• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

What have they done to Christ?

nota bene said:
Yes, the differences are huge. Huge. But we are called on not to judge and to speak the truth in love. It's not easy--I fall short every other minute of every single day, sigh. I just try to remember who most enjoys dissension among the brethren and remain confident that our Creator will sort us all and separate the sheep from the goats.
Click to expand...

we are also called to defend the gospel from thsoe that would distort it as well. i can do both i can defend and not judge. if it saves 1 person from getting a false view of things then i did my job.
 
ludin said:
we are also called to defend the gospel from thsoe that would distort it as well. i can do both i can defend and not judge. if it saves 1 person from getting a false view of things then i did my job.
Click to expand...

I agree. Heresy is what it is (and also, apparently, one person's heresy is another's orthodoxy). ;)

But I would add that sometimes our only job is to let our light so shine before men that....
 
Some things are much easier than they appear. Jesus said "Believe in Me". He didn't say "believe in Paul, believe in the preacher on the corner, believe in an organized bureaucracy, or believe in any other person who claims authority. He said "Believe in Me"

As such, the best approach is to open up the N.T., read the red letters, and attempt to follow them.
 
NoC_T said:
Christ's message was more or less screwed, the moment he became a religious icon.
Click to expand...

It was the moment when Paul the usurper stepped in and crafted the religion to represent his own message rather than that of Jesus.
 
Gardener said:
It was the moment when Paul the usurper stepped in and crafted the religion to represent his own message rather than that of Jesus.
Click to expand...

lol what do you base this on? Paul didn't usurper anything. if anything that is exactly what he was preventing.
 
ludin said:
lol what do you base this on? Paul didn't usurper anything. if anything that is exactly what he was preventing.
Click to expand...

I base it on the fact that Paul was persecuting the followers of Jesus one minute and running the show the next. He never met Jesus, his message is inconsistant with that of Jesus, and just about any time modern-day pharisees seek to justify their intolerance, they inevitably refer to Paul or the O.T. rather than Jesus.
 
Gardener said:
I base it on the fact that Paul was persecuting the followers of Jesus one minute and running the show the next. He never met Jesus, his message is inconsistant with that of Jesus, and just about any time modern-day pharisees seek to justify their intolerance, they inevitably refer to Paul or the O.T. rather than Jesus.
Click to expand...

:doh

I think you need to do some more church history. he wasn't running the show the very next day. he spent years and year and years being taught and dsicipled. he had to wait enough time so that when he emerged that people would trust him not to turn them in. this didn't happen overnight.

He knew their disciples. yes he did meet Jesus personally face to face on the road to damascus or did you just forget that part.

actually his message is consistant with Christs although Paul is more concerned with church instruction and guidance.
Yes paul condemned immoral behavior but so did Christ.
 
ludin said:
If you actually read 1corinthians 1:10 it is not talking about God but the divisions in the church.
so you are implying a false narrative.

2 Corinthians is dealing again with the church of corinth and paul is warning them about people that teach something other than what he laid the foundation on. basically if you hear people claiming that Christ is not the Son of God, but an angel or some other being. That Christ wasn't who he said he was then they should avoid those people as false prophets.

Paul goes onto write in Romans speaking of the Israelites.

5 To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen.
Click to expand...


The false gospel is a trinity--Paul, Peter, John and Jesus are all in 100% agreement--Jesus has a God-his Father. As well as the false teaching that Jesus is God. Its an impossibility for that to be with Gods justice scales.
 
Gardener said:
I base it on the fact that Paul was persecuting the followers of Jesus one minute and running the show the next. He never met Jesus, his message is inconsistant with that of Jesus, and just about any time modern-day pharisees seek to justify their intolerance, they inevitably refer to Paul or the O.T. rather than Jesus.
Click to expand...


Paul is in agreement with the teachings of Jesus--Few know the teachings of Jesus to be able to compare them.
 
kjw47 said:
The false gospel is a trinity--Paul, Peter, John and Jesus are all in 100% agreement--Jesus has a God-his Father. As well as the false teaching that Jesus is God. Its an impossibility for that to be with Gods justice scales.
Click to expand...

Nope not at all. what is false teaching is claiming that Jesus is not Lord and Savior. that He is not the Son of God, but some angelic being.
That He is not one with God and the Holy Spirit even though there is plenty of scripture so say that He is one with the Father.

BIBLE VERSES ABOUT THE TRINITY

plenty of verses that support the trinity.
 
Last edited:
Cable said:
It is a difficult thing to understand, but we have what Christ said about himself.
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.
Click to expand...


I think there is something more to it. To be taken literally has never made sense to me and maybe someday I'll share my thoughts with you. It's something I think about often.
 
ludin said:
Nope not at all. what is false teaching is claiming that Jesus is not Lord and Savior. that He is not the Son of God, but some angelic being.
That He is not one with God and the Holy Spirit even though there is plenty of scripture so say that He is one with the Father.

BIBLE VERSES ABOUT THE TRINITY

plenty of verses that support the trinity.
Click to expand...


I am taught Jesus is lord and savior. Since its 100% fact--Jesus, Paul, Peter and John all teach--Jesus has a God-his Father--they must all believe--God has a God. And you must believe that as well. That would be more than one God if God has a God.
Trinity translations are erred.
 
Gardener said:
I base it on the fact that Paul was persecuting the followers of Jesus one minute and running the show the next. He never met Jesus, his message is inconsistant with that of Jesus, and just about any time modern-day pharisees seek to justify their intolerance, they inevitably refer to Paul or the O.T. rather than Jesus.
Click to expand...

So you believe the parts of the Bible you want to believe?
 
serato said:
I think there is something more to it. To be taken literally has never made sense to me and maybe someday I'll share my thoughts with you. It's something I think about often.
Click to expand...

I would be interested to hear. :)
 
Cable said:
So you believe the parts of the Bible you want to believe?
Click to expand...

I distinguish between that which is from Jesus and that which isn't.
 
Gardener said:
I distinguish between that which is from Jesus and that which isn't.
Click to expand...

Wasn't Paul from Jesus? Jesus grabbed hold of him on the road and set him down the right direction.
He didn't come talk to a ton of folks, so Paul must have been one he had plans for.
And as it turns out, did a right fine job of things.
I am particularly fond of Pual's testimony before Agrippa

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts 26:1-29
 
kjw47 said:
I am taught Jesus is lord and savior. Since its 100% fact--Jesus, Paul, Peter and John all teach--Jesus has a God-his Father--they must all believe--God has a God. And you must believe that as well. That would be more than one God if God has a God.
Trinity translations are erred.
Click to expand...

it isn't more than one God if they are all God or all a part of God.
there were no erred translations and you have no proof that they were.
 
Cable said:
This post is about Christ, and what "they" have done to him over the course of history.
In my study of God and Christ, the one theme that seems to repeat over and over is the theme of man placing himself in the position of God.
This very action is the reason for the fall of Lucifer.
There are many examples of these attempts at the usurping of God's divinity.
It usually happens on a personal level. But quite often, almost ubiquitously in the Judeo-Christian world, it happens with the organized cult. A close parallel of Biblical Christianity, but a deviation based on the destruction of the Christ.
This discussion assumes, as noted in the scripture, that Christ is God. I don't want to debate this particular issue here. If you disagree, then open a new thread about it. For the sake of this discussion we assume this as fact.
It would be interesting to hear your take on what others, either individually or as a cult have done to Christ in this respect, and why you think it has been done.

The best lie is 99% truth.
Click to expand...

I don't like to use the word cult due to it leading to samantic discussions, but yes, you're describing Protestantism quite well.
 
ludin said:
it isn't more than one God if they are all God or all a part of God.
there were no erred translations and you have no proof that they were.
Click to expand...


Jesus clearly teaches--the one who sent him=Father= the only true God-John 17:3
We all must choose who we believe--God gave all the key to success-----This is my son the beloved, in whom I am well pleased--LISTEN TO HIM.
 
kjw47 said:
Jesus clearly teaches--the one who sent him=Father= the only true God-John 17:3
We all must choose who we believe--God gave all the key to success-----This is my son the beloved, in whom I am well pleased--LISTEN TO HIM.
Click to expand...

Yep 3 separate people 1 God.

please see the scripture link that i posted that confirms this.
 
ludin said:
Yep 3 separate people 1 God.

please see the scripture link that i posted that confirms this.
Click to expand...

Even Paul says you are in error-1Cor 8:6
 
Cable said:
This post is about Christ, and what "they" have done to him over the course of history.
In my study of God and Christ, the one theme that seems to repeat over and over is the theme of man placing himself in the position of God.
This very action is the reason for the fall of Lucifer.
There are many examples of these attempts at the usurping of God's divinity.
It usually happens on a personal level. But quite often, almost ubiquitously in the Judeo-Christian world, it happens with the organized cult. A close parallel of Biblical Christianity, but a deviation based on the destruction of the Christ.
This discussion assumes, as noted in the scripture, that Christ is God. I don't want to debate this particular issue here. If you disagree, then open a new thread about it. For the sake of this discussion we assume this as fact.
It would be interesting to hear your take on what others, either individually or as a cult have done to Christ in this respect, and why you think it has been done.

The best lie is 99% truth.
Click to expand...

No question that man has a long history of trying to define God in his (man's) own image. Man consistently wants to tell us who God is and what God wants. In fact, I submit the very existence of the Trinity is an example of man trying to define God and the relationship of God to the son.... but, hey, you did not want to go down the path, so we won't.
 
ludin said:
Nope not at all. what is false teaching is claiming that Jesus is not Lord and Savior. that He is not the Son of God, but some angelic being.
That He is not one with God and the Holy Spirit even though there is plenty of scripture so say that He is one with the Father.

BIBLE VERSES ABOUT THE TRINITY

plenty of verses that support the trinity.
Click to expand...

You are missing a very important subtly here: Saying Jesus is NOT God is NOT saying that Jesus is not the Son of God; the Christ (Messiah); Lord and Savior. He can be all of the later and not actually be God. In fact, the Bible is very clear about what Jesus is... except God, there is generally a stretch to make that statement. Being the Son of the Living God and being the Messiah is the important part; whether he was God incarnate, is not.

Again, plenty of space for a Trinity discussion; but the construct of the Trinity is a creation of man. There are tons of verses that refute that construct, which, in fact, was not established doctrine until 400 years after the death of Christ.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom