Christianity a mystery religion?

Maenad said:

There is a book called 'the book of Judas' which seemingly tries to rehabilitate Judas and says he was not betraying Jesus, but trying to save Him. LOL. However, that book also says that at the last supper, Jesus pulled Judas aside and told him the 'secrets of the universe.' Now that Judas knew the secrets of the universe, what use would he have for Jesus. It was, IMO, the perfect motive for murder. But something happened. It didn't work out so well for Judas as he never practiced any of those secrets, rather he suicided. ?

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Well, I don't go for the idea that he was trying to "save him", but to be honest, I've always been a bit conflicted about the Judas issue, because in order for the whole betrayal, death, resurrection thing to have occurred, it was almost like some type of predestined action led up to that particular event. Did Jesus himself know what was coming? Did he have precognitive ability or vision prior to things happening? This all gets into some pretty complicated and strange ideas and concepts, which none of us can really have any actual knowledge of. Personally, I tend to suspect that Jesus was much more than the traditional images present him to be.

Maenad said:

There are others who know that Christ was an Essene....

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I've never seen or heard of any evidence that Jesus was in direct contact with the Essenes. The Essene community had minimal contact with the outside world, by choice; Jesus was a wandering preacher/prophet. He almost certainly picked up on similar ideas circulating in the culture (e.g. treating the ouster of the Romans and/or reformation of the Temple as an eschatological event), but there's no indication that he directly cited their texts, encountered them, or traveled to their community.

Christ was teaching mysteries every day. He prefaced many of his teachings with, 'I show you a mystery' and said only those with an ear would hear.

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Sort of. The Gospel of Thomas is full of injunctions translated as "Anyone here with two ears had better listen!" (It also has a few instances of taking individual disciples aside for private discussions.)

The groups we now call "Gnostic Christians" held a variety of beliefs about mysteries, which they attributed to Jesus. Whether any of those beliefs actually did originate with the teachings of Jesus is not clear, and probably never will be.

Of course, one starts getting into "mysteries," there is almost no end to what one could claim to find in both canon and non-canonical works.

In the ancient mystery religion, fire was important....

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I have to concur with others that there were almost certainly more important components of Jesus' life and teachings than fire: Jewish law, the Temple, the Roman occupation, etc

Lamps were also a fairly common item until replaced by modern conveniences. I personally would not believe that a lamp stayed lit for 1500 years, but c'est la guerre, non?

lizzie said:

Well, I don't go for the idea that he was trying to "save him", but to be honest, I've always been a bit conflicted about the Judas issue, because in order for the whole betrayal, death, resurrection thing to have occurred, it was almost like some type of predestined action led up to that particular event. Did Jesus himself know what was coming? Did he have precognitive ability or vision prior to things happening? This all gets into some pretty complicated and strange ideas and concepts, which none of us can really have any actual knowledge of. Personally, I tend to suspect that Jesus was much more than the traditional images present him to be.

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Yes, he did. In the upper room he told his disciples that one of them would betray him:

John 13:21 KJV

21 When Jesus had thus said, he was troubled in spirit, and testified, and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me.

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Matthew 26 King James Version (KJV)

26 And it came to pass, when Jesus had finished all these sayings, he said unto his disciples,

2 Ye know that after two days is the feast of the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified.

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Also in the garden of Gesthemane, he prayed that he would be spared

Luke 22:39-44King James Version (KJV)

39 And he came out, and went, as he was wont, to the mount of Olives; and his disciples also followed him.

40 And when he was at the place, he said unto them, Pray that ye enter not into temptation.

41 And he was withdrawn from them about a stone's cast, and kneeled down, and prayed,

42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

43 And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.

44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

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Another story of Him in Gethsemane indicating he knew he would be betrayed and would die. He expressed his frustration with his disciples because they could not be bothered to watch and pray with him for an hour. They were completely oblivious, it would seem. But then, doesn't that describe a lot of people in this day and age, oblivious to the deeper mysteries of life in general and the Bible in particular.

36 Then cometh Jesus with them unto a place called Gethsemane, and saith unto the disciples, Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder.

37 And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be sorrowful and very heavy.

38 Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.

39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

40 And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour?

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And I agree that He was far more than the Jesus we know today. I read something recently about how many of his mystical teachings were lost. It would seem that those who were translating the ancient books did not understand the mystical concepts so they changed what was written to make it more consistent with their own understanding. IMO, this is why we ALL need to be seekers.

Visbek said:

I've never seen or heard of any evidence that Jesus was in direct contact with the Essenes. The Essene community had minimal contact with the outside world, by choice; Jesus was a wandering preacher/prophet. He almost certainly picked up on similar ideas circulating in the culture (e.g. treating the ouster of the Romans and/or reformation of the Temple as an eschatological event), but there's no indication that he directly cited their texts, encountered them, or traveled to their community.



Sort of. The Gospel of Thomas is full of injunctions translated as "Anyone here with two ears had better listen!" (It also has a few instances of taking individual disciples aside for private discussions.)

The groups we now call "Gnostic Christians" held a variety of beliefs about mysteries, which they attributed to Jesus. Whether any of those beliefs actually did originate with the teachings of Jesus is not clear, and probably never will be.

Of course, one starts getting into "mysteries," there is almost no end to what one could claim to find in both canon and non-canonical works.



I have to concur with others that there were almost certainly more important components of Jesus' life and teachings than fire: Jewish law, the Temple, the Roman occupation, etc

Lamps were also a fairly common item until replaced by modern conveniences. I personally would not believe that a lamp stayed lit for 1500 years, but c'est la guerre, non?

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But then most of His life is not chronicled anywhere. He was MIA for most of his life? Where, then, do you suppose He was during those years? And one but has to look at the teachings of His that we have left to see WHAT he was actually teaching. But this thread is not whether Jesus was an Essene or not. So drop it, and get back on topic. Right now we are discussing fire as it relates to antiquity in general and Christianity in specific. Have you nothing to add?

So you do not believe a lamp can stay lit for 1500 years. So, I guess the sun will go out at any moment. That particular 'lamp' has been lit far longer than 1500 years. And it is the energy of the sun our scientists of this day seek to be able to duplicate. Given that we cannot even explain how the megalithic structures of the ancient world were built, is it really ours to say that the ancients did not know how to create a lamp that could extract what it needed to burn from the air?

More later. Sorry to have to be so otherwise occupied today.

According to Charles W. Heckethorn in his book Secret Societies of All Ages he proffers that there are two races of humans, the race that is a descendant of Adam and a nobler race in whom burns the 'fire of Samuel' one of the Elohim. Being flame born sons of Samuel, the 'regent of fire' the people of this race are fired with ambition, the builders of cities, the raisers of monuments, the conquerors of worlds, the pioneers, the workers in metals, true sons of the eternal flame. Earth to them is a burden. Jehovah does not answer their prayers because they are sons of another star. Their nature is aspiration, they never rest and they always rise again from the ashes of failure. This difference in humans is visible every day. Some are sons of Water - the keepers of flocks. Others are the sons of Fire - the builders of cities. But the sons of Water and the sons of Fire coexist.

So, harking back a couple of posts........why did Judas kill himself. The Bible legend tells us it was due to guilt he remorse for betraying Jesus. And he tried to give the silver back to the Romans but they would not take it back, telling him the problem was his, not theirs. If, as the book of Judas asserts, Jesus pulled Judas aside and gave him the secrets of the universe, why did he not live to use those secrets, even to take over the world? Could it be that the knowledge was too great for him to bear? It is clear that the Maya possessed advanced knowledge of astronomy and building, but the Maya abandoned their cities. Why? Some postulate that the Maya believed their modern technology was more harmful than helpful to them and to the earth. Isn't modern science also concerned with the impact of our use of the secrets of the universe we have discovered and are now using will be more harmful than helpful? Were the 'secrets of the universe' too much to bear?

The person who put me onto the path of the seeker said to me that it would be a lonely road. He said the greatest fear most people have is their own imagination. After all these years, I can only agree with him.

Maenad said:

If, as the book of Judas asserts, Jesus pulled Judas aside and gave him the secrets of the universe, why did he not live to use those secrets, even to take over the world? Could it be that the knowledge was too great for him to bear?

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Well, I am pretty inclined toward a belief in reincarnation, so a single event in a specific lifetime is significant only in temporary terms, because I believe the soul moves forward overall, and that for the most part, the whole of humanity is in a process of evolution, physically and spiritually. I am not the most "faithful" of individuals around, but I do have somewhat of a sense that everything happens in its season, and for a reason.

lizzie said:

Well, I am pretty inclined toward a belief in reincarnation, so a single event in a specific lifetime is significant only in temporary terms, because I believe the soul moves forward overall, and that for the most part, the whole of humanity is in a process of evolution, physically and spiritually. I am not the most "faithful" of individuals around, but I do have somewhat of a sense that everything happens in its season, and for a reason.

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When Jesus said, 'In my father's house are many mansions.' Was he referring to the human being having many incarnations? Paul, I believe it was in 1 Corinthians, called the body the temple of the Holy Spirit.

19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

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There are references to reincarnation throughout the Bible. The article below tells of some of them. People of that day believed in reincarnation.

The doctrines of pre-existence and reincarnation existed as secret teachings of Jesus until they were declared a heresy by the Roman Church in 553 A.D at the Second Council of Constantinople. It was at this time that the Roman Church aggressively destroyed competing teachings and so-called heresies within the Church. Along with the destruction of unorthodox teachings came the destruction of Jews, Gnostics, and ultimately anyone who stood in the way of the Inquisition and Crusades.

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Jesus, Himself, identified John the Baptist as the reincarnation of Elijah.

"For all the prophets and the law have prophesied until John. And if you are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who was to come." (Matthew 11:13-14)

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Reincarnation and the Bible | Near-Death.com

Maenad said:

... But this thread is not whether Jesus was an Essene or not. ?

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It is a controversial assertion and one most scholars dispute... rightfully it ought to be your place to offer some kind of evidence of this, rather than simply asserting it then forbidding it to be discussed or disputed.


You need not address it if you do not wish to of course... but refusing to do so does cast a certain doubt on the credibility of it.

Goshin said:

It is a controversial assertion and one most scholars dispute... rightfully it ought to be your place to offer some kind of evidence of this, rather than simply asserting it then forbidding it to be discussed or disputed.


You need not address it if you do not wish to of course... but refusing to do so does cast a certain doubt on the credibility of it.

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Yes, and this is the kind of jot and tittle nitpicking derailment which Jesus himself had to put up with. But I will humor you as He did the Pharisees:

Since the archaeological discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls in 1946, the word "Essene" has made its way around the world--often raising a lot of questions. Many people were astonished to discover that, two thousand years ago, a brotherhood of holy men and women, living together in a community, carried within themselves all of the seeds of Christianity and of future western civilization. This brotherhood--more or less persecuted and ostracized--would bring forth people who would change the face of the world and the course of history. Indeed, almost all of the principal founders of what would later be called Christianity were Essenes--St. Ann, Joseph and Mary, John the Baptist, Jesus, John the Evangelist, etc.

The Essenes considered themselves to be a separate people--not because of external signs like skin color, hair color, etc., but because of the illumination of their inner life and their knowledge of the hidden mysteries of nature unknown to other men. They considered themselves to be also a group of people at the center of all peoples--because everyone could become part of it, as soon as they had successfully passed the selective tests.
They thought, and rightly so, that they were the heirs of God's sons and daughters of old, the heirs to their great ancient civilization. They possessed their advanced knowledge and worked assiduously in secret for the triumph of the light over the darkness of the human mind.

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Who were the Essenes?

There.

Now, I will reiterate it is the more esoteric teachings of the ancient world in general and Jesus in specific and how his teachings related to the same that this thread is here for. I see you are not going to touch the notion of fire, but another has been raised, reincarnation. Have at it.

Maenad said:

There.

Now, I will reiterate it is the more esoteric teachings of the ancient world in general and Jesus in specific and how his teachings related to the same that this thread is here for. I see you are not going to touch the notion of fire, but another has been raised, reincarnation. Have at it.

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Well, the notion of fire isn't anything that has been mentioned in the stuff I've delved into, and the idea of reincarnation has, and to me, it makes perfect sense, if there is, indeed, anything to life outside the physical realm, and assuming that this isn't just a meaningless existence that we put up with here on earth. I am inclined toward thinking (as I mentioned a couple of posts ago) that there is a reason for everything which happens, and that all events and circumstances are loosely interconnected. To me, it's a similar concept as the question of why "God" lets bad things happen. To me, it isn't God which determines that bad things happen. They happen as a natural occurrence, based on the needs of individual (and groups of) souls who have specific things to learn and accomplish. I look at life as a school of sorts. Sometimes I even consider it a reform school for wayward souls. :lol:

Reincarnation is not a doctrine that I find comforting. And yet, Jesus himself clearly said that reincarnation had occurred with John the Baptist. Personally, I really don't want another go at this life, certainly not as challenging as my life has been. And I can't think about reincarnation without thinking about the line in Bucket List: "What does a snail have to do to reincarnate? Leave the perfect trail of slime?"

If we are interpreting what we see in Egypt correctly, the Egyptians did not believe in reincarnation. It would appear that they believed in an afterlife that offered some challenges in the beginning. One of my guides in Egypt was a theologian who had been educated in a Catholic college in the US. He was very patient to entertain my theological questions. And he often answered me with this statement: We just don't know, there has been a stone age between us and them. And, IMO, that is the problem with our modern religion. I think it has lost its vim, vigor, and vitality because for one thing, there have been dark ages between us and them, and another because the most concrete thinkers of the human race have grabbed onto it and ruled out anything except the most concrete and personally comfortable ideas. IMO, that despicable process started with the Apostle Paul, although even Paul has more grasp of mysticism than most modern humans have.

lizzie said:

Well, the notion of fire isn't anything that has been mentioned in the stuff I've delved into, and the idea of reincarnation has, and to me, it makes perfect sense, if there is, indeed, anything to life outside the physical realm, and assuming that this isn't just a meaningless existence that we put up with here on earth. I am inclined toward thinking (as I mentioned a couple of posts ago) that there is a reason for everything which happens, and that all events and circumstances are loosely interconnected. To me, it's a similar concept as the question of why "God" lets bad things happen. To me, it isn't God which determines that bad things happen. They happen as a natural occurrence, based on the needs of individual (and groups of) souls who have specific things to learn and accomplish. I look at life as a school of sorts. Sometimes I even consider it a reform school for wayward souls. :lol:

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I can't cite the verses from memory, but when I go to visit my husband's grave, I will jot down the fairly extensive amount of text (for a mere tombstone) I had put onto our monument. You could put as much text as you wanted with no additional charge, so I made the most of the space. I get some very interesting comments about 'those pretty words on your stone.' Anyway, the idea of a 'school' is what is captured on our monument.

I think so much has been lost to us and much of it deliberately so by those who would dictate how we think and believe. There is very little in the Bible about reincarnation, but it IS there straight from Jesus' mouth. And nowhere in the Bible does it say that Mary Magdalene was a prostitute. That is entirely made up out of whole cloth. What we see in the Bible is that Mary Magdalene had a profound love for Jesus.

Maenad said:

Reincarnation is not a doctrine that I find comforting. And yet, Jesus himself clearly said that reincarnation had occurred with John the Baptist. Personally, I really don't want another go at this life, certainly not as challenging as my life has been. And I can't think about reincarnation without thinking about the line in Bucket List: "What does a snail have to do to reincarnate? Leave the perfect trail of slime?"

.

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Well, my view of reincarnation isn't one which means we evolve from lesser animals, as it isn't the body which is important, except in that it facilitates certain attributes which we may need to deal with. To me, it revolves around spiritual, mental, and emotional evolution. I don't find it uncomfortable at all, as it isn't typically something which most people would have any significant knowledge of at the time.

lizzie said:

Well, my view of reincarnation isn't one which means we evolve from lesser animals, as it isn't the body which is important, except in that it facilitates certain attributes which we may need to deal with. To me, it revolves around spiritual, mental, and emotional evolution. I don't find it uncomfortable at all, as it isn't typically something which most people would have any significant knowledge of at the time.

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I would not be able to accept that humans would be reincarnated into other animals. But I think a human who was wealthy but not wise, could come back as a very poor person. My only real hang up with reincarnation is the lack of memory of the previous life. And, I know some claim to have recovered such memories. Generally, we don't have that type of information available to us, so how would it help us to grow spiritually if we didn't know the reason for our misfortune, or good fortune as the case may be. But then, here again, there is likely teachings out there on the subject to which we have no access.

Maenad said:

Yes, and this is the kind of jot and tittle nitpicking derailment which Jesus himself had to put up with. But I will humor you as He did the Pharisees:



Who were the Essenes?

There.

Now, I will reiterate it is the more esoteric teachings of the ancient world in general and Jesus in specific and how his teachings related to the same that this thread is here for. I see you are not going to touch the notion of fire, but another has been raised, reincarnation. Have at it.

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Mm. Couple things...

I don't appreciate being associated with Pharisees just because I asked a question. That's a bit rude, you know.

Second, what you posted does not constitute substantial evidence that Jesus or the Apostles were Essenes in the slightest. It should come as no surprise that I've spent a couple hours refreshing my memory about Essenes and the Order and related topics, which I have studied about previously... and the origins of Jesus and the Apostles do not match what is believed to be common Essene practices. For instance, some of the Apostles were fishermen, some were married, Peter was a Zealot, and so on... this does not mesh with Essene practice, which is said by Pliny and Josephus and others to involve something much like Monastic living, celibacy, withdrawal from trade and worldly concerns, and self-defense pacifism which certainly does not match the expressed hope some Apostles had that Roman rule would be thrown off from Judea.

Now as to the lamp business, as I've said if you can manage to duplicate the never-burning-out lantern feat you will certainly have my attention.

Reincarnation is only mentioned in the matter of John the Baptist and Elijah, and possibly Enoch in the Witnesses of Revelation, to my knowledge. If you wish to assert further references I will listen and consider.


At this point I will drop the matter of Jesus as an Essene if you do not wish to discuss it further; but in such case I will have to consider it an unproven assertion to be taken with a grain of skepticism.

I find this thread interesting... but you're going to need to accept that by broaching such a controversial array of subjects that you're not going to be met with simple and complete acceptance and credulity. Questions are going to be asked and there will be a certain skepticism... you need to accept that. Discussion here are almost never a Socratian Dialog where the Master says XYZ and the chorus simply says "Yes, Socrates, of course Socrates, how clever, Socrates."

Unquestioning acceptance of controversial pronouncements just isn't a common feature of life at DP...

Maenad said:

But then most of His life is not chronicled anywhere. He was MIA for most of his life? Where, then, do you suppose He was during those years? And one but has to look at the teachings of His that we have left to see WHAT he was actually teaching. But this thread is not whether Jesus was an Essene or not. So drop it, and get back on topic. Right now we are discussing fire as it relates to antiquity in general and Christianity in specific. Have you nothing to add?

So you do not believe a lamp can stay lit for 1500 years. So, I guess the sun will go out at any moment. That particular 'lamp' has been lit far longer than 1500 years. And it is the energy of the sun our scientists of this day seek to be able to duplicate. Given that we cannot even explain how the megalithic structures of the ancient world were built, is it really ours to say that the ancients did not know how to create a lamp that could extract what it needed to burn from the air?

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There seems to be a hint of Zoroastrianism about your ideas here.

Andalublue said:

There seems to be a hint of Zoroastrianism about your ideas here.

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Good catch.

Goshin said:

Mm. Couple things...

I don't appreciate being associated with Pharisees just because I asked a question. That's a bit rude, you know.

Second, what you posted does not constitute substantial evidence that Jesus or the Apostles were Essenes in the slightest. It should come as no surprise that I've spent a couple hours refreshing my memory about Essenes and the Order and related topics, which I have studied about previously... and the origins of Jesus and the Apostles do not match what is believed to be common Essene practices. For instance, some of the Apostles were fishermen, some were married, Peter was a Zealot, and so on... this does not mesh with Essene practice, which is said by Pliny and Josephus and others to involve something much like Monastic living, celibacy, withdrawal from trade and worldly concerns, and self-defense pacifism which certainly does not match the expressed hope some Apostles had that Roman rule would be thrown off from Judea.

Now as to the lamp business, as I've said if you can manage to duplicate the never-burning-out lantern feat you will certainly have my attention.

Reincarnation is only mentioned in the matter of John the Baptist and Elijah, and possibly Enoch in the Witnesses of Revelation, to my knowledge. If you wish to assert further references I will listen and consider.


At this point I will drop the matter of Jesus as an Essene if you do not wish to discuss it further; but in such case I will have to consider it an unproven assertion to be taken with a grain of skepticism.

I find this thread interesting... but you're going to need to accept that by broaching such a controversial array of subjects that you're not going to be met with simple and complete acceptance and credulity. Questions are going to be asked and there will be a certain skepticism... you need to accept that. Discussion here are almost never a Socratian Dialog where the Master says XYZ and the chorus simply says "Yes, Socrates, of course Socrates, how clever, Socrates."

Unquestioning acceptance of controversial pronouncements just isn't a common feature of life at DP...

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Then do feel free to enlighten us. And I will fee free to ignore you.

You can think whatever you like. Ignorance is bliss as they say, and it is pretty clear that there aren't many who have spent the time reading the ancient texts that I have spent. They are out there to be studied, you just have to look. Certainly no one seems to have much to add. Including yourself. I see you as more a 'Bible says it all' type because the government of King James told you so. Your problem, not mine.

Maenad said:

Generally, we don't have that type of information available to us, so how would it help us to grow spiritually if we didn't know the reason for our misfortune, or good fortune as the case may be. .

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The reason it would help us grow is the same concept as any other lesson helps us grow. Much of what we learn probably gets integrated into the "higher" part of us which lasts. That part of us doesn't necessarily identify with physical life, but is a lasting part of us mentally and emotionally. The way I envision it is sort of the way I view basic and subconscious fears. We fear certain things innately, probably due to old old human experiences which taught us the potential harms associated with them. The things that we learn in life likely get processed into a part of the subconscious memory.

Maenad said:

Then do feel free to enlighten us. And I will fee free to ignore you.

You can think whatever you like. Ignorance is bliss as they say, and it is pretty clear that there aren't many who have spent the time reading the ancient texts that I have spent. They are out there to be studied, you just have to look. Certainly no one seems to have much to add. Including yourself.

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It was not my intention to give offense; if I have done so, I apologize. I thought I was merely asking questions, which it is my nature to do.

Maenad said:

But then most of His life is not chronicled anywhere. He was MIA for most of his life?

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Yes, a big chunk of his life is not chronicled. That doesn't prove that during that period, he joined the Essenes, studied their doctrines, then went back to Nazareth as though nothing had happened. I'm not aware of any documents wherein Jesus claimed he was one of the Essenes, including among the Nag Hammadi scrolls.

But this thread is not whether Jesus was an Essene or not.

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Then why did you start out with the statement "there are others who know that Christ was an Essene" -- a statement with no proof, and for which you apparently cannot provide proof? Is this one of those dog-whistle things I keep hearing about? :mrgreen:

Right now we are discussing fire as it relates to antiquity in general and Christianity in specific. Have you nothing to add?

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As others have noted, you could pick out a variety of terms and treat them like a religious Rorschach test. What you're doing is as much a literary exercise as unearthing religious information. Aren't you glad you asked what I have to add?

So you do not believe a lamp can stay lit for 1500 years. So, I guess the sun will go out at any moment.

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The sun has a mass of 1.9891 × 1030 kilograms, which means more than enough fuel to last beyond tomorrow.

At a rough guess, a half gallon of modern lamp oil will last about 6 days. A lamp would need about 45,000 gallons of oil to last 1500 years. Did they find the lamp connected to a gigantic tank of oil?

That particular 'lamp' has been lit far longer than 1500 years. And it is the energy of the sun our scientists of this day seek to be able to duplicate. Given that we cannot even explain how the megalithic structures of the ancient world were built, is it really ours to say that the ancients did not know how to create a lamp that could extract what it needed to burn from the air?

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Yes.

We can in fact produce fusion; that's how thermonuclear warheads work. We've also developed some prototype fusion reactors. What we cannot yet do is harness fusion as a cheap energy source.

We are also figuring out how many of those megalithic structures were built. One example is the Easter Island statues. There were numerous ways these could have been moved without wheels, but the oral traditions said the statues walked. So a couple of archaeologists came up with a method which might explain the story:



In addition, "moving a huge chunk of stone" doesn't defy logic and the laws of physics. Neither does Greek fire, which we know existed but we don't know what they actually used to make it. Inventing a lamp that could stay lit in a closed room, for 1500 years, with no apparent supervision or oversight, is rather irrational. The only possible explanation is supernatural.

You are welcome to believe such supernatural claims if you like, but I see little reason to pay much attention to such apocryphal stories.

Visbek said:

Yes, a big chunk of his life is not chronicled. That doesn't prove that during that period, he joined the Essenes, studied their doctrines, then went back to Nazareth as though nothing had happened. I'm not aware of any documents wherein Jesus claimed he was one of the Essenes, including among the Nag Hammadi scrolls.



Then why did you start out with the statement "there are others who know that Christ was an Essene" -- a statement with no proof, and for which you apparently cannot provide proof? Is this one of those dog-whistle things I keep hearing about? :mrgreen:



As others have noted, you could pick out a variety of terms and treat them like a religious Rorschach test. What you're doing is as much a literary exercise as unearthing religious information. Aren't you glad you asked what I have to add?



The sun has a mass of 1.9891 × 1030 kilograms, which means more than enough fuel to last beyond tomorrow.

At a rough guess, a half gallon of modern lamp oil will last about 6 days. A lamp would need about 45,000 gallons of oil to last 1500 years. Did they find the lamp connected to a gigantic tank of oil?



Yes.

We can in fact produce fusion; that's how thermonuclear warheads work. We've also developed some prototype fusion reactors. What we cannot yet do is harness fusion as a cheap energy source.

We are also figuring out how many of those megalithic structures were built. One example is the Easter Island statues. There were numerous ways these could have been moved without wheels, but the oral traditions said the statues walked. So a couple of archaeologists came up with a method which might explain the story:



In addition, "moving a huge chunk of stone" doesn't defy logic and the laws of physics. Neither does Greek fire, which we know existed but we don't know what they actually used to make it. Inventing a lamp that could stay lit in a closed room, for 1500 years, with no apparent supervision or oversight, is rather irrational. The only possible explanation is supernatural.

You are welcome to believe such supernatural claims if you like, but I see little reason to pay much attention to such apocryphal stories.

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That was the first I'd heard about "walking" the big Easter Island statues... that was awesome, thanks!