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Jesus Is God

AliHajiSheik said:
This belief does not reconcile with the 1st Commandment.
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I assume you refer to Excon's post above. You're right. My point exactly.


Excon's argument that Jesus is not God, does not reconcile with the 1st Commandment.
It also puts Jesus in a very unfavorable light, to say the least.
 
tosca1 said:
I assume you refer to Excon's post above. You're right. My point exactly.


Excon's argument that Jesus is not God, does not reconcile with the 1st Commandment.
It also puts Jesus in a very unfavorable light, to say the least.
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I was responding to the thread, not to any specific poster.
 
AliHajiSheik said:
I was responding to the thread, not to any specific poster.
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Then please clarify about that belief which you stated does not reconcile with the first Commandment.
 
tosca1 said:
Then please clarify about that belief which you stated does not reconcile with the first Commandment.
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No clarification needed: "Thou shalt have no other gods before me" is pretty self explanatory to me.
 
tosca1 said:
DUH indeed. :lol:

You're missing the whole point.
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:naughty No. You have no point to miss.
Matthew 27:46, Mark 15:34 & John 3:16



tosca1 said:
What makes you think God didn't come us Jesus?

Relate my conclusion with John 20 and John 14.


...so he repeats a non-issue.

AND? What about them, I repeat too.


Okay, since you're obviously struggling with the concept, let me re-phrase that:

IF GOD CAN BE A MILLION PEOPLE AT THE SAME TIME HE IS ALSO GOD - and I don't think you deny that thus you replied with an "and?"......

....then that means, HE CAN ALSO BE "THE SON" at the same time that He is the Father.


I hope that's clear an explanation enough for you. I know, it's hard to wrap heads around that if one doesn't have any concept at all as to what a SUPREME GOD is.


You better read the arguments and deal with them. You're totally missing the whole point - you keep bringing up rebuts that don't rebut at all.

I'll be ignoring your silly arguments if you keep ignoring the presented argument. Learn to....


FOCUS.


It takes practice. I'm helping you by having you start practicing here on this thread.
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You are the one who seriously needs to focus.
For some reason, even though you chose to quote it, you also chose to ignore what was said because it covers all of the above nonsense.

Let me repeat it for you.
That does not in any way shape or form mean that Jesus is G_d.
Or do you not understand that?​

Do you, or do you not understand that?

You are on a fools errand, as there is no way you can prove your premiss.
 
tosca1 said:
Jesus is God.

We have discussed about this numerous times in various threads, but I don't know if there is a specific thread devoted to this. I have to bring this issue up again due to my response at another subject (which is not related to this one), because I'm not sure if this evidence had been brought up.

I quoted a Bible verse, and it occurred to me that it is another evidence - without a doubt - that shows Jesus and God are One and the Same.



John 20

Jesus Appears to Thomas

24 Now Thomas (also known as Didymus), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25 So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”

But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”


26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”

28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”


Thomas referred to Jesus as "my Lord and my God!" If Jesus is not God, Jesus would've undoubtedly corrected Him.

The response of Jesus is also interesting. Instead of correcting Thomas, He said: "Because you have seen me, you have believed." His response could also be a double entendre.
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You know, the Apostles had their way of expressing what they knew, I have mine. He's not only God, but so humble he asked to be my best friend. So I care not what those who don't know Him say or think. My chief concern is whether I have done anything to put a smile on his face...and that sometimes means being nice to people who deny him. I'm just not very good at that part yet.
 
tosca1 said:
The crucial point in John 20 is the fact that Jesus did not correct Thomas' reference to Jesus as not only God....but also as, "My God."

Thomas was identifying, worshipping and glorifying Jesus as the One and Only God.
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There are many other verses in the bible that claim the same thing. If you notice that any time someone went to worship an angel the angel stopped them.
Christ never stopped or correct this behavior.

I agree God and Christ are one being yet still have the roles of Father Son and Holy Spirit.
 
serato said:
Not to take any street cred from JC, but creating the Universe was not His work. So Jesus is not God in my opinion.
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John 1:1-3

there are other verses that say the same thing as well.
 
AliHajiSheik said:
No clarification needed: "Thou shalt have no other gods before me" is pretty self explanatory to me.
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that isn't a problem is Jesus is God.
 
AliHajiSheik said:
No clarification needed: "Thou shalt have no other gods before me" is pretty self explanatory to me.
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Thank you. That's the point I was making.
The way Jesus responded to Thomas is a clear acknowledgement that He, (Jesus), is God.

Because....if Jesus is not God....the whole Christendom is in big, big trouble. Jesus would be contradicting His own preaching.

It would mean Jesus is not perfect. It would mean, Jesus is a sham.
 
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tosca1 said:
Thank you. That's the point I was making.
The way Jesus responded to Thomas is a clear acknowledgement that He, (Jesus), is God.

Because....if Jesus is not God....the whole Christendom is in big, big trouble. Jesus would be contradicting His own preaching.

It would mean Jesus is not perfect. It would mean, Jesus is a sham.
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A lot of leaps of assumption on your part. Coincidently, I was talking to a Thomas yesterday and I'm pretty sure that our conversation wasn't documented and even the two of us would struggle to recollect what we said even just a day afterwards. I don't believe that Jesus said he was God, I believe that men have elevated him as such in spite of the 1st Commandment.
 
ludin said:
that isn't a problem is Jesus is God.
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I'm unaware that God ever said he was Jesus. It is generally believed that there was God, and then there was Jesus. There are also those who believe in a "Holy Trinity". Sounds like three entities to me.
 
AliHajiSheik said:
I'm unaware that God ever said he was Jesus. It is generally believed that there was God, and then there was Jesus. There are also those who believe in a "Holy Trinity". Sounds like three entities to me.
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Tri-unity is a better word for it consists as God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. 3 separate beings that function as 1 unite that consists of God.

So Jesus doesn't violate the 1 commandment if He is a part of God since he in essense is God.

this is confirmed in several locations in the bible that Christ is a part of God, or that Him and the Father are One.
 
ludin said:
Tri-unity is a better word for it consists as God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. 3 separate beings that function as 1 unite that consists of God.

So Jesus doesn't violate the 1 commandment if He is a part of God since he in essense is God.

this is confirmed in several locations in the bible that Christ is a part of God, or that Him and the Father are One.
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Sounds suspicious to me. You are putting forth a "better word" but it sounds more like marketing to me. Trinity I've heard of.

First there was God and then a lot later this Jesus fellow comes along and it is said that he is God. Still seems like it is against the 1st Commandment despite all these human interpretations.
 
AliHajiSheik said:
Sounds suspicious to me. You are putting forth a "better word" but it sounds more like marketing to me. Trinity I've heard of.

First there was God and then a lot later this Jesus fellow comes along and it is said that he is God. Still seems like it is against the 1st Commandment despite all these human interpretations.
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nope not at all as because if you read John 1:1-3 it says that Christ existed with God in the begining and through him all things that were made were made.
Christ himself even said that He existed with the father in the begining.

so there is non violation of the 1st commandment if it is 1 God with 3 personalities. of which there is plenty of evidence for.
 
ludin said:
John 1:1-3

there are other verses that say the same thing as well.
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Am I supposed to look that passage up? Your post tells me nothing other than giving me homework.
 
ludin said:
nope not at all as because if you read John 1:1-3 it says that Christ existed with God in the begining and through him all things that were made were made.
Christ himself even said that He existed with the father in the begining.

so there is non violation of the 1st commandment if it is 1 God with 3 personalities. of which there is plenty of evidence for.
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Very hard to read through the pronoun references, but as I understand it, John was a contemporary of Jesus. I don't know when it was but I believe that Moses received the Ten Commandments long before that time. Well all those years and no mention from a source that predates Jesus that God was more than just himself. I can't reconcile that with the 1st Commandment which warns of putting another God before God.
 
AliHajiSheik said:
Very hard to read through the pronoun references, but as I understand it, John was a contemporary of Jesus. I don't know when it was but I believe that Moses received the Ten Commandments long before that time. Well all those years and no mention from a source that predates Jesus that God was more than just himself. I can't reconcile that with the 1st Commandment which warns of putting another God before God.
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I think you missed some things in the Old Testament.

The "Shema" Verse

For most Jewish people, the "Shema" is the foundational verse for the concept of a monotheistic God. It is the very heart of Judaism, and serves to confirm, in the Jewish mind, that there cannot be anything other than one God. The Shema verse is found in Deuteronomy 6:4, and says:

"Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord."

In Hebrew it reads, "Shema Yisrael Adonai Elohenu Adonai Echad." The word Shema is the first Hebrew word in the passage and means "hear." At first glance this seems to support the Jewish (and anti-Trinitarian) concept of a monotheistic God. However, a careful examination of Deuteronomy 6:4 actually establishes, rather than refutes, the plurality of God. In fact, the Shema verse actually presents one of the strongest arguments for the tri-unity of God in the entire Bible. Here's why. The last word of the Shema verse is echad, which is translated into English as the word "one." This is what is known as a compound-unity noun - that is to say, a noun which demonstrates oneness or unity, but at the same time contains two or more entities. A number of scriptural examples will help make the point.

Genesis 2:24, speaking of the union of Adam and Eve, reads: "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become ONE flesh." Here, the Hebrew word that is used for "one" (one flesh) is the same word for "one" that is found in the Shema verse - echad. It clearly speaks of the unity of more than one person into a united, or singular, entity.

In Genesis 1:5, Moses used this same word when he described the first day of creation: "And God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And the evening and the morning were the first day." This "one" day, or "first" day is the Hebrew word echad. The one day referred to was comprised of both light and darkness - evening and morning.

And still another example is found in Jeremiah 32, verses 38-39 which reads, "And they shall be my people, and I will be their God; And I will give THEM ONE HEART." Here, the many people are given "one" (echad) heart. A unity of two or more individuals into oneness

Jesus was prophesied as God long before the 1st century (Isaiah 9:6; Jeremiah 23:5-6; Psalm 45:6).

Jeremiah 23:5-6 - The Messiah Prophesied as God

Jeremiah 23:5-6 - The Messiah as God

And since Jesus is God, there is no conflict with the First Commandment.
 
Logicman said:
I think you missed some things in the Old Testament.

The "Shema" Verse

For most Jewish people, the "Shema" is the foundational verse for the concept of a monotheistic God. It is the very heart of Judaism, and serves to confirm, in the Jewish mind, that there cannot be anything other than one God. The Shema verse is found in Deuteronomy 6:4, and says:

"Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord."

In Hebrew it reads, "Shema Yisrael Adonai Elohenu Adonai Echad." The word Shema is the first Hebrew word in the passage and means "hear." At first glance this seems to support the Jewish (and anti-Trinitarian) concept of a monotheistic God. However, a careful examination of Deuteronomy 6:4 actually establishes, rather than refutes, the plurality of God. In fact, the Shema verse actually presents one of the strongest arguments for the tri-unity of God in the entire Bible. Here's why. The last word of the Shema verse is echad, which is translated into English as the word "one." This is what is known as a compound-unity noun - that is to say, a noun which demonstrates oneness or unity, but at the same time contains two or more entities. A number of scriptural examples will help make the point.

Genesis 2:24, speaking of the union of Adam and Eve, reads: "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become ONE flesh." Here, the Hebrew word that is used for "one" (one flesh) is the same word for "one" that is found in the Shema verse - echad. It clearly speaks of the unity of more than one person into a united, or singular, entity.

In Genesis 1:5, Moses used this same word when he described the first day of creation: "And God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And the evening and the morning were the first day." This "one" day, or "first" day is the Hebrew word echad. The one day referred to was comprised of both light and darkness - evening and morning.

And still another example is found in Jeremiah 32, verses 38-39 which reads, "And they shall be my people, and I will be their God; And I will give THEM ONE HEART." Here, the many people are given "one" (echad) heart. A unity of two or more individuals into oneness

Jesus was prophesied as God long before the 1st century (Isaiah 9:6; Jeremiah 23:5-6; Psalm 45:6).

Jeremiah 23:5-6 - The Messiah Prophesied as God

Jeremiah 23:5-6 - The Messiah as God

And since Jesus is God, there is no conflict with the First Commandment.
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This is helpful but parts are still circular. You do cite some old testament items that are very strong in referencing a "branch" which your link references as Messianic. It is too strong of a leap for me to make the jump that Jesus is God. The only indicate there someone will be coming who may be either a messiah and/or divine. Neither of which prove that Jesus is God and doesn't preclude that he isn't.
 
serato said:
Am I supposed to look that passage up? Your post tells me nothing other than giving me homework.
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educating yourself can be a good thing. that is why we go to school. in this case i am teaching you in a theology course.
so in essence yes that is your homework.

a 5 second google search will give you the answer and i also recommenting the next 3 or 4 verses to get the full sense of what is being said.
 
ludin said:
educating yourself can be a good thing. that is why we go to school. in this case i am teaching you in a theology course.
so in essence yes that is your homework.

a 5 second google search will give you the answer and i also recommenting the next 3 or 4 verses to get the full sense of what is being said.
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If you wish to divest my ego from its soul with superior education, or in your case a quote from the Bible to which you likely had to look up before stepping to me, know this now I was standing amongst a crowed and not allowed much time to google thoughts from a character (you) yet to distinguish himself worthy of issuing after-school assignments.

And since your second reply decided to let the little ego inside you run around the playground without parental supervision, without taking a moment to state the full Biblical text that admittedly I do not have memorized, rather you’d insult my assumed laziness instead, yeah all this makes me wonder why on earth I’d ever consider taking you serious when I’m going to bat this post out of the park with a homerun and say with all seriousness that never in a hot summer day in hell would you EVER have anything to teach me. I know The Truth and I know the Holy Spirit and God, well he’s sitting to my left to my right, He is up-down-all-around and what you got? What exactly is it that you know that I don’t, b’cause if you’ve never outright asked for the truth then all you got is a book buddy.

Just post the quote dude because I was at work and on a tiny little cell phone for which I’d have to log out, google, log back in, all this just to reply to your concerns to my ignorance when all the while it’s likely we’re in agreement, but you’d had to have read a page further to discover a post written by me which states – I’m down with the Trinity.

Question for you: Jesus says He is The Truth and to get to The Father you first must go through Him. Elaborate on this message please and describe what exactly this truth looks like. And tell me about the Holy Spirit because a lot of people talking about it but nobody besides me appears to want to discuss personal accounts with, what if ever seen and felt would by no means one want to shy away from sharing this most divine experience if another asked for the details.

So what can you bring besides some Bible quotes even though you didn’t even do that for me?
 
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ludin said:
educating yourself can be a good thing. that is why we go to school. in this case i am teaching you in a theology course.
so in essence yes that is your homework.

a 5 second google search will give you the answer and i also recommenting the next 3 or 4 verses to get the full sense of what is being said.
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Get somebody to teach you about capital letters.
 
serato said:
If you wish to divest my ego from its soul with superior education, or in your case a quote from the Bible to which you likely had to look up before stepping to me, know this now I was standing amongst a crowed and not allowed much time to google thoughts from a character (you) yet to distinguish himself worthy of issuing after-school assignments.

And since your second reply decided to let the little ego inside you run around the playground without parental supervision, without taking a moment to state the full Biblical text that admittedly I do not have memorized, rather you’d insult my assumed laziness instead, yeah all this makes me wonder why on earth I’d ever consider taking you serious when I’m going to bat this post out of the park with a homerun and say with all seriousness that never in a hot summer day in hell would you EVER have anything to teach me. I know The Truth and I know the Holy Spirit and God, well he’s sitting to my left to my right, He is up-down-all-around and what you got? What exactly is it that you know that I don’t, b’cause if you’ve never outright asked for the truth then all you got is a book buddy.

Just post the quote dude because I was at work and on a tiny little cell phone for which I’d have to log out, google, log back in, all this just to reply to your concerns to my ignorance when all the while it’s likely we’re in agreement, but you’d had to have read a page further to discover a post written by me which states – I’m down with the Trinity.

Question for you: Jesus says He is The Truth and to get to The Father you first must go through Him. Elaborate on this message please and describe what exactly this truth looks like. And tell me about the Holy Spirit because a lot of people talking about it but nobody besides me appears to want to discuss personal accounts with, what if ever seen and felt would by no means one want to shy away from sharing this most divine experience if another asked for the details.

So what can you bring besides some Bible quotes even though you didn’t even do that for me?
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all hot air have a nice day. i gave you the scripture to backup what i was saying that is all i needed to do. if you can't take 5 seconds to google john 1:1 then well you really are not interested in any kind of discussion.
 
zyzygy said:
Get somebody to teach you about capital letters.
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typical non-argument. an irrelevent to the discussion as well.
IE epic failure.
 
ludin said:
all hot air have a nice day. i gave you the scripture to backup what i was saying that is all i needed to do. if you can't take 5 seconds to google john 1:1 then well you really are not interested in any kind of discussion.
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You didn’t post any scripture towards me other than typing John 1:1 in the first post directed towards me. So my questioning reply received no further information except for a high and mighty pedestal reply. When how ironic it is you lecture me on laziness with a “too out-of-shape to run a five second google lap”, when five seconds would be all that’s necessary for you to have properly followed up John 1:1 with its written message. And now you’re accusing me of avoiding serious discussion when it was you, not me, it was you whom wished to grab my attention which my third post to you admitted we’re in agreement on the Trinity. And don’t think for a moment that I didn’t notice your avoidance of my question put forth to you about Jesus being the truth and to get to The Father is to go through Him, yeah once again I’ll ask: can you elaborate on this message?



Do you see where I’m going with all this? Perhaps it’s you needing a theological lesson from me, for I asked for truth and with three breaths that took all breaths away, led by the hand, I was take to The Truth and IT reached out and literally zapped me in the stomach and exhilarating doesn’t begin to describe what was the beginning to the end of ignorance, for I once was. And now I’ll step to any Priest, any Pope, a puppet a muppet for I don’t care because I’m truly enlightened. So what you got since you trying to get all frisky with me?

I love discussions but anyone can post Bible quotes, so just talk to me instead of giving a sermon and that will get a much warmer reception.
 
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