• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Allah v God

Status
Not open for further replies.
We're not allowed to talk about His Noodliness in this forum. Religious bigotry can only come from a theistic perspective.

Sorry Spud. The truth is that your views on my religious beliefs are confusing to me and I don't really know where you stand anymore. You totally don't owe me any explanations (I'm probably wouldn't be really open to them right now anyway). Sometimes you just surprise me.
 
The Bible says to "know them by their fruits." Muslims sure seem to enjoy killing people? They argue, the West kills more people?
A cursory understanding of history makes it very clear that both Christians and Muslims wage devastating wars, often on the basis of religion, and kill lots of people, and have done so for centuries.

Drawing a conclusion exclusively on the past ~15 years makes no sense whatsoever.


There were lots of cheering Muslims after 9/11, but virtually none who publicly denounced it?
Let me google that for you


Some make the case that the one "god" Muslims worship is Satan.
And Muslims find similar negative terms for Christians and their worship. What's your point?


After all, there is only one Satan
Not quite. Satan, Baal, Beelzebub, Belial, Mephistopholes... There's a variety of evil entities, mostly imported from other religions, in Christian demonology. Christian demonology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


I often make the case America was founded on God (the God of Israel) and God's grant of free-will.....
I'm sure you do. But in fact, it was founded by men, and few of their ideas were derived from the New Testament. Concepts like political rights, limited government, elected officials, competing branches of government, constitutional law, and the importance of "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" do not exist anywhere in the New Testament. They were drawn from the philosophies of men as varied as Locke, Hume, Hobbes, Rousseau and others.


I've also made the case that liberalism is aligned with Satan.
Nice. Good to see that you have a healthy dose of the basic tolerance that makes a pluralistic society possible. :doh


Are Muslim's simply plagued with a faction of Satanists, like we in the West are plagued with liberal's? Or are they worshiping a different god, or Satan himself?
They submit to Allah. That's why they are Muslims. And it is just as easy for them to proclaim that Christians are the ones who are wrong, and are worshipping Satan, as it is for a Christian to make that accusation against a Muslim.


Billions of souls are on the line and billion's of people are weighing the choice? The Middle East is in flames and the fire is spreading. Sixteen countries are involved in violent overthrows of their governments.....
This sort of "contest of good versus evil" is, in fact, derived from the pagan belief of Manichaeism.

Manichaeism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Radical Islam bases much of its indictment of the West on the sexual corruptions - the gay agenda. How can we Westerner's make the "know them by their fruits" argument against Muslims or radical Muslims, when we legalize SSM?
Egads

Muslims and Christians have been fighting, on and off, for well over a thousand years. It certainly didn't start with, or because of, the rise of gay rights groups in the US. The current conflicts have nothing to do with sexual permissiveness, it's a result of European powers colonizing the Arab world, screwing things up, taking their resources and propping up dictators for decades after the colonial arrangements ended, as well as supporting Israel. Religion is merely a convenient fig leaf for the political issues.


The question of "do Muslims and Christians worship the same deity?" is a complex theological and historical question. Your proposals here lack the basic understanding, and the basic ability to regard these two religions neutrally, to even begin to address the issue.
 
Im sorry, when god "kills" [as reported by man] it is not murder. They say he did that flood thing. That sure did murder/kill/cease to live a lot of people.

Indiscriminate bombing...indiscriminate flooding, yeah I see a pattern.

this post makes 0 sense.
 
this does not address what he said. there are major differences between allah and God as he cited.

He is selective and interpreting based on what he thinks will maintain his strangle hold on his flock and not on facts.

The only major "disagreement" between the Koran and Bible is the stature of Jesus as the son of God. Both say he is a prophet. And one could easily argue that the "son of god" bit was something that could have been added later on during the various "revisions" by the Church and its allies.. just as the revision that Mary Magdalena was a whore and not the wife.

i guess you didn't even read the article.

I dont have too, I know what he and people like him say. They are highly selective in their historical basis and always paint Christianity in a positive light despite it being far from it.

Like it or not Christianity has been interpreted over the centuries in many ways, to justitfy genocide, beating of women and children, rape, murder, and so on. It is his religious ideas that have meant that being homosexual in Uganda could (until yesterday) land you in jail and even put to death. It is his religion that burns children as witches in Nigeria. It is his religion that allows child molesters to go free just because they are "Holy men". The list of abuses based on the bible and Christianity over the centuries is very long and all based on interpretations of a book that has been gutted to fit a certain point of view.. mostly male dominated.

Hence he is no different than the religious zealots in Iran or Saudi Arabia, that justify murder because they think it says so in a book.
 
Some say the God-of-Israel and Allah are different names of the the same God, some say they are different entities entirely. How are we to know who is correct?
Well, considering they regard the Torah as accurate and Jesus as one of the profits, isn't Jehovah and Allah the same God? At least that's what I always believed.
 
one of the 10 commendments God gave moses was thou shalt not kill so evidently God does not ordain murder as ok.
The correct translation would be "murder." Killing is accepted for various reasons.
 
Allah is simply the Arabic word for god. The Spanish word is "dios", French "dieu", every language has a word for god.

Humans have invented many gods over the centuries. Some of them have specific names like Thor or Jehova, but then generic term, in English, is god.

What makes Islam different from most religions is that it is not simply confined to the church or mosque, but pervades government as well. As long as its followers are able to impose their beliefs on others by force of law, which is what is happening in the Muslim countries, it is fundamentally different from Judaism or Christianity or Buddhism, or any other religion that allows for a separation of church and state. What we're talking about is not so much god or allah, but religion.
 
Some say the God-of-Israel and Allah are different names of the the same God, some say they are different entities entirely. How are we to know who is correct?

The Bible says to "know them by their fruits." Muslims sure seem to enjoy killing people? They argue, the West kills more people?

There were lots of cheering Muslims after 9/11, but virtually none who publicly denounced it? Some make the case that the one "god" Muslims worship is Satan. That the propensity to violence is evidence ("fruits") of Satanic influence and Satanic worship? After all, there is only one Satan, so worshiping "one entity" (monotheism) is no guarantee of righteousness.

I often make the case America was founded on God (the God of Israel) and God's grant of free-will. No less than four references to God appear in the Declaration of Independence. Every founder was Christian, every signer of the Declaration, the Constitution and every member of the Continental Congress (First and Second). America's blessings are secured by this tie to God. This foundation built on God and God's word.

All the fruits seem very clear, until one considers the sexual corruptions? Christian countries have gone beyond Jesus' forgiveness, into an orgy of permissiveness? Muslim's use this evidence of "fruits" to make the case the West isn't Godly at all.

I've also made the case that liberalism is aligned with Satan. From the Greens and ZPG'ers, who want fewer dirty human's spoiling their pristine wilderness, to abortionists, to the socialists who steal from those who work to give to those who won't, liberal's do Satan's bidding. Of this, there is virtually no question or rational argument - liberals do Satan's work. They can deny God and deny Satan's existence, but that argument only furthers Satan's agenda.

The real question regards Muslims and the fruit of their beliefs? Are Muslim's simply plagued with a faction of Satanists, like we in the West are plagued with liberal's? Or are they worshiping a different god, or Satan himself?

This isn't an academic argument, although scholarship may be required. Billions of souls are on the line and billion's of people are weighing the choice? The Middle East is in flames and the fire is spreading. Sixteen countries are involved in violent overthrows of their governments. Entire countries hang in the balance. Christians are being exterminated. Israel is under attack. This question of who serves the one true God of Israel is becoming absolutely crucial and nobody has made a dispositive case either way, in the decade since 9/11?

Radical Islam bases much of its indictment of the West on the sexual corruptions - the gay agenda. How can we Westerner's make the "know them by their fruits" argument against Muslims or radical Muslims, when we legalize SSM? How can we argue the West are the true follower's of God, when we codify what both Muslims and Judeo-Christian's agree, is un-Godly? Yes, radical Muslim's like to kill violently, but the West doesn't appear to be on the correct path either? How are 4B Christians and Muslims to decide who is correct with SSM legalized and sanctioned into law?

The question is not whether SSM should be eliminated, one presumes unanimity in this thread against SSM. Rather, the question regards Islam? Do Muslims worship the same God or not?

Christians and Jews went through violent phases at about the age of Islam too.

Its what happens when your god is too similar to a terrible human. It encourages the humans to be terrible too. To emulate god.

Its all the god of Abraham, and the current state of the middle east is a battle between sects. Not too different from the catholic/protestant battles Christianity went through.

Thankfully there's no way Yahweh is the entity responsible for creating the observed universe. That guy is much cooler. Much less needy and vindictive.
 
He is selective and interpreting based on what he thinks will maintain his strangle hold on his flock and not on facts.

The only major "disagreement" between the Koran and Bible is the stature of Jesus as the son of God. Both say he is a prophet. And one could easily argue that the "son of god" bit was something that could have been added later on during the various "revisions" by the Church and its allies.. just as the revision that Mary Magdalena was a whore and not the wife.



I dont have too, I know what he and people like him say. They are highly selective in their historical basis and always paint Christianity in a positive light despite it being far from it.

Like it or not Christianity has been interpreted over the centuries in many ways, to justitfy genocide, beating of women and children, rape, murder, and so on. It is his religious ideas that have meant that being homosexual in Uganda could (until yesterday) land you in jail and even put to death. It is his religion that burns children as witches in Nigeria. It is his religion that allows child molesters to go free just because they are "Holy men". The list of abuses based on the bible and Christianity over the centuries is very long and all based on interpretations of a book that has been gutted to fit a certain point of view.. mostly male dominated.

Hence he is no different than the religious zealots in Iran or Saudi Arabia, that justify murder because they think it says so in a book.

so you have nothing but strawmen arguments and ad hominems. thanks for the concession.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Closing for moderator review and potential actions.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom