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Malachi 1:11

phattonez

phattonez

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"For from the rising of the sun to its setting my name is great among the nations, and in every place incense is offered to my name, and a pure offering; for my name is great among the nations, says the Lord of hosts."
Adoration Servents said:
The verse’s starting phrase “For from the rising of the sun to its setting” is also found in Ps 50:1; Ps 113:3; Is 45:6; and Is 59:19. These verses look towards a future display of the God’s greatness and power to the whole world.
. . .
So the people to whom this prophecy was directed would foresee that at some point in the future God would perfect his people and perhaps establish many temples in every nation where the pure offerings would be made and with which God would be pleased.
. . .
Some interpreters propose the incense and pure offerings of Mal 1:11 are the acceptable offerings presented by foreigners in Is 56:6-7, 60:7 and understand incense to mean prayers (Rev 5:8) and “offerings” to mean “praise” (Heb 3:15).[7] The offerings spoke of and to which the Jews would understand were a lot of work for those involved. Animal sacrifice and burnt offerings took time, strength, and dedication in addition to the sacrificial animals/objects themselves. The Hebrew words in Mal 1:11 tell us these offerings are of the same type that God has been complaining about in the previous Malachi verses. This prophecy of universal offerings was no mere “sacrifice of praise and thanksgiving” and if anyone at the time would have suggested that simple prayer to Almighty God was all that was being talked about in verse 1:11, they would have been thought בער ולא אדע(ignorant and stupid).
No, the prophecy of 1:11, taken in the context of 1:6-10 and 1:12-2:9 surely referred to physical sacrifice and not merely prayers or sacrifices of praise. In fact, the Hebrew uses the words תּודה (tôdâh) and שׁם(shêm) for “sacrifice of praise” as can be found in Lev 22:29, Psalms 50:14, 50:23, 116:17, and Amos 4:5. These verses clearly show an offering of prayer and had that been the intent of Mal 1:11, this wording would have been used.
. . .
Mal 1:11 is indeed a prophecy that has been fulfilled in an extremely obvious worldwide manner, ie, the Catholilc Mass.
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http://blog.adorationservants.org/2013/02/21/malachi-111-is-the-catholic-mass/

I know it's long, but I recommend that you look at this analysis in depth. It is quite profound and definitely raises issues about the proper worship that God expects from us.
 
Couldn't the "offering" be faith; that being, giving God the sovereignty that Adam and Eve took for ourselves?
 
ecofarm said:
Couldn't the "offering" be faith; that being, giving God the sovereignty that Adam and Eve took for ourselves?
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The author makes the case that it is a clear reference to physical sacrifice.

Adoration Servents said:
Some interpreters propose the incense and pure offerings of Mal 1:11 are the acceptable offerings presented by foreigners in Is 56:6-7, 60:7 and understand incense to mean prayers (Rev 5:8) and “offerings” to mean “praise” (Heb 3:15).[7] The offerings spoke of and to which the Jews would understand were a lot of work for those involved. Animal sacrifice and burnt offerings took time, strength, and dedication in addition to the sacrificial animals/objects themselves. The Hebrew words in Mal 1:11 tell us these offerings are of the same type that God has been complaining about in the previous Malachi verses. This prophecy of universal offerings was no mere “sacrifice of praise and thanksgiving” and if anyone at the time would have suggested that simple prayer to Almighty God was all that was being talked about in verse 1:11, they would have been thought בער ולא אדע(ignorant and stupid).
No, the prophecy of 1:11, taken in the context of 1:6-10 and 1:12-2:9 surely referred to physical sacrifice and not merely prayers or sacrifices of praise. In fact, the Hebrew uses the words תּודה (tôdâh) and שׁם(shêm) for “sacrifice of praise” as can be found in Lev 22:29, Psalms 50:14, 50:23, 116:17, and Amos 4:5. These verses clearly show an offering of prayer and had that been the intent of Mal 1:11, this wording would have been used.
Click to expand...
 
phattonez said:
The author makes the case that it is a clear reference to physical sacrifice.
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I already read the OP. I was suggesting faith is the key and was wondering why it cannot be interpreted as the offering, given God's sovereignty is the heart of the heavenly and earthly conflicts.
 
ecofarm said:
I already read the OP. I was suggesting faith is the key and was wondering why it cannot be interpreted as the offering, given God's sovereignty is the heart of the heavenly and earthly conflicts.
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Because it doesn't address the physical aspect of the sacrifice.
 
phattonez said:
Because it doesn't address the physical aspect of the sacrifice.
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Perhaps the physical sacrifice is offering ourselves as servants of God through faith and thus the re-establishment of His sovereignty.
 
ecofarm said:
Perhaps the physical sacrifice is offering ourselves as servants of God through faith and thus the re-establishment of His sovereignty.
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Not unless somehow we can consider our sinful selves as a "pure offering."
 
phattonez said:
Not unless somehow we can consider our sinful selves as a "pure offering."
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The pure offering is faith (belief in God's sovereignty). Even if incomplete and imperfect, faith itself is pure.
 
ecofarm said:
The pure offering is faith (belief in God's sovereignty). Even if incomplete and imperfect, faith itself is pure.
Click to expand...

I think that John the Baptist is quite clear about what the pure offering is: “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!" Talking about Jesus in John chapter 1.

This is a reference to Isaiah 53:

"He was oppressed, and he was afflicted,
yet he opened not his mouth;
like a lamb that is led to the slaughter,
and like a sheep that before its shearers is dumb,
so he opened not his mouth."

"Yet it was the will of the Lord to bruise him;
he has put him to grief;[g]
when he makes himself[h] an offering for sin"
 
phattonez said:
I think that John the Baptist is quite clear about what the pure offering is: “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!" Talking about Jesus in John chapter 1.

This is a reference to Isaiah 53:

"He was oppressed, and he was afflicted,
yet he opened not his mouth;
like a lamb that is led to the slaughter,
and like a sheep that before its shearers is dumb,
so he opened not his mouth."

"Yet it was the will of the Lord to bruise him;
he has put him to grief;[g]
when he makes himself[h] an offering for sin"
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Is not our opportunity to walk with the Spirit, in attempt to be more like Jesus. While we cannot be pure, our offerings of faith (and thus ourselves) are pure in and of themselves even if we are not pure.
 
ecofarm said:
Is not our opportunity to walk with the Spirit, in attempt to be more like Jesus. While we cannot be pure, our offerings of faith (and thus ourselves) are pure in and of themselves even if we are not pure.
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Isaiah 53 is talking about our faith and not Jesus?
 
phattonez said:
Isaiah 53 is talking about our faith and not Jesus?
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I'm inclined to believe Is 53 is referring to the Christ, but faith in and of itself is a pure offering.
 
ecofarm said:
I'm inclined to believe Is 53 is referring to the Christ, but faith in and of itself is a pure offering.
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How can our faith as an offering (which is still a dubious concept) in any way match the offering of Christ? How can any offering be acceptable after Christ, except for Christ Himself?
 
phattonez said:
How can our faith as an offering (which is still a dubious concept) in any way match the offering of Christ? How can any offering be acceptable after Christ, except for Christ Himself?
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Christ's real sacrifice was pure faith, the restoring of God's sovereignty. Are we not to be like Christ?
 
ecofarm said:
Christ's real sacrifice was pure faith, the restoring of God's sovereignty. Are we not to be like Christ?
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So the sacrifice was Jesus' faith? The sacrifice wasn't the agony in the garden, the scourging at the pillar, the crowning with thorns, the carrying of the cross, or the crucifixion?
 
phattonez said:
So the sacrifice was Jesus' faith? The sacrifice wasn't the agony in the garden, the scourging at the pillar, the crowning with thorns, the carrying of the cross, or the crucifixion?
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Everyone's sacrifice is to cast away our own judgement, secured by Adam and Eve as a result of the heavenly conflict, and return to God His sovereignty through faith. Ours is just not 100% like Christ's.
 
ecofarm said:
Everyone's sacrifice is to cast away our own judgement, secured by Adam and Eve as a result of the heavenly conflict, and return to God His sovereignty through faith. Ours is just not 100% like Christ's.
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This is not answering the point. After the sacrifice of Jesus, which was a physical sacrifice by His death on the cross, no other sacrifice is acceptable. Hebrews 10:10 "And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."

There is no other offering besides Christ. The pure offering offered in every place to the Lord by the Gentiles is Christ. It is the Mass.
 
phattonez said:
This is not answering the point. After the sacrifice of Jesus, which was a physical sacrifice by His death on the cross, no other sacrifice is acceptable. Hebrews 10:10 "And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."
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First, I'm not inclined to interpret the Bible as concerning physical things. I find it to be a spiritual guide and physical things are metaphors for spiritual matters. For example, I find reference to food to be reference to spiritual learning. Second, though we are sanctified by Christ and only acceptable to God by Christ bestowing upon us his perfect faith in God's judgement, that does not mean we are free to wallow in sin. We must sacrifice our sovereignty to God, as demonstrated metaphorically by the sacrifice of goats in the OT and many other metaphorical examples.

There is no other offering besides Christ. The pure offering offered in every place to the Lord by the Gentiles is Christ. It is the Mass.
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We all make offerings of sovereignty through faith, but only Christ's faith was perfect. Only Christ's faith can save, but we are also called to return to God the sovereignty Lucifer took for himself in heaven and tricked Adam to take in the Garden.

Our ultimate purpose is to glorify God's sovereignty through the sacrifice of our own.

20 I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
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https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians+2:20&version=ESV

We do not sacrifice as well? Sure we do, ours is just not perfect. Our faith, our returning of His sovereignty, is not 100% as Christ's was.

If His crucifixion was a sacrifice then how can ours, with Him, not also be?
 
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ecofarm said:
The pure offering is faith (belief in God's sovereignty). Even if incomplete and imperfect, faith itself is pure.
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This is it exactly. There is no more need for physical sacrifice. Christ was the last physical sacrifice.
there is personal sacrifice IE giving up things you love more than God but that is a bit different.
 
phattonez said:
"For from the rising of the sun to its setting my name is great among the nations, and in every place incense is offered to my name, and a pure offering; for my name is great among the nations, says the Lord of hosts."



http://blog.adorationservants.org/2013/02/21/malachi-111-is-the-catholic-mass/

I know it's long, but I recommend that you look at this analysis in depth. It is quite profound and definitely raises issues about the proper worship that God expects from us.
Click to expand...

There is not one exclusive organization that can claim to be the fulfillment of the prophecy. Offerings are given in His name which can be from simple donations of money, service, vows and personal covenants, charitable works, support to spread His Word, etc.., by so many believers of varying shades.


Mark 12
The Widow’s Offering
41 Jesus sat down opposite the place where the offerings were put and watched the crowd putting their money into the temple treasury. Many rich people threw in large amounts. 42 But a poor widow came and put in two very small copper coins, worth only a few cents.

43 Calling his disciples to him, Jesus said, “Truly I tell you, this poor widow has put more into the treasury than all the others. 44 They all gave out of their wealth; but she, out of her poverty, put in everything—all she had to live on.”


It's the intention. What's in one's heart when he makes his humble offering that counts. After all....it's not about the offering, really. God doesn't need money or anything since He is the one who provides. It's about what is in our hearts....the meaning behind the gesture.
 
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