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Are these people really Christians?

I

it's just me

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I am coming up on my first year as an ordained minister in a continuing Anglican church, and I have noticed that participating on political forums (especially when the topic is religious) I find that my opinions and postings more often than not generate more hatred than anything else. Among the things I often hear are that the laity are the real priests and that I am a Pharisee, that my vocation disqualifies me from offering an opinion on anything Christian because I am too narrow minded, and (my personal favorite) because I look too Catholic I must be a child molester.

The last forum I was on had a troll who, no matter what I posted, would harass me as long as the thread stayed on the board, to the point where the thread would end up being closed, and when I complained about it I was banned.

And there was the usual "You can't possibly be an ordained minister" presumably because "real ministers" agree with everything they say.

What is this? Is it some kind of institutional inferiority complex? Bad forum moderation? Double standard? What?
 
You will have to forgive me if I doubt your sincerity.
 
I don't know what your opinions are so I can't comment on them but I will say this.
Religious forums are run by and for conservatives. When you deviate too far from what they allow, they will "punish" you.
Try explaining that conservatives aren't really Christians when Jesus Christ was/is a liberal and see how far you get.
Try explaining that the "being saved" doctrine is blasphemous and see how far you get.
 
lizzie said:
I have no idea who or what you are.
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But you can doubt my sincerity?

I thought you were joking at first, which is why I answered the way I did. Perhaps not.
 
John S said:
I don't know what your opinions are so I can't comment on them but I will say this.
Religious forums are run by and for conservatives. When you deviate too far from what they allow, they will "punish" you.
Try explaining that conservatives aren't really Christians when Jesus Christ was/is a liberal and see how far you get.
Try explaining that the "being saved" doctrine is blasphemous and see how far you get.
Click to expand...

I just posted something the other day about the "rapture", that should give you some idea. There are a lot of sacred cows from the 1800s, such as dispensationalism and millenarianism. Moreover, there is a widespread belief in "private interpretation" - that is, the Bible means what you say it means, what the Church teaches is irrelevant and probably wrong. Many believe that they are above instruction and that the Holy Spirit tells them the most crackpot ideas you have ever heard - pyramids flying through the air on the last days - that was one of the more memorable ones.
 
it's just me said:
I am coming up on my first year as an ordained minister in a continuing Anglican church, and I have noticed that participating on political forums (especially when the topic is religious) I find that my opinions and postings more often than not generate more hatred than anything else. Among the things I often hear are that the laity are the real priests and that I am a Pharisee, that my vocation disqualifies me from offering an opinion on anything Christian because I am too narrow minded, and (my personal favorite) because I look too Catholic I must be a child molester.

The last forum I was on had a troll who, no matter what I posted, would harass me as long as the thread stayed on the board, to the point where the thread would end up being closed, and when I complained about it I was banned.

And there was the usual "You can't possibly be an ordained minister" presumably because "real ministers" agree with everything they say.

What is this? Is it some kind of institutional inferiority complex? Bad forum moderation? Double standard? What?
Click to expand...

There's an almost militantly, negative attitude towards anyone who quotes biblical sources anymore. I've only recently seen this vehement response, as a new wave of atheistic fervor that has arisen in the past decade. It's downright hostile, nasty and dismissive to the point, where I won't respond to them at all. They're just pure trolling for a fight and asking the same repetitive question, "Where's your proof?"

Hollywood has been like this far longer but I guess their ways have caught up with the mainstream? What doesn't help those who are religious, but respective of others opinions, is the bible thumping reverse attitude of anything quoted from the Christian Judaic Bible, as completely unerring and absolute fact. Nothing wrong, if that's your belief, but in an open forum, it's not appeasing to people who maybe want to discuss certain verses and interpretations with a more scholarly approach.

I remember the old ministers, priests, fathers, reverends, preachers and other assorted clergy and denominations being usually meeker and milder in their discussions about Christianity and religion. They weren't constantly saying, "Have you accepted Christ as your savior and Lord?" People don't like that very much, when you don't do anything but chant a bunch of dogma, with no meaning or thought.

You don't win hearts and minds by doing the very behavior that you say is unsavory and caustic.
 
grip said:
There's an almost militantly, negative attitude towards anyone who quotes biblical sources anymore. I've only recently seen this vehement response, as a new wave of atheistic fervor that has arisen in the past decade. It's downright hostile, nasty and dismissive to the point, where I won't respond to them at all. They're just pure trolling for a fight and asking the same repetitive question, "Where's your proof?"

Hollywood has been like this far longer but I guess their ways have caught up with the mainstream? What doesn't help those who are religious, but respective of others opinions, is the bible thumping reverse attitude of anything quoted from the Christian Judaic Bible, as completely unerring and absolute fact. Nothing wrong, if that's your belief, but in an open forum, it's not appeasing to people who maybe want to discuss certain verses and interpretations with a more scholarly approach.

I remember the old ministers, priests, fathers, reverends, preachers and other assorted clergy and denominations being usually meeker and milder in their discussions about Christianity and religion. They weren't constantly saying, "Have you accepted Christ as your savior and Lord?" People don't like that very much, when you don't do anything but chant a bunch of dogma, with no meaning or thought.

You don't win hearts and minds by doing the very behavior that you say is unsavory and caustic.
Click to expand...

I've had people ask me if I am saved, true story.

If people tell me they are Christian I usually take their word for it unless I know for a fact that they do not subscribe to Christian beliefs. Atheists are another matter, they have gotten more militant and less educated over the past 20 years from what I have seen, and suffer from many misconceptions about the faith - George Carlin's "old man in the sky" and "flying spaghetti monster" theology.
 
it's just me said:
Because after all, I am not really a minister...
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No, because many of us think that people don't get banned from forums for no reason at all. And because many of us don't believe much of what we read from people until they've established a lengthy relationship on the forum itself. And because I'm surprised (as others would be, I think) that you find this incredulous. Finally, because you aren't mature enough to realize there are trolls on the internet, and it's best to avoid them.
 
MaggieD said:
No, because many of us think that people don't get banned from forums for no reason at all. And because many of us don't believe much of what we read from people until they've established a lengthy relationship on the forum itself. And because I'm surprised (as others would be, I think) that you find this incredulous. Finally, because you aren't mature enough to realize there are trolls on the internet, and it's best to avoid them.
Click to expand...

See what I mean?
 
it's just me said:
I've had people ask me if I am saved, true story.

If people tell me they are Christian I usually take their word for it unless I know for a fact that they do not subscribe to Christian beliefs. Atheists are another matter, they have gotten more militant and less educated over the past 20 years from what I have seen, and suffer from many misconceptions about the faith - George Carlin's "old man in the sky" and "flying spaghetti monster" theology.
Click to expand...

If you believe Christ is in all people, then they're all His children and Christians by proxy. So regardless, if they're ignorant of His presence, it doesn't give anyone else free license to judge them.

Yeah, the atheists of old were almost more agnostic in an intelligent manner, saying that some of the bible is probably historically accurate and that there might be a supreme being of some kind, admitting that they didn't have all knowledge of the subject either. I like to debate and discuss the meaning of life and religion in an open minded and philosophical manner, as though there might be a God but without the rigidity of an inflexible religious believer. That's becoming a rarer and rarer individual, where people are either religious kooks or complete atheists, who'll only talk about the subject in order to mock someone.
 
grip said:
If you believe Christ is in all people, then they're all His children and Christians by proxy. So regardless, if they're ignorant of His presence, it doesn't give anyone else free license to judge them.

Yeah, the atheists of old were almost more agnostic in an intelligent manner, saying that some of the bible is probably historically accurate and that there might be a supreme being of some kind, admitting that they didn't have all knowledge of the subject either. I like to debate and discuss the meaning of life and religion in an open minded and philosophical manner, as though there might be a God but without the rigidity of an inflexible religious believer. That's becoming a rarer and rarer individual, where people are either religious kooks or complete atheists, who'll only talk about the subject in order to mock someone.
Click to expand...

I believe all people are created in God's image and therefore are endowed with a certain amount of Grace, which is different from saying they possess "saving Grace". I have run into tons of people who hate homosexuals, who I believe are created in God's image with the Grace I described, and I catch a fair amount of hell for that position. I have said that it is possible for the righteous to enter into God's presence without ever having seen our Bible, just using the knowledge and Grace God has granted them naturally. And I catch hell for that.
 
it's just me said:
I am coming up on my first year as an ordained minister in a continuing Anglican church, and I have noticed that participating on political forums (especially when the topic is religious) I find that my opinions and postings more often than not generate more hatred than anything else. Among the things I often hear are that the laity are the real priests and that I am a Pharisee, that my vocation disqualifies me from offering an opinion on anything Christian because I am too narrow minded, and (my personal favorite) because I look too Catholic I must be a child molester.

The last forum I was on had a troll who, no matter what I posted, would harass me as long as the thread stayed on the board, to the point where the thread would end up being closed, and when I complained about it I was banned.

And there was the usual "You can't possibly be an ordained minister" presumably because "real ministers" agree with everything they say.

What is this? Is it some kind of institutional inferiority complex? Bad forum moderation? Double standard? What?
Click to expand...

If you are atheist, pro abortion and an activist for gay matrimony then you will be fine. ;)
 
it's just me said:
I believe all people are created in God's image and therefore are endowed with a certain amount of Grace, which is different from saying they possess "saving Grace". I have run into tons of people who hate homosexuals, who I believe are created in God's image with the Grace I described, and I catch a fair amount of hell for that position. I have said that it is possible for the righteous to enter into God's presence without ever having seen our Bible, just using the knowledge and Grace God has granted them naturally. And I catch hell for that.
Click to expand...

That's an instance where we differ in opinion. I believe you can't earn your way into God's grace or heaven. None are righteous of their own accord but only thru God's forgiving nature. Some make less errors than others because they're less ignorant, but nobody is better than anyone else.

But the semantics and details of religion aren't near as important to me as love. I care for people and wish them the best, because it feels like the Godly thing to do. I don't try and give them everything or control their lives, I just try and make the world a little better place, and maybe make someone laugh or happy for a moment.

The world doesn't need us to change it, just be fair and compassionate to each other.
 
grip said:
That's an instance where we differ in opinion. I believe you can't earn your way into God's grace or heaven. None are righteous of their own accord but only thru God's forgiving nature. Some make less errors than others because they're less ignorant, but nobody is better than anyone else.

But the semantics and details of religion aren't near as important to me as love. I care for people and wish them the best, because it feels like the Godly thing to do. I don't try and give them everything or control their lives, I just try and make the world a little better place, and maybe make someone laugh or happy for a moment.

The world doesn't need us to change it, just be fair and compassionate to each other.
Click to expand...

No, you don't earn Grace, per se, but sooner or later you have to put wheels on your faith, as James said. If someone is hungry you don't preach to them, you feed them.
 
it's just me said:
I just posted something the other day about the "rapture", that should give you some idea. There are a lot of sacred cows from the 1800s, such as dispensationalism and millenarianism. Moreover, there is a widespread belief in "private interpretation" - that is, the Bible means what you say it means, what the Church teaches is irrelevant and probably wrong. Many believe that they are above instruction and that the Holy Spirit tells them the most crackpot ideas you have ever heard - pyramids flying through the air on the last days - that was one of the more memorable ones.
Click to expand...
`
I'm a non-catholic but went to a Catholic University. I used to argue with the Jesuits, face to face about about religion, while not one of my most brightest moves (I got my views trashed 95% of the time) it was not all for naught. I learned things....that was important to me. Not just about Catholicism but also about Protestantism which prompted more than a few visits to Carthage College (A Lutheran University in Racine WI) where I learned from the Ministers there by arguing.

I learn by argumentation, especially if I'm wrong. I may not agree with any of the Theology but I learned to respect the reasons why people believe in what they do.

It is funny in an ironic sense that you should bring up rapture, dispensationalism and millenarianism as in another forum I am in discussion in regards to how the recent events in the Middle East are supposed to be bringing us closer to the "End Times" which is a concept I just cannot accept however interesting as it may be.

To me at least, the core of any faith is belief without empirical proof. I have no problem with that or those with absolutely no faith....so long as such things do not interfere with my rights.
`
 
it's just me said:
No, you don't earn Grace, per se, but sooner or later you have to put wheels on your faith, as James said. If someone is hungry you don't preach to them, you feed them.
Click to expand...


I'll tell you what I think works for me, if I love myself, then I'll love my life. And to love myself, all I have to do is be forgiving. Not expecting too much perfection from myself, only the ability to learn from my mistakes, because I'm going to make them. That's a kind of faith that comes from within and requires actions.

The best I can do is change myself, then I'll know how to deal with others, IMHO.
 
grip said:
I'll tell you what I think works for me, if I love myself, then I'll love my life. And to love myself, all I have to do is be forgiving. Not expecting too much perfection from myself, only the ability to learn from my mistakes, because I'm going to make them. That's a kind of faith that comes from within and requires actions.

The best I can do is change myself, then I'll know how to deal with others, IMHO.
Click to expand...

You sound like Brother Lawrence.
 
Paxaeon said:
`
I'm a non-catholic but went to a Catholic University. I used to argue with the Jesuits, face to face about about religion, while not one of my most brightest moves (I got my views trashed 95% of the time) it was not all for naught. I learned things....that was important to me. Not just about Catholicism but also about Protestantism which prompted more than a few visits to Carthage College (A Lutheran University in Racine WI) where I learned from the Ministers there by arguing.

I learn by argumentation, especially if I'm wrong. I may not agree with any of the Theology but I learned to respect the reasons why people believe in what they do.

It is funny in an ironic sense that you should bring up rapture, dispensationalism and millenarianism as in another forum I am in discussion in regards to how the recent events in the Middle East are supposed to be bringing us closer to the "End Times" which is a concept I just cannot accept however interesting as it may be.

To me at least, the core of any faith is belief without empirical proof. I have no problem with that or those with absolutely no faith....so long as such things do not interfere with my rights.
`
Click to expand...

Good post, thank you.

I would like to believe in that end times stuff, but the reality is that the world ends for somebody every day. That is the end I am most cognizant of.
 
it's just me said:
Well, allow me to introduce you:

Brother Lawrence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Brother Lawrence is one of my all time favorite spiritual advisors, his book is available in the public domain:

Practice of the Presence of God: The Best Rule of Holy Life - Christian Classics Ethereal Library
Click to expand...


I appreciate the compliment. :)

He see's God as his life source, which is very central to my own belief.

I had to come up with a simpler personal philosophy, because the bible can get a little confusing in it's entirety.
 
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