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Christianity a mystery religion?

Of course Jesus never said that the King James Version of the scriptures is the all inclusive and only correct version of anything, now did he. That was the government that said that. And modern day preachers find that to be a most convenient stand to make, sure saves them a lot of work shuffling through other texts. LOL. What I don't understand is why people fall for that. If our government endorsed a particular version of the Bible, you would take it out and burn it.
 
Originally Posted by tosca1 View Post

First, the concept of reincarnation would have been completely foreign to the Jewish mind. We cannot simply import Eastern religious thought into the words of a first-century Jew. If anything, Elijah “come again” would have simply been Elijah raised from the dead at the coming of the Lord (cf. Daniel 12). So, even if John the Baptist were literally the person of Elijah, it would have been a resurrection, not a reincarnation. To say otherwise is to force one’s preconceived view of reincarnation on Scripture.

Second, the Bible is quite clear that John the Baptist is given this designation because he came in the “spirit and power of Elijah” (Luke 1:17), not because he was Elijah in a literal sense. John the Baptist is the New Testament forerunner who points the way to the arrival of the Lord, just as Elijah filled that role in the Old Testament (and will again in the future – see Revelation 11). Third, Elijah himself appears with Moses at Jesus’ transfiguration after John the Baptist’s death. This would not have happened if Elijah had changed his identity (Matthew 17:11-12).

Read more: Was John the Baptist really Elijah reincarnated?


Do you believe Jesus is the Messiah, as prophesied in the OT?
If so, you no longer have to seek.

Satan had used a lot of "ifs" in his attempt to tempt Christ.

Maenad

Jewish doctrine doesn't have any dogma about an afterlife either. Try again.

Here's an explanation about that.


Why Doesn’t the Torah Discuss the Afterlife?

No one knows exactly why the Torah doesn't discuss the afterlife. Instead, the Torah focuses on "Olam Ha Ze," which means "this world." Rabbi Joseph Telushkin believes that this focus on the here and now is not only intentional but directly related to the Israelite exodus from Egypt.

According to Jewish tradition God gave the Torah to the Israelites after their journey through the desert, not long after they fled a life of slavery in Egypt. Rabbi Teluskhin points out that Egyptian society was obsessed with life after death. Their holiest text was called "The Book of the Dead," and both mummification and tombs like the pyramids were meant to prepare a person for existence in the afterlife. Perhaps, suggests Rabbi Telushkin, the Torah does not talk about life after death in order to distinguish itself from Egyptian thought. In contrast to "The Book of the Dead," the Torah focuses on the importance of living a good life here and now.
The Afterlife in Judaism - Jewish Views


Anyway, what's quite significant are the New Testament account of John The Baptist.


Will have to stop here and continue some other time. Got to go.
 
It is clear that the Pharisees on this forum have only a rudimentary, literal, and concrete notion of Christianity. This thread is not intended to appeal to them. There are others who know that Christ was an Essene and an initiate into the mystery religion of His day. Christ was teaching mysteries every day. He prefaced many of his teachings with, 'I show you a mystery' and said only those with an ear would hear. He admonished his followers to 'ask, seek, and knock' and promised that what they seek would be opened unto them. This thread is intended to appeal to the seekers amongst the DF denizens, those with an ear, those who ask, seek, and knock. I will be very interested to see what I get back after casting this out into the waters.

In the ancient mystery religion, fire was important. There is a legend that the initiates could create a lamp with an ever burning light, a light which started with oil, but the changed and took fuel from the air, never having to be replenished. There are stories of such lamps having been found in ancient tombs. Also, one is said to have burned for 120 years in the tomb of Christian Rosencrantz, the founder of Rosicrucianism. Magic was a part of the ancient religions and was also a part of Christ's ministry even to the point of raising the dead. Even a disciple raised the dead. Do you have the stomach for a thread like this. It is not for the faint of heart! If you do, enter and discuss. If you cannot contribute to the discussion, please have the common courtesy to not disrupt the spirit of this thread.

Here goes:

That Jesus used some of the same tropes and ideas as the Essenes and others doesn't mean he was one. We don't know how commonplace those ideas were and what other groups used them.

Jesus was a figure familiar to the citizens of the Levant -- the itenerate rabbi and miracle worker. He would have picked up all sorts of ideas in his wanderings. Central to His ministry was the idea that He was a way to God that didn't require acceptance at the Temple or large, expensive sacrifices. John the Baptist was another such figure. Several other such rabbis show up in the Talmud. Jesus was able to demonstrate his connection to God and his authority by working miracles and healing. Thus he had the authority to forgive sins. That he went among the common people to minister marks him as distinctly different from the Essenes.
 
That Jesus used some of the same tropes and ideas as the Essenes and others doesn't mean he was one. We don't know how commonplace those ideas were and what other groups used them.

Jesus was a figure familiar to the citizens of the Levant -- the itenerate rabbi and miracle worker. He would have picked up all sorts of ideas in his wanderings. Central to His ministry was the idea that He was a way to God that didn't require acceptance at the Temple or large, expensive sacrifices. John the Baptist was another such figure. Several other such rabbis show up in the Talmud. Jesus was able to demonstrate his connection to God and his authority by working miracles and healing. Thus he had the authority to forgive sins. That he went among the common people to minister marks him as distinctly different from the Essenes.

2 Chronicles 33:6, King Manasseh is condemned for his many evil practices, including sorcery: “And he burned his sons as an offering in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, and used fortune-telling and omens and sorcery, and dealt with mediums and with necromancers. He did much evil in the sight of the LORD, provoking him to anger.”

The apostle Paul lists sorcery as one of many sinful practices that mark the lives of unbelievers: “Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife . . . and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God” (Galatians 5:19-21).

Read more: What does the Bible say about sorcery?

And yet Jesus did things which could be considered 'sorcery.' So did his disciples. But it all got lost. There's been a Dark Age between us and them.
 
Alchemy Academy Archive -1999-2006 edited by Adam McLean

Ahh, but our eyes do see. We see many things which were once denied, germs, the splitting of the atom, even the rearranging of the blueprint for plant and animal life. Such bold Alchemy we practice since the close of the Dark Age.

Très bonne et magnifique, you have two eyes. What do you C with the 3rd? Eh? You see the how, the how is meaningless. It is repetitive. How, how, how, over and over, how, how, how, how. I detest it. It sickens me, the how, how unimportant it is. The why, the why is where our focus of inquiry should be, what I said you cannot see, the why, the why has meaning, the why has power, it is finite in its infiniteness . The why reveals the how, the how cannot reveal the why. There is no revelation in the how, it is an exercise in mimicry. We ape what IS and mistake ourselves for the I AM.

In light there is no meaning, only blindness.
 
Très bonne et magnifique, you have two eyes. What do you C with the 3rd? Eh? You see the how, the how is meaningless. It is repetitive. How, how, how, over and over, how, how, how, how. I detest it. It sickens me, the how, how unimportant it is. The why, the why is where our focus of inquiry should be, what I said you cannot see, the why, the why has meaning, the why has power, it is finite in its infiniteness . The why reveals the how, the how cannot reveal the why. There is no revelation in the how, it is an exercise in mimicry. We ape what IS and mistake ourselves for the I AM.

In light there is no meaning, only blindness.

Try reading without the light and tell me 'how' that works out for ya.
 
Try reading without the light and tell me 'how' that works out for ya.

Who said without? You do not see by light, but from the shadows...
 
Jewish doctrine doesn't have any dogma about an afterlife either. Try again.
Actually there is lots of stories about Jewish afterlife.....
 
And yet Jesus did things which could be considered 'sorcery.'

Yet, He forbids sorcery. Because His demonstrations of power came from God - not the devil!


So did his disciples. But it all got lost. There's been a Dark Age between us and them.

They were empowered by God - not the devil!


Why do you think what those 10 plagues of Egypt (Exodus) was also all about.......

........ but to show that Egypts' gods are no match for His power?

Didn't the priests of Egypt practiced sorcery?
 
Yet, He forbids sorcery. Because His demonstrations of power came from God - not the devil!




They were empowered by God - not the devil!


Why do you think what those 10 plagues of Egypt (Exodus) was also all about.......

........ but to show that Egypts' gods are no match for His power?

Didn't the priests of Egypt practiced sorcery?

The Jews considered Jesus a sorcerer and his followers did not step forward to defend him:

By the beginning of the second century AD, Jewish tradition had firmly woven an accusation of Jesus’ magical activity into its anti-Christian polemic. The Tract Sanhedrin, the fourth tractate of the fourth set of six series which comprise the Mishnah (compiled in the second century AD) and later included in the Babylonian Talmud (compiled in the sixth century AD), contains an intriguing passage in which Jesus’ hurried trial, as reported in the Christian Gospels, is extended to a period of forty days to allow people to step forward and defend him. As a defence fails to emerge, the passage states that Jesus was executed as a sorcerer:

Was Jesus A Magician?: 3. Accusations of Magic
 
And for anyone who would like to make an ever burning lamp here is the recipe:

The perpetual lamp has been written about and pondered by many a spirtualist. The lamp is said to be a traditional light used in the tombs, and crypts of the early Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Rosicrucians, and Jewish people. The lamp was said, once sealed to burn for centuries without fail. Some, have even claimed that when the tombs were unearthed centuries later they found these lamps still burning. The method of how is up for conjecture.

It has been thought initially that the lamps may have been fed by underground source of petrolatum, oil and other naturally occuring fuels. While others such as Athanasius Kircher merely ascribed the lamps to be the trick of the devil trying to sway people the worship and praise of false Gods. But, even the bible gives mention to a perpetual lamp. In Exodus 27:20 “And you shall command the children of Israel, that they bring you pure oil olive beaten for the light, to cause the lamp to burn always.”

H.P. Blavatsky and Willy Schrodter also wrote a great deal on these perpetual lamps. Curiously both of them had a recipe for said perpetual lamps and Blavatsky even went as far as to decree “We may add that we have ourselves seen a lamp so prepared, and we are told that since it was first lighted on May 2, 1871, it has not gone out.” Now of course we have no way of knowing where this lamp may be and if it is still alight today but below you may find the recipe for such a lamp, as transcribed by Willy Schrodter.

Take:
1 1/2oz. flowers of sulphur
1 oz. burnt alum

and place them in a subliming pot after a thorough mixing. Place a similar pot mouth to mouth with this and seal the join well with potter’s cement. The pot with the mixture inside is set on a coal fire so that it becomes red hot for approximately one hour, and the sublimed fixed mass is taken out to be pulverized in a mortar. Half as much pure borax by weight is added to the resultant powder and the whole is then reduced to a similar powder in the mortar. This powder is placed in a shallow glass or porcelain basin and is covered with the most highly rectified spirit of wine (ethyl alcohol). The basin is now placed on hot ashes, held over a coal fire in a small caldron, and the spirit is allowed to evaporate slowly. When the mass runs thick like oil, a little of it is removed and laid on a red-hot sheet of copper. Now if the mass runs like wax without smoking, it is ready; but, if it still smokes, more spirit must be poured into the basin and evaporated as before, and the process is to be repeated until the samples no longer emit smoke when tested. The product is then ready.

A wick is now made, about 2 inches long and as thick as the piggest piece of quill. The material used is asbestos or white fibrous gypsum (steatite) bound with silk thread. The prepared mass is then placed in a strong glass made for the purpose, the wick is inserted and the preparation left standing for 24 hours in hot sand. The wick is the pulled up and a sufficiently large lamp chimney is made for it so that it is only slightly exposed at the top and the perepetually burning sulphur mass pours onto it, and the glass is placed in hot sand until the sulphur mass melts and collects around the wick. Finally, the lamp which has been prepared in this way is lit with a light and placed in a place where it will not be disturbed. It will then go on burning without ever going out.

Surprisingly, with the excpetion of the asbestos all of these items can still be purchased from a metal smithing or jewelery maker supplier. The science of it is not that completely unfounded. I should warn the reader though that if you plan to attempt this, inhaling, or handling asbestos has been known to cause mesothelioma and I will refer you to our terms of use.

The purpose of the perpetual lamp may have served as a two fold purpose, one to act as a ight for the deceased to walk through the valley of the shadow of death and the other as a testament to the importance of the deceased.


Read more: The Perpetual Lamp – Excommunicate.Net

The only thing not commonly available is asbestos, but you can use gypsum instead.
 
The Jews considered Jesus a sorcerer and his followers did not step forward to defend him:



Was Jesus A Magician?: 3. Accusations of Magic

You have to appreciate the accuracy and honesty of any article/opinion that begins
"A brief glance over the polemical materials which circulated in response to the spread of early Christianity reveals a sinister figure that appears time and time again; Jesus the magician" because a "brief glance" is going to be far more powerful and convincing on the single most written about/studied/scrutinized/debated/discussed individual in human history than a detailed and substantive "glance".

And not for nothing but Jesus was not killed because he was a magician, his death was a direct result of His claims placing him equal to God and in fact at one point claiming as directly as any Jewish man could by saying "before Abraham is born I AM". This was about as offensive to the Jewish elders as is possible to imagine which is why the immediat reaction was to kill Him themselves on the spot, and if it has to be explained why that was the case, then there is no reason to discuss it.
 
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The Jews considered Jesus a sorcerer and his followers did not step forward to defend him:

Was Jesus A Magician?: 3. Accusations of Magic

The Jews also considered Him a Blasphemer!

He was also accused of inciting people to riot.

AND?


Furthermore.....you're claiming with certainty no one defended Him....how do you know that?

You don't think any follower engaged in any heated debate against any detractors?

What did you expect by way of defense? Name-calling? All-out brawl? Civil war? :lol:



FYI, when He was arrested, Peter actually struck a soldier with his sword - but Jesus told him to put away his sword.

WHAT HAPPENED TO JESUS HAD TO HAPPEN. IT'S THE FULFILLMENT OF THE OT PROPHECY!
 
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Lots of references to and symbolism of fire magical and otherwise in the Bible. Guess you aren't big on them. Oh well. Any seekers out there who will take up this discussion? Any idea what the magic lamps found in tombs actually were?

Light bulb moments?
 
It is clear that the Pharisees on this forum have only a rudimentary, literal, and concrete notion of Christianity. This thread is not intended to appeal to them. There are others who know that Christ was an Essene and an initiate into the mystery religion of His day. Christ was teaching mysteries every day. He prefaced many of his teachings with, 'I show you a mystery' and said only those with an ear would hear. He admonished his followers to 'ask, seek, and knock' and promised that what they seek would be opened unto them. This thread is intended to appeal to the seekers amongst the DF denizens, those with an ear, those who ask, seek, and knock. I will be very interested to see what I get back after casting this out into the waters.

In the ancient mystery religion, fire was important. There is a legend that the initiates could create a lamp with an ever burning light, a light which started with oil, but the changed and took fuel from the air, never having to be replenished. There are stories of such lamps having been found in ancient tombs. Also, one is said to have burned for 120 years in the tomb of Christian Rosencrantz, the founder of Rosicrucianism. Magic was a part of the ancient religions and was also a part of Christ's ministry even to the point of raising the dead. Even a disciple raised the dead. Do you have the stomach for a thread like this. It is not for the faint of heart! If you do, enter and discuss. If you cannot contribute to the discussion, please have the common courtesy to not disrupt the spirit of this thread.

Here goes:

Evidence that Jesus was an Essene`?

Jesus worshiped at the temple, which would seam to disqualify him, he wasn't all to conserned With purity, which was the main thing Essenes did, he wasn't out in the desert by himself, he was in the cities With the People ... There is just no way Jesus was an Essene.

The sayings where Jesus say's "Let those With ears listen" is just a figure of speach, and was something he said when he was making Public teachings, not Secret ones.

Jesus came out of Judaism, the Mystery religions were not prominent in Galilee or Judah, and wern't really part of Judaism.
 
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