Spotlight on Mormon beliefs. (LDS)

Tosca, you don't even take the time to understand the LDS before you ignorantly go on your rants. There is no use debating with you.

laska said:

Tosca, you don't even take the time to understand the LDS before you ignorantly go on your rants. There is no use debating with you.

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You're not addressing the issue. I've asked you to lead me to the particular page of your refutation - that means, I'm going to read.

You, however refuse to provide your own source. You want me to search for it in the whole Mormon website!
To read all about Mormonism!

I feel kinda like a consumer being given a coupon just to get me inside the grocery store! :lol:

Sorry.....if you want to defend your doctrine, provide your specific source. Don't lead me on a merry chase.

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Paxaeon said:

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Why don't you post what you really mean:



Your photos are anti-Mormon material with errors and meant to sensationalize, but you wouldn't know that because you know little about Mormons except what you get off of attack sites. You are classless.

Paxaeon said:

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It is not called the Mormon church, it is called The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. What is that a Nazi falcon? Classy. Joseph Smith only prayed to Heavenly Father not gods. Joseph Smith history in his own words:
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/js-h/1?lang=eng

Paxaeon said:

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The last part is not LDS doctrine and is sensationalism meant to make the religion look bad. The verses quoted:
"21 And now, verily I say unto you, I was in the beginning with the Father, and am the Firstborn;" D&C 93:21

This is the quote from Gospel Principles:
The story of the birth and life of the Savior is found in the New Testament in the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. From their accounts we learn that Jesus was born of a virgin named Mary. She was engaged to marry Joseph when an angel of the Lord appeared to her. The angel told her that she was to be the mother of the Son of God. She asked him how this was possible (see Luke 1:34). He told her, “The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God” (Luke 1:35). Thus, God the Father became the literal Father of Jesus Christ.

Jesus is the only person on earth to be born of a mortal mother and an immortal Father. That is why He is called the Only Begotten Son. He inherited divine powers from His Father. From His mother He inherited mortality and was subject to hunger, thirst, fatigue, pain, and death. No one could take the Savior’s life from Him unless He willed it. He had power to lay it down and power to take up His body again after dying. (See John 10:17–18.)

Paxaeon said:

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The LDS worship one God, Heavenly Father. The human family as the offspring of God are gods. Jesus in the NT quoted the Old Testament Psalms when the religious leaders were about to stone Him for being a man and calling Himself a god or the Son of God: "Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High".

It is hard to read the NT and not see the concept.
Mormon Answers (LDS FAQ): The Divine Potential of Human Beings - or Do Mormons Believe They Can Become Gods?

What about the many prophecies made by Joseph Smith that didn't come true?

He also made several MISSOURI prophecies. Here are some of them:


March 7, 1831. D&C 45:64-74. Saints are to gather riches and purchase an inheritance to be called New Jerusalem, also called Zion, a place of refuge and safety, where the wicked will not come, and against which the wicked will refuse to battle. The righteous will come from all nations and sing songs of everlasting joy. The wicked will fear and stand afar off and tremble, and "all nations shall be afraid."

July 1831. D&C 57:1-3 Missouri is named as the land consecrated for the gathering of the Saints and the place for the City of Zion and the building of a temple at Independence. It will be purchased by the saints "for an ever-lasting inheritance."

August 13, 1831. D&C 62:1, 6. The faithful will be preserved and rejoice in Missouri. "I, the Lord, promise the faithful and cannot lie."

Sept 22-23, 1832. D&C 84:2-5, 31 Zion will be built with its temple at Independence, "in this generation". This generation shall not all pass away until the temple will be built upon the spot. Orson Pratt in 1870 reiterated the prophecy (JD 9:71, 10:344, 13:362) and insisted that it will come to pass within the generation living in 1832.

Jan 4, 1833. HC 1:315-316. Joseph Smith says "by the authority of Jesus Christ" that "not many years shall pass away" before the wicked "of this generation" will be swept from off the face of the land and the Lost Ten Tribes will be gathered to Missouri, and that "there are those now living upon the earth whose eyes shall not be closed in death until they see all these things, which I have spoken, fulfilled."

Aug 2, 1833. D&C 97:18-20. Promise that if the saints are obedient the City of Zion (in Missouri) will prosper and become glorious, great and terrible, honored by the nations of the earth. Zion cannot fall or be moved out of its place.

FULFILLMENT: Mormons were driven out of Independence and from all of their settlements in Missouri in 1839. The temple lot is not owned by the Mormon church. No one living in the generation when the prophecy was made is still alive. The wicked of that generation were no more "swept from off the face of the land" than were their contemporary Mormons. The Lost Ten Tribes have not been gathered to Missouri. Nothing in all these prophecies has been fulfilled, even though the majority of the saints steadfastly followed Joseph Smith and were faithful.




Oct 12, 1833. D&C 100:13-15 Zion (Missouri) will be chastened "for a little season" but then "redeemed."

Dec 10, 1833. HC 1:455. Joseph Smith tells the saints that they should retain their lands in Missouri and seek legal redress against their enemies. If they should not obtain it, God will avenge them with "ten thousand of his Saints" and all their adversaries would be destroyed.

FULFILLMENT: The Mormons lost all their lands in Missouri; they did seek legal redress but were unsuccessful; their enemies were not destroyed; their wrongs were not avenged; the Mormons were driven out of Missouri.



Dec 16, 1833. D&C 101:17-20 Zion (Missouri) shall not be moved out of its place; the Saints will receive their inheritance there, and there is no other place than Missouri appointed by God for the gathering of the Saints.

Feb 24, 1834. D&C 103:5-7 If the Saints will hearken to the counsel of the Lord, "they shall, for I have decreed it, begin to prevail against mine enemies from this very hour... and... they shall never cease to prevail until the kingdoms of the world are subdued under my feet, and the earth is given unto the saints, to possess it forever and ever." Verse 15: "The redemption of Zion must needs come by power;" and God will raise up a man like Moses, namely Joseph Smith, who will enable them to "possess the goodly land" (v. 20). Joseph Smith is to organize Zion's Camp (a Mormon army) and relieve the distress of the Saints in Missouri. Verse 36: "All victory and glory is brought to pass unto you through your diligence, faithfulness and prayers of faith."

Spring 1834. Joseph Smith prophesies to the members of Zion's Camp that "within three years they should march to Jackson County and there should not be a dog to open his mouth against them." Reed Peck Manuscript p. 3 [cited in Tanner, The Mormon Kingdom 1:4]

FULFILLMENT: Zion's Camp was organized but utterly failed and it disbanded in July. Cholera decimated them and the campaign did not restore the saints to their homes. They did not return as Zion's Camp. The Mormons continued to encounter fierce opposition. The Mormons never prevailed against their enemies. (Milton R. Hunter, The Gospel through the Ages, p. 282, "Reed Peck Manuscript" p. 3; HC 3:xxxix [cited in Tanner, The Mormon Kingdom 1:4].




June 22, 1834. D&C 105:13-15. The Lord says regarding Missouri: "I will fight your battles... the destroyer I have sent forth to destroy and lay waste mine enemies; and not many years hence they shall not be left to pollute mine heritage, and to blaspheme my name upon the lands which I have consecrated for the gathering together of my saints."

FULFILLMENT: The Missouri opponents of the Mormons were not destroyed, but have remained in Missouri (and "polluted" it?) The Mormons were driven out of Missouri within five years.



Aug 16, 1834. HC 2:145. Joseph Smith says that the Spirit of the Lord tells him that the Saints should be ready to move into Jackson County, Missouri, on September 11, 1836, "which is the appointed time for the redemption of Zion."

FULFILLMENT: If Zion was redeemed in 1836, it was unredeemed in 1839, when the Mormons abandoned Missouri.

Joseph Smith as a Prophet



I mean....shouldn't those prophecies serve as a wake-up call? Just read the fulfillment for those prophecies - look who got whacked instead!

If I were to interpret those fulfillments, it's more like God was trying to expose Joseph Smith instead, as being a false prophet.

Smith was a broke huckster who made a religion and got the gold. South Park tells his story best, "dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb".

tosca1 said:

What about the many prophecies made by Joseph Smith that didn't come true?

He also made several MISSOURI prophecies. Here are some of them:

Joseph Smith as a Prophet



I mean....shouldn't those prophecies serve as a wake-up call? Just read the fulfillment for those prophecies - look who got whacked instead!

If I were to interpret those fulfillments, it's more like God was trying to expose Joseph Smith instead, as being a false prophet.

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Still on his prophecies.


I wish to acknowledge that Joseph Smith DID write one true prophecy as follows:


"For although a man may have many revelations and have power to do many mighty works, yet if he boasts in his own strength and sets at naught the counself of God, and follows after the dictates of his own will and carnal desires, he must fall and incur the vengeance of a just God upon him," D & C 3:4

Joseph Smith DID boast in his own strength - that he had done more than even Jesus Christ (D.H.C. 6:408-409).

This boast was made in May of 1844.

In June of 1844 Joseph Smith DID fall (dead), not as a martyr, but in a gun battle in which he killed two and wounded one (Comprehensive History of the Church, pp. 284-285). He died not as a sheep going to the slaughter, but as a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Joseph Smith Prophecies

tosca1 said:

Still on his prophecies.


I wish to acknowledge that Joseph Smith DID write one true prophecy as follows:


"For although a man may have many revelations and have power to do many mighty works, yet if he boasts in his own strength and sets at naught the counself of God, and follows after the dictates of his own will and carnal desires, he must fall and incur the vengeance of a just God upon him," D & C 3:4

Joseph Smith DID boast in his own strength - that he had done more than even Jesus Christ (D.H.C. 6:408-409).

This boast was made in May of 1844.

In June of 1844 Joseph Smith DID fall (dead), not as a martyr, but in a gun battle in which he killed two and wounded one (Comprehensive History of the Church, pp. 284-285). He died not as a sheep going to the slaughter, but as a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Joseph Smith Prophecies

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You should know better than to quote anti-Mormon sites. Joseph Smith's prophecy record is amazing, and what you quote is just a hack job by dishonest people. I don't debate anti-Mormons. I'll leave you a link which you likely will ignore and no way you will give JS any credit no matter the evidence for any prophecy, because you are an anti-Mormon. You are biased. You are not a honest debater. You are losing the battle and don't even know it. I won't look into this thread again. Post a bunch of bs if you want. There certainly is no shortage of that on the net. You should take the beam out of your own eye and analyze your own religion and ministers. I'll take the LDS ANY day.

Here you go:

LDS FAQ: Fulfilled Prophecies of Joseph Smith, the Mormon Prophet

Tosca



Mormons are not Christians we are the real Christians. Joseph Smith is a false prophet and he and his brother deserved to be killed by a band of us real Christians with our faces painted black. Lying about the LDS to make them look bad is OK, they are of the devil.


I will heal you just drop some money in the collection plate

One day you will see that the brother of Joseph Smith who was killed with him, Hyrum, does not have a name that is just coincidence. It means in Hebrew "My brother is exalted".


I apologize for dipping down to their levels. At least I don't have to lie when I speak of many of their religious leaders. Anyway go ahead and post your lies. You won't have to worry about the Mormon showing your bs.

laska said:

Here you go:

LDS FAQ: Fulfilled Prophecies of Joseph Smith, the Mormon Prophet

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Precisely NONE of those are "prophecies". Guess what, the sky will be blue tomorrow or I'm not the king of kings is not a prophecy.

tosca1 said:

Still on his prophecies.


I wish to acknowledge that Joseph Smith DID write one true prophecy as follows:


"For although a man may have many revelations and have power to do many mighty works, yet if he boasts in his own strength and sets at naught the counself of God, and follows after the dictates of his own will and carnal desires, he must fall and incur the vengeance of a just God upon him," D & C 3:4

Joseph Smith DID boast in his own strength - that he had done more than even Jesus Christ (D.H.C. 6:408-409).

This boast was made in May of 1844.

Joseph Smith Prophecies

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There is so much nonsense that you have posted, that I cannot even begin to think of trying to respond to all of it.

I'll address just the contents of this one posting of yours.

Like nearly other such posting, I very much suspect that you've just been blindly copying material from anti-LDS sites, without really reading it, without understanding it, without checking any of the claimed sources to see if they exist, how credible they are, or whether they are being quoted accurately.

In this instance, you cited a source as “D.H.C. 6:408-409”. Obviously, “D.H.C.” is an acronym, and not the full title of that source. Can you tell me the full title of this source? Can you quote anything directly from the pages cited? I will tell you that I know of this source, am in possession of it, and have it open right now next to me, to the pages that are cited. I will say that for one thing, this is a source of very limited credibility where such details are concerned, and for another, it is here not being accurately quoted at all.

The claim that Joseph Smith boasted “…that he had done more than even Jesus Christ” is not found on the cited pages in the cited volume, though it would not surprise me to find a similar claim elsewhere in this source. It is a distortion of a statement that was made about Joseph Smith after his death, by John Taylor; the true form of this statement being recorded in Doctrine & Covenants 135:3:


This is a statement that was made about Joseph Smith, after his death, by someone else. Note that in the original form of this statement, Joseph Smith is not claimed to have done more than Jesus; he is claimed to have done more than anyone except Jesus.


After you either identify the source referenced as “D.H.C.”, or else admit that you do not know what this source is; I will tell you how it is that a similar statement might be found in this source, attributed to Joseph Smith.

tosca1 said:

In June of 1844 Joseph Smith DID fall (dead), not as a martyr, but in a gun battle in which he killed two and wounded one (Comprehensive History of the Church, pp. 284-285). He died not as a sheep going to the slaughter, but as a wolf in sheep's clothing.

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Joseph Smith, his brother Hyrum, and two other gentlemen were in prison, on a trumped-up charge (something that was frequently done to Joseph Smith and his associates), when the jail was attacked by a mob. Both Joseph and Hyrum were killed in this attack. John Taylor (the true author of the quote often attributed to Joseph Smith in order to make him out to be a braggart) was severely injured in this attack. A fourth person, Willard Richards, came out with only minor injuries. It is true that Joseph did not simply give up without a fight; and by putting up what fight he did, he may have saved the lives of Mr.Taylor and Mr. Richards.

The point is, he was killed for what he believed, and what he taught. Most people would accept this as the definition of a martyr. That he fought to defend himself, and his associates, does not diminish this in the least.

Now, let me ask you something. History is clear, that from the beginning, Joseph Smith, his family, his associates, his followers, were subject to all manner of abuse. They were driven from their homes, and ultimately driven entirely out of what constituted the United States at the time. They were often arrested and prosecuted under false, trumped-up charges. Many of them were murdered, and their murderers were not prosecuted under the law. All of this for no other reason than that they held to a religion that others found disagreeable, and in a nation where religious freedom was one of the very most essential rights affirmed by our Constitution. Is there anything that you can say, in defense of the way the early Mormons were treated?

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Paxaeon said:

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Breaking my rules about contributing in this thread. Maybe I'll be stronger tomorrow.

I take it doesn't bother you that your previous posts contained errors and sensationalism. No apologies?

In 1843 when the prophecy was given, Joseph Smith was speaking to the Whig governed U.S. government. They rejected the pleas for help by the LDS and by 1850s the Whig run government was broken up and the party basically became defunct from U.S. history. There is no mention of violence in the prophecy. You failed to mention the most impressive part of the prophecy in regards to judge Stephen Douglas. No surprise, anti-Mormons always are dishonest and distort to accomplish their agenda. If you will go to the link below and then scroll down to "The Stephen A. Douglas Prophecy" it will give a full account of the prophecy that you quoted.

[video]http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_prophecies.shtml#douglas[/video]

Another possibility about the overthrown government aspect of the prophecy is that it was conditional. The U.S. "did redress the Latter Day Saints to some extent for wrongs committed against them. The United States inviting the Saints to volunteer five hundred men to help in the 1846 war with Mexico might be considered partial redress because it provided desperately needed funds for the Latter-day Saints to finance the pioneer trek to Utah. President Polk at this time also promised Latter-day Saints safety as they traveled through Indian lands to the west. When the personal papers of James K. Polk, the U.S. president who asked Latter-day Saints to form a Mormon Battalion, were recently opened, it was found that he considered his action to help the Latter-day Saints. The granting of territorial status to the Mormons might also be considered a partial redress for wrongs." "In 1863 following the Lawrence Massacre in Kansas, Union General Thomas Ewing, Jr. accused farmers in rural Missouri of either instigating the attack or supporting it. He issued General Order No. 11 which forced the evacuation of all residents of rural areas of the four counties (Jackson, Cass, Bates and Vernon) south of the Missouri River on the Kansas border to leave their property, which was then burned. The order applied to farmers regardless of loyalty, although those who could prove their loyalty to the Union could stay in designated towns and those who could not were exiled entirely.[4]
LDS readers will recognize that Jackson county was notorious for its treatment of the Saints, and it was among those counties from which inhabitants were evacuated and a "scorched earth" policy implemented. The commanding general ordered his men not to engage in looting or other depredations, but he proved unable to effectively control his soldiers, who were mostly Kansans eager to exact any revenge possible upon their Missouri neighbors. Animals and other property were stolen or destroyed, and houses, barns and outbuildings burnt to the ground. The area affected quickly became a devastated "no-man's-land", with only charred chimneys and burnt stubble remaining where once-fertile farms had stood."


During the Civil War the U.S. government as it was organized, was also broken up when the Southern states seceded. Maybe with the Confederate armies just across the Potomac, it could have been a lot worse if mot for the above redresses. Lot of possibilities, even that this aspect of the prophecy is still to be fulfilled in the future.

laska said:

You should know better than to quote anti-Mormon sites. Joseph Smith's prophecy record is amazing, and what you quote is just a hack job by dishonest people. I don't debate anti-Mormons. I'll leave you a link which you likely will ignore and no way you will give JS any credit no matter the evidence for any prophecy, because you are an anti-Mormon. You are biased. You are not a honest debater. You are losing the battle and don't even know it. I won't look into this thread again. Post a bunch of bs if you want. There certainly is no shortage of that on the net. You should take the beam out of your own eye and analyze your own religion and ministers. I'll take the LDS ANY day.

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Let's assume that the site is anti-Mormon....do you refute that Joseph Smith boasted about having done more than Jesus, and that he died a few months later?

Do you refute any of the Missouri prophecies having been made by Joseph Smith, and the fulfillments that resulted?

I'm providing arguments against your doctrine......if you think I'm posting inaccurate arguments, you should refute them. I don't know much about your religion other than what you've already shown me by your responses to my initial questions.

Why should I go to your website and read indoctrination materials? I'm not here to be indoctrinated!
I'm here to show you that you are being misled. So, if you disagree with my sources, refute them.
Don't tell me to go to LDS website to read and do my own "search and find!"

Bob Blaylock said:

There is so much nonsense that you have posted, that I cannot even begin to think of trying to respond to all of it.

I'll address just the contents of this one posting of yours.

Like nearly other such posting, I very much suspect that you've just been blindly copying material from anti-LDS sites, without really reading it, without understanding it, without checking any of the claimed sources to see if they exist, how credible they are, or whether they are being quoted accurately.

In this instance, you cited a source as “D.H.C. 6:408-409”. Obviously, “D.H.C.” is an acronym, and not the full title of that source. Can you tell me the full title of this source? Can you quote anything directly from the pages cited? I will tell you that I know of this source, am in possession of it, and have it open right now next to me, to the pages that are cited. I will say that for one thing, this is a source of very limited credibility where such details are concerned, and for another, it is here not being accurately quoted at all.

The claim that Joseph Smith boasted “…that he had done more than even Jesus Christ” is not found on the cited pages in the cited volume, though it would not surprise me to find a similar claim elsewhere in this source. It is a distortion of a statement that was made about Joseph Smith after his death, by John Taylor; the true form of this statement being recorded in Doctrine & Covenants 135:3:

Joseph Smith, the Prophet and Seer of the Lord, has done more, save Jesus only, for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it. …​

This is a statement that was made about Joseph Smith, after his death, by someone else. Note that in the original form of this statement, Joseph Smith is not claimed to have done more than Jesus; he is claimed to have done more than anyone except Jesus.


After you either identify the source referenced as “D.H.C.”, or else admit that you do not know what this source is; I will tell you how it is that a similar statement might be found in this source, attributed to Joseph Smith.

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To be fair, I did a good search to know what D.H.C. stands for. That acronym may be or may not be accurate....but a quote from another source speaks of the boast.



History of the Church, Vol. 6, pp. 408-409


Address of the Prophet--His Testimony Against the Dissenters at Nauvoo.


President Joseph Smith read the 11th Chap. II Corinthians. My object is to let you know that I am right here on the spot where I intend to stay. I, like Paul, have been in perils, and oftener than anyone in this generation. As Paul boasted, I have suffered more than Paul did. I should be like a fish out of water, if I were out of persecutions. Perhaps my brethren think it requires all this to keep me humble. The Lord has constituted me so curiously that I glory in persecution. I am not nearly so humble as if I were not persecuted. If oppression will make a wise man mad, much more a fool. If they want a beardless boy to whip all the world, I will get on the top of a mountain and crow like a rooster: I shall always beat them. When facts are proved, truth and innocence will prevail at last. My enemies are no philosophers: they think that when they have my spoke under, they will keep me down; but for the fools, I will hold on and fly over them.

God is in the still small voice. In all these affidavits, indictments, it is all of the devil--all corruption. Come on! ye prosecutors! ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! for I will come out on the top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days

page 409

of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet.


Joseph Smith boasted he did more than Jesus to keep a church together.|Boasting of Joseph Smith | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

Bob Blaylock said:

In this instance, you cited a source as “D.H.C. 6:408-409”. Obviously, “D.H.C.” is an acronym, and not the full title of that source.

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Found it!

D.H.C. stands for Documentary History of the Church or DHC.


History of the Church (cited as HC) (originally entitled History of Joseph Smith; first published under the title History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints; nicknamed Documentary History of the Church or DHC) is a semi-official history of the early Latter Day Saint movement during the lifetime of founder Joseph Smith, Jr. It is largely composed of Smith's writings and interpolations and editorial comments by Smith's secretaries, scribes, and after Smith's death, historians of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church). The history was written between 1839 and 1856 (Jessee 1976). Part of it was published in Times and Seasons and other church periodicals. It was later published in its entirety with extensive annotations and edits by B. H. Roberts as part of a seven-volume series beginning in 1902 as History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

History of Joseph Smith was initially published as an official publication of the LDS Church. Although Roberts's History of the Church has never been granted "official history" status, it nonetheless is widely used in the church and is often cited in the sermons and magazine articles written by general authorities and other church leaders.

In 1851, extracts from what would become History of Joseph Smith were published in a church publication entitled Pearl of Great Price.[citation needed] This book was canonized by the LDS Church on October 10, 1880. The portion of History of Joseph Smith that was canonized consists of Smith's recitation of events between his birth in 1805 and May 1829 and is officially entitled Joseph Smith—History.

Although History of the Church is no longer an official publication, it is the most-cited source in two histories of the church which are official publications of the LDS Church : Our Heritage: A Brief History of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and Church History in the Fulness of Times.


History of the Church (Joseph Smith) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock

It is light, intelligence, the power of God that make the wicked tremble and wish ‘Mormonism’ out of the way. If it were a false doctrine or a false theory, the Devil would not endeavor to disturb it, wicked men would not fear it, Heaven would not smile upon it, nor give a revelation to any man or woman to believe it, and we should have poor success; and Heaven forbid that we should have success or gain influence upon any other principle than the revelations of Jesus Christ.” — Brigham Young

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Coincidentally (?)......in my search, I've stumbled on quotes made by Brigham Young about Joseph Smith - which practically imply that Joseph Smith has more authority than Jesus.

He won a glorious victory over Satan! :shock: As far as we know, Christ had won over Satan at the Crucifixion.

So, LDS has taken that credit from Jesus....and given it to Joseph Smith.


No one can enter Heaven without the consent of Joseph Smith! He reigns as a supreme being!


From Brigham Young:


Joseph Smith holds the keys of this last dispensation, and is now engaged behind the vail in the great work of the last days. I can tell our beloved brother Christians who have slain the Prophets and butchered and otherwise caused the death of thousands of Latter-day Saints, the priests who have thanked God in their prayers and thanksgiving from the pulpit that we have been plundered, driven, and slain, and the deacons under the pulpit, and their brethren and sisters in their closets, who have thanked God, thinking that the Latter-day Saints were wasted away, something that no doubt will mortify them - something that, to say the least, is a matter of deep regret to them -

namely, that no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith.

From the day that the Priesthood was taken from the earth to the winding-up scene of all things,
every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are - I with you and you with me.
I cannot go there without his consent.
He holds the keys of that kingdom for the last dispensation - the keys to rule in the spirit-world; and he rules there triumphantly, for he gained full power and a glorious victory over the power of Satan while he was yet in the flesh, and was a martyr to his religion and to the name of Christ, which gives him a most perfect victory in the spirit-world. He reigns there as supreme a being in his sphere, capacity, and calling, as God does in heaven.
Many will exclaim - "Oh, that is very disagreeable! It is preposterous! We cannot bear the thought!" But it is true.

Journal of Discourses 7:289 (Oct 9, 1859)

laska said:

The last part is not LDS doctrine and is sensationalism meant to make the religion look bad. The verses quoted:
"21 And now, verily I say unto you, I was in the beginning with the Father, and am the Firstborn;" D&C 93:21

This is the quote from Gospel Principles:
The story of the birth and life of the Savior is found in the New Testament in the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. From their accounts we learn that Jesus was born of a virgin named Mary. She was engaged to marry Joseph when an angel of the Lord appeared to her. The angel told her that she was to be the mother of the Son of God. She asked him how this was possible (see Luke 1:34). He told her, “The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God” (Luke 1:35). Thus, God the Father became the literal Father of Jesus Christ.

Jesus is the only person on earth to be born of a mortal mother and an immortal Father. That is why He is called the Only Begotten Son. He inherited divine powers from His Father. From His mother He inherited mortality and was subject to hunger, thirst, fatigue, pain, and death. No one could take the Savior’s life from Him unless He willed it. He had power to lay it down and power to take up His body again after dying. (See John 10:17–18.)

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This is not entirely correct. Christ had always existed before hand. this is biblically established in John 1:1 and other verses.
Christ willfully gave up being God the Son while on earth to become the Son of Man. He was conceived by the Holy Spirit not God the Father.

No it means that Christ was not born of a man which means he was born and entered this world perfect.

no one else enters the world perfectly. even babies are born into sin whether they know it or not. they are not deemed perfect. there is thought that since a baby really doesn't know the difference between right and wrong that there is an exception. that the age of accountbility starts when someone recognizes right and wrong.

IE my 1 year old knows the difference between right and wrong.