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NOAH is one of the worst movies I'd ever seen!

Ockham said:
Hollywood has run out of ideas a loooong time ago.
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I don't think this is peculiar to Hollywood. In the last 2500 years, there have only been three or four ideas that weren't thought of by the Pre-Socratic Greek Philosophers, at least in the Western world. Well, fewer than ten, anyway.
 
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ashurbanipal said:
As I said, Aronofsky made no pretense of trying to stay true to the narrative in Genesis. He's said that several times. The point was to make a movie about fanaticism, and how easy it is for some people to think that God commands them to kill, when in fact God wants nothing of the sort.
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Well....his point is convoluted, if that's the message he wanted to give. Fanaticism is definitely out!

First of all, in his movie.....he gave an indication that God indeed was "communicating" with Noah. The miracles such as the rapid growth of a plant, and the woodlands, animals coming to the ark, were witnessed by Noah and his family! No one can say that Noah was simply hallucinating....the miracles were experienced by his entourage!

When God showed everyone His mighty power, and that He holds all their lives in His hand.....Arofnosky says Noah is being a "fanatic" for trying to follow and please this almighty Power? When he already knows that God meant to obliterate all of mankind? :lol:

Who wouldn't try to please anyone who holds your very life in His hands? What more if it's a God who can't be stopped? How is that "fanaticism?"


If we follow the logic of Arofnosky's story idea (and disregard the actual Genesis account) - the logic will have to be that Noah was right, and that he has to make sure all people (including his own family and himself) die.
If God was communicating with Noah all the way from the beginning....it should be Noah who'll know what God wants (not his wife or his daughter in-law who acted that they knew more than Noah did!)
Suddenly, Noah is so densed he can't get what's so obvious to the women?


The movie failed to make sense. All that talk and strong conviction of Noah that God has to be obeyed (and Noah meant really to kill his granddaughter)....and later on (after he scared his family witless), without any strong reason, he suddenly changed his tune? And the women understood God better than Noah did.

OHh....the super-women, really. Hollywood has to elevate them at every turn! :mrgreen:

It's a cheesy movie....with an A-list cast. It's done by a confused man who can't make up his mind if he'll make a fantasy disaster, or a secularly politically-correct statement that pegs down the Christian God - yet at the same time he counts on the Christians to turn this into a blockbuster! Good thing I only rented the movie, at a discount to boot.

I'd give it a C+. Because of Russel Crow and Hopkins and Winstone (Tubal Cain), and Jennifer Connelly.
Without them, it will be a D!

Come to think of it...I'd seen better acting from Russell Crow than that. He could be on the way down.
 
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Ockham said:
Hollywood plays to the masses for the $$$$. I'm surprised Noah wasn't a vampire killer and that GOD turned out to be the vampire God and the angels zombies. Hollywood has run out of ideas a loooong time ago.
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Zombie Noah would've been great! Or Shark attacks on the people in the water - SharkNado! :mrgreen:
 
tosca1 said:
Well....his point is convoluted, if that's the message he wanted to give. Fanaticism is definitely out!

First of all, in his movie.....he gave an indication that God indeed was "communicating" with Noah. The miracles such as the rapid growth of a plant, and the woodlands, animals coming to the ark, were witnessed by Noah and his family! No one can say that Noah was simply hallucinating....the miracles were experienced by his entourage!
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I don't think that's the point. These weren't halucinations, as you say. But they're also difficult to interpret. Noah understood them only partially.

tosca1 said:
When God showed everyone His mighty power, and that He holds all their lives in His hand.....Arofnosky says Noah is being a "fanatic" for trying to follow and please this almighty Power? When he already knows that God meant to obliterate all of mankind?
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Is that what God intended? It seems obvious to me that God intended that Noah and his family live. Noah got it right in the begining. Love, devotion, duty, kindness. But as the evil of human beings appeared in ways impossible for him to ignore, his biases as a human being overcame the basic lessons he had learned earlier in his life.

There is a parallel in the instructions of the mystical orders of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. The rule is that one must first be established in the law before undertaking genuine instruction. This is because when God speaks, it is always partially beyond human comprehension. The human mind simply cannot compass the whole of even a single one of God's thoughts. People are too apt to to flatter their own prejudices by interpeting unclear symbols in favor of flattering their own desires.

There's no question that fanatics are devoted. Whatever else you can say about people who deliberately strap on vests of dynamite and blow themselves up, or who kill others because they believe that's what God wants, you cannot say they lack devotion. What they lack, in the very first place, is memory. They forget the first lessons.

tosca1 said:
Who wouldn't try to please anyone who holds your very life in His hands? What more if it's a God who can't be stopped? How is that "fanaticism?"
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I would not, if that God were evil.

tosca1 said:
If we follow the logic of Arofnosky's story idea (and disregard the actual Genesis account) - the logic will have to be that Noah was right, and that he has to make sure all people (including his own family and himself) die.
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That seems incorrect to me. It seemed to me, rather, that God wished for Noah and his family to live.

tosca1 said:
If God was communicating with Noah all the way from the beginning....it should be Noah who'll know what God wants (not his wife or his daughter in-law who acted that they knew more than Noah did!)
Suddenly, Noah is so densed he can't get what's so obvious to the women?
Click to expand...

All human beings are fallible. That Noah had received visions is no guarantee that he might one day fail.

tosca1 said:
The movie failed to make sense. All that talk and strong conviction of Noah that God has to be obeyed (and Noah meant really to kill his granddaughter)....and later on (after he scared his family witless), without any strong reason, he suddenly changed his tune?
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He had the very strongest reason: Love. And Aronofsky had a good reason to play this part just as he did: to show the truth that John records in his first epistle. God is Love.

tosca1 said:
And the women understood God better than Noah did.

OHh....the super-women, really. Hollywood has to elevate them at every turn!
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What's wrong with a woman understanding God better than a man? More perspicuously, what's wrong with some specific woman understanding God better than some specific man?
 
ashurbanipal said:
I don't think that's the point. These weren't halucinations, as you say. But they're also difficult to interpret. Noah understood them only partially.



Is that what God intended? It seems obvious to me that God intended that Noah and his family live. Noah got it right in the begining. Love, devotion, duty, kindness. But as the evil of human beings appeared in ways impossible for him to ignore, his biases as a human being overcame the basic lessons he had learned earlier in his life.

There is a parallel in the instructions of the mystical orders of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. The rule is that one must first be established in the law before undertaking genuine instruction. This is because when God speaks, it is always partially beyond human comprehension. The human mind simply cannot compass the whole of even a single one of God's thoughts. People are too apt to to flatter their own prejudices by interpeting unclear symbols in favor of flattering their own desires.

There's no question that fanatics are devoted. Whatever else you can say about people who deliberately strap on vests of dynamite and blow themselves up, or who kill others because they believe that's what God wants, you cannot say they lack devotion. What they lack, in the very first place, is memory. They forget the first lessons.



I would not, if that God were evil.



That seems incorrect to me. It seemed to me, rather, that God wished for Noah and his family to live.



All human beings are fallible. That Noah had received visions is no guarantee that he might one day fail.



He had the very strongest reason: Love. And Aronofsky had a good reason to play this part just as he did: to show the truth that John records in his first epistle. God is Love.



What's wrong with a woman understanding God better than a man? More perspicuously, what's wrong with some specific woman understanding God better than some specific man?
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The point is: his execution of the movie is convoluted! Some major parts don't make any sense - as explained above.


The movie did suggest this:

Noah understood them only partially.
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Yet throughout the movie, God was interacting only with Noah! Suddenly, the women knew more than him?
The women understood completely yet Noah - whom God communicates with - had understood only partially?
That doesn't make any sense at all - it's not logical.:lol:

Arofnosky should've given an indication how the women could've had complete understanding. All the time, they all relied on and believed Noah's interpretation because they knew God was communicating with him, and they witnessed the signs God had given Noah.

For them to have been witnesses to the signs God gave Noah should've made them follow EVERY INSTRUCTIONS WITHOUT ANY QUESTION, after all they know why mankind is being wiped off in the first place: DISOBEDIENCE. That should be the logical reaction given their experience and close encounter with God, and consistent with their characterization earlier in the movie.
 
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I think a lot of people went to see it expecting dazzling special effects.

What needs to be re-made too will be "The Ten Commandments."
 
tosca1 said:
The point is: his execution of the movie is convoluted! Some major parts don't make any sense - as explained above.
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Well, they make sense to me...which is, I think, de facto evidence that they do in fact make sense. Although, I would agree that this was not his best movie. I'd say fourth-best so far (The Fountain, Pi, and The Wrestler are better; this one was better than Black Swan and Requiem for a Dream).

tosca1 said:
Yet throughout the movie, God was interacting only with Noah! Suddenly, the women knew more than him?
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I don't know that we can make such an assumption. God may well have interacted with the women either in ways or on levels that are more difficult to apprehend. Again, establishment in the law is an important concept. When a zelator goes off half-cocked after getting some vision, someone with no visions to their name can still correct them through that establishment. It's all too easy to think your vision means that God wants you to drive planes into buildings. But even an eight-year-old who read the basics of the Qur'an would know that God doesn't want that. The same can be said for the relevant Christian and Jewish exemplars.

tosca1 said:
The women understood completely yet Noah - whom God communicates with - had understood only partially?
That doesn't make any sense at all - it's not logical.
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It seems to me that you're thinking in very binary terms. Understanding is not all or nothing, and furthermore, it cannot be adequately measured on a scale. Noah failed to understand one point that everyone else in his family did understand (the women and the men). And he himself finally got it.

Arofnosky should've given an indication how the women could've had complete understanding. All the time, they all relied on and believed Noah's interpretation because they knew God was communicating with him, and they witnessed the signs God had given Noah.

tosca1 said:
For them to have been witnesses to the signs God gave Noah should've made them follow EVERY INSTRUCTIONS WITHOUT ANY QUESTION, after all they know why mankind is being wiped off in the first place: DISOBEDIENCE. That should be the logical reaction given their experience and close encounter with God, and consistent with their characterization earlier in the movie.
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The relevant question for them is who they're obeying. Is it God? Or merely Noah's interpretation of God? Another way to state the point of the movie is that this is always a relevant question.

I'm sure you've played the old grapevine game. If you tell me some instructions, especially if those are somewhat unclear, and then I convey those to others, there is apt to be some difference in what you intended and what is carried out.
 
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