marriage. If either of the two meanings of marriage (an indissoluble union and procreation) are excluded by the will of either the man or the woman no marriage is made on the wedding day (canon 1096).

For example, someone who has no intention of being faithful cannot make a marriage since at the very time of exchanging vows he or she precludes the life-long fidelity that is intrinsic to marriage. This is often demonstrated right at the beginning, or shortly thereafter, by infidelity. Or, someone who intends to exclude the possibility of children does not validly marry. (Those who cannot have children due to age or infertility are NOT meant here, but only those who could bear children but intend to avoid this marital responsibility completely.)
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And here is a pretty good chart that goes over the possible ways a marriage can be annulled.

http://www.ssjohnandpaul.org/docs/Annulments.pdf
 
Hari Seldon said:
Is that where they burn you until you come around to their way of thinking?
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No, that's when as you burn you think to yourself why didn't you come around to their way of thinking...
 
ChezC3 said:
No, that's when as you burn you think to yourself why didn't you come around to their way of thinking...
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You mean like "witches" who were burned no matter what they said by the faithful?
 
Hari Seldon said:
You mean like "witches" who were burned no matter what they said by the faithful?
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Eh, you know, see you go and start showing favoritism and you get a whole bunch of people who feel left out...

I'm not one to cause hurt feelings...
 
ChezC3 said:
No where is sin acceptable. That's silly talk.

Forgiving? Sure, for a contrite spirit...
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Haven't you heard the news?
"Let he who is without sin... cast the first stone." And guess what, no one did...
 
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