I Want My Christianity Back (Without the Ugly Baggage)[W:89,166]

Posting this article from Time.com. It was written by a pastor, and co-founder of The Christian Left. It says so much of what I feel, about how embarrassed I am at the turn Christianity has taken. I just thought it'd be a nice read for anybody who felt the way I do.

I Want My Christianity Back

I don’t like telling people I’m a Christian.

It’s not that I’m ashamed of being a Christian; I’m not – at all. It is just that the word “Christian” comes with so much ugly baggage.

Telling someone I’m a Christian means I must immediately follow it up with, “but not that kind of Christian.” It’s like saying, “Yeah, sure, these are some mind bogglingly ugly suitcases, but I’ve got the coolest stuff on the inside of them. No, really, I do.”

It’s just not worth the effort; and, frankly, I’m tired of lugging these ugly, heavy things around.

Truthfully, I don’t blame people who assume that if you’re Christian you’re anti-LGBT, anti-abortion, anti-real equality, anti-other religions and pretty much anti-anything else that one small but loud subset of Christians find offensive or threatening.

It completely makes sense. It’s why I don’t want to use the word to describe my own beliefs.

I get it.

Who can blame people for thinking Christians are all anti-everything kind of people when members of the U.S. congress like Michele Bachmann present themselves as speaking for all Christians –and via radio waves – accuses gay people of not only threatening the sanctity of “traditional marriage” but claim they are pedophiles who want to “freely prey on little children sexually.”

I get it. I really do.

I don’t want to be that kind of Christian. So, if that’s the only option, I’m opting out. And, I’m not alone. A whole slue of Christians is opting out as well.
Mark Sandlin is an ordained minister in the Presbyterian Church (USA) from the South and a co-founder of The Christian Left.

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Re: I Want My Christianity Back (Without the Ugly Baggage)

You need to spend some more time in the word. You should never be ashamed of your religion, and if you do, there's a problem.

Re: I Want My Christianity Back (Without the Ugly Baggage)

The most important reform pending for Christianity is to recognize the law against homosexuality as ceremonial and not moral. It needs to be cast aside with dietary law.

Re: I Want My Christianity Back (Without the Ugly Baggage)

John 13:35 ESV

By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”



Matthew 24:1-51 ESV

Jesus left the temple and was going away, when his disciples came to point out to him the buildings of the temple. But he answered them, “You see all these, do you not? Truly, I say to you, there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.” As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the close of the age?” And Jesus answered them, “See that no one leads you astray. For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray.

James 1:26-27 ESV

If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless. Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.

Re: I Want My Christianity Back (Without the Ugly Baggage)

Superfly said:

Posting this article from Time.com. It was written by a pastor, and co-founder of The Christian Left. It says so much of what I feel, about how embarrassed I am at the turn Christianity has taken. I just thought it'd be a nice read for anybody who felt the way I do.

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Interesting read SFgirl. Thanks for posting this.

This was my favorite part:

Technically, it wasn’t really taken from me. It’s more like part of it’s been hijacked and held hostage inside all that ugly luggage.
Not surprisingly, the congressperson fear-mongering about gay people coming for your kids and the KKK claiming to be Christian will always make the news. Let’s face it, when the baggage carousel starts rolling around you are going to notice the neon green designer bag with the word “crazy” written across it in pink, but that 26-inch wheeled suitcase in a sensible shade of grey? No one is paying attention to it.

Re: I Want My Christianity Back (Without the Ugly Baggage)

ecofarm said:

The most important reform pending for Christianity is to recognize the law against homosexuality as ceremonial and not moral. It needs to be cast aside with dietary law.

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Talking your own book again are you? Free Sodom, is it?

Re: I Want My Christianity Back (Without the Ugly Baggage)

Prov 3:5-:8

Trust in the Lord with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;
6 in all your ways submit to him,]
and he will make your paths straight.[a]

7 Do not be wise in your own eyes;
fear the Lord and shun evil.
8 This will bring health to your body
and nourishment to your bones.

Re: I Want My Christianity Back (Without the Ugly Baggage)

Bicycle said:

You need to spend some more time in the word. You should never be ashamed of your religion, and if you do, there's a problem.

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I disagree, and I've spent plenty of time in the word, thankyouverymuch.

I don't like what "so called Christians" have turned Christianity into.

The very word "Christian" means "Christ-like" and I don't see much of that as of late. Christ loves all people. God created all people, and all things. Only we are the ones with hubris enough to decide which ones are mistakes.

Re: I Want My Christianity Back (Without the Ugly Baggage)

1 Timothy 4:1 ESV
Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons...

2 Corinthians 11:13-15 ESV

For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.

And this is certainly worth a look:



Jude 1:4 ESV

For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

Re: I Want My Christianity Back (Without the Ugly Baggage)

Mark 13:22 ESV

For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform signs and wonders, to lead astray, if possible, the elect.

Re: I Want My Christianity Back (Without the Ugly Baggage)

joG said:

Talking your own book again are you? Free Sodom, is it?

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The destruction of Sodom was about hospitality, not homosexuality. What the people did was common in war. The point was not that they engaged in homosexuality, the point was they treated visitors as one would treat the enemy in war.

Sure, many people have been brainwashed by the equating of Sodom with buttsex, but that's a rendition of the church and its desire to multiply - not the Bible.

It seems simple to me:

Does the act harm someone else? If yes, it's a moral law. If no, it's a ceremonial law. Like eating pork, homosexuality doesn't harm anyone.

Re: I Want My Christianity Back (Without the Ugly Baggage)

Try being Catholic. But I am never embarrassed about it, in fact I love to look people right in the eye and make it known when the subject comes up. Just to dare a negative response.
Any time you shrink from what you are, what you were raised to be, what you believe. You have become a PC ridden coward.

Re: I Want My Christianity Back (Without the Ugly Baggage)

Bicycle, is it possible to discuss the article, without throwing Scripture around? Most of us here already know the Bible, and it's not the Bible we are discussing. It's the people who stand up and shout how Christian they are, yet are so full of hate that they make those who are Christian, look bad.

Re: I Want My Christianity Back (Without the Ugly Baggage)

CRUE CAB said:

Try being Catholic. But I am never embarrassed about it, in fact I love to look people right in the eye and make it known when the subject comes up. Just to dare a negative response.
Any time you shrink from what you are, what you were raised to be, what you believe. You have become a PC ridden coward.

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I disagree. I still tell people I am a Christian, but I (like you) often expect a negative response, simply because so many "Christians' today are full of hate.

Re: I Want My Christianity Back (Without the Ugly Baggage)

Superfly said:

I disagree. I still tell people I am a Christian, but I (like you) often expect a negative response, simply because so many "Christians' today are full of hate.

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No we are not. We are realists for the most part. Reality and conservatism is being branded as hate by the left. Its not hate.

Re: I Want My Christianity Back (Without the Ugly Baggage)

Superfly said:

I don't like what "so called Christians" have turned Christianity into.

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Christianity hasn't changed. If anything, the intensity of the attitudes to which the OP article alludes have been watered down from their original versions in recent decades.

What you and the OP article are basically arguing for here is that Christianity be transformed in such a manner as to cater more to popular political ideology than to the strongly held beliefs which form the philosophical and doctrinal core of its moral system, and always have. I'm sorry, but whatever such a system would represent after transformation, it wouldn't be "Christianity" anymore. It'd barely even qualify as a legitimate religion.

It'd be a poorly put together "feel good" personal philosophy at best.

The simple fact of the matter that many "modern" Americans (and Westerners in general) don't want to accept here is that the "cafeteria" approach to religion really doesn't work. You can't "pick and choose" what is truth and what is not. It defeats the whole purpose of religion, and the very concept of "truth" itself, in the first place.

The moment organized Christianity alters its beliefs to satisfy popular demand is the moment it will immediately lose all semblance of legitimacy and credibility.

After all, if God can be wrong, then he can't very well be God, now can he?

If he's not God, why should anyone worship him or take his word seriously? :shrug:

Re: I Want My Christianity Back (Without the Ugly Baggage)

Is the negative response bad? Look at Christ, he was given such a negative response the Jewish leadership of his day conspired against him and had him put to death. Part of being a Christian means being willing to accept persecution for believing what is right and true and not conforming to the ways or morals of the world that are contrary to what God says. One problem I see with "liberal Christianity" is that it's ever changing and typically altering what it believes the Bible says not necessarily because it's based on Biblical truth or the guidance of the Holy Spirit, but because they want to twist things to make them more acceptable by the world's standards. It's pretty clear that God states that the act of same sex sexual relations are sinful and not within God's plan for sex. It's a pinnacle of the culture wars today (that Christians will lose because the world is increasingly turning from God, but that's to be expected as we approach the End Times) and many denominations simply voted on changing their doctrine into saying homosexuality isn't sinful and marriages between homosexuals will be recognized, contrary to Biblical teaching. I believe this was done likely to appeal to people, not necessarily because those denominations where guided by the Holy Spirit in accordance with God's word to realize it's not sinful. It's not until recently really with the world accepting it that churches that want to appease the world have decided to change their stance on things like homosexuality. God's truth is not relative and it is unchanging.

Yeah, the mainstream Christian right can be hypocritical and tend to emphasis what they are against instead of what they are for, but the groups that despise, mock and hate them because they don't approve of things like homosexuality do so out of ignorance of truth and because there is a culture war with sides opposing each other. If someone dislikes Christians because the moral code of the Bible says homosexuality is a sin then that's their problem, not the Christians who adhere to God's word. I think an increasing problem is "Christians" trying to remove themselves from the Bible and make some whimsical teaching with some of the "nice stuff" Jesus says about being a good person, giving to others, showing love and those things while ignoring or rejecting things like the reality of hell, judgement at death, heaven and God's commandments regarding sin and holy living because the world doesn't like hearing that (and never really has). Each side can be in the wrong with one shouting on about sin and adhering to God's laws while ignoring the message of love Christ gave while the other does the opposite and only focuses on loving others while rejecting or not mentioning God's commandments or sin. One is legalistic with no love, the other is all "love" with licentiousness in regards to truth.

Re: I Want My Christianity Back (Without the Ugly Baggage)

ecofarm said:

....
It seems simple to me:

Does the act harm someone else? If yes, it's a moral law. If no, it's a ceremonial law. Like eating pork, homosexuality doesn't harm anyone.

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Whether it will in future is hard to say, but in the past homosexuality and extramarital sex did harm a lot of people. HIV would not otherwise have spread as it did and would not have killed over 100 Million people. So you might want to argue your book differently?

Re: I Want My Christianity Back (Without the Ugly Baggage)

joG said:

Whether it will in future is hard to say, but in the past homosexuality and extramarital sex did harm a lot of people. HIV would not otherwise have spread as it did and would not have killed over 100 Million people. So you might want to argue your book differently?

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Nonsense. Lots of acts can have bad results, including drinking water. That does not mean acts (such as drinking water) are bad in and of themselves.

To illustrate the level of nonsense in which you have engaged, let's remember that the vast majority of extramarital sex is the result of heterosexuality - and I don't see you calling for a ban on that.

Driving a car can have bad results... ban that? Owning a gun can have bad results... ban that? Walking can have bad results... ban that?

Re: I Want My Christianity Back (Without the Ugly Baggage)

ecofarm said:

Nonsense. Lots of acts can have bad results, including drinking water. That does not mean acts (such as drinking water) are bad in and of themselves.

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Of course you would say it was nonsense. But the fact remains.

Re: I Want My Christianity Back (Without the Ugly Baggage)

joG said:

Of course you would say it was nonsense. But the fact remains.

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See my edits in the post you quoted. If you cannot see the chasm of reason and logic that you leap across in order to demonize others, even after my explanation, then I shall bid thee a good day.

Re: I Want My Christianity Back (Without the Ugly Baggage)

Superfly said:

Bicycle, is it possible to discuss the article, without throwing Scripture around? Most of us here already know the Bible, and it's not the Bible we are discussing. It's the people who stand up and shout how Christian they are, yet are so full of hate that they make those who are Christian, look bad.

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If you resent scripture in a discussion about how awful Christians are, where you are questioning the "Christianity" of people you don't agree with politically, then that is rather my point. You cannot separate CHRISTIANS from the WORD...and if you do, then chances are, you are the one with the problem...not the so called "full of hate" Christians.

The verse is absolutely relevant to the topic. But *Christians* who aren't interested in what the bible has to say when they are bashing fellow *Christians* will necessarily resent introduction of the word of God into a discussion where the intent is to criticize Christians, and Christianity.

In other words, I understand why you don't want the Word introduced. I'm sorry, in a discussion about Christianity, it's going to be introduced.

Re: I Want My Christianity Back (Without the Ugly Baggage)

ecofarm said:

The destruction of Sodom was about hospitality, not homosexuality. What the people did was common in war. The point was not that they engaged in homosexuality, the point was they treated visitors as one would treat the enemy in war.

Sure, many people have been brainwashed by the equating of Sodom with buttsex, but that's a rendition of the church and its desire to multiply - not the Bible.

It seems simple to me:

Does the act harm someone else? If yes, it's a moral law. If no, it's a ceremonial law. Like eating pork, homosexuality doesn't harm anyone.

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Sorry. Just because something is *widespread* is no indication that it's A-OK with God. God wiped out whole populations for engaging in *widespread* depravity..more than once.

Sodom and Gormorrah is one example.

It wasn't *just* about hospitality. It was definitely about wide-spread depravity and corruption:

2 Peter 2:2-3 ESV

And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep

Re: I Want My Christianity Back (Without the Ugly Baggage)

And this discussion is perfect for this oft-used (usually in a way completely out of context with it's true meaning).....

" Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye. "

^^^^ This was said specifically to believers who like to attack fellow believers.

Re: I Want My Christianity Back (Without the Ugly Baggage)

Bicycle said:

Sorry. Just because something is *widespread* is no indication that it's A-OK with God. God wiped out whole populations for engaging in *widespread* depravity..more than once.

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No one is making such an argument. Spare us the stupid straw-men.

Sodom and Gormorrah is one example.

It wasn't *just* about hospitality. It was definitely about wide-spread depravity and corruption:

2 Peter 2:2-3 ESV

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And among that depravity was the violation of a ceremonial law. Just like the people were failing to offer sacrifices. Just like the people were eating "unclean food", just like the people were not keeping Sabbath.

Homosexuality was just one of many ceremonial laws the people were ignoring.