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Hinduism and God

Karma and the caste system are completely separate.

Except that you said Indian culture and society were garbage until the West came along and modernized it.

Take that, Satanism!

Well westernizing India had yielded great benefits for the country.

What did I say? I said that hinduism didn't abolish slavery and any attempt to so by themselves was a failure... the west did end it in all places they controlled or exerted influence. It was Britain and France whom, aside from ending slavery in their own empires and including in places where slavery had been practiced forever, like Africa and India, they also ended slavery in the Ottoman empire forcing them to end the practice for good in 1906. this is perfectly true.

The Murghals dominated India, well most of it, before the British came along and eventually deposed them in the mid XIXth century. 100 years later India got its independence and unlike before, it now had railways, access to western education and knowledge, medicine, industry, etc. Vast expanses. As opposed to the Murghals who were their masters before the British, what did the Murghals ever gave the hindus except massacres?

Btw, I'm not british, so this isn't like a masturbatory exercise. It's just reality and history as it was. I'm not polishing a turd wherever a turd is and I'm not going to close the eyes to turds either. It's just what was.
 
I said that hinduism didn't abolish slavery and any attempt to so by themselves was a failure...

Lets not pretend that Britain came into India and introduced civilization. Slavery was abolished in Britain like 10 years prior to India.

Also from what I've read, although the caste system existed in India prior to colonization, it became more rigid and segregated under British rule. This ultimately sparked social unrest, and that is what led to the end of the caste system.

Your interpretation would have you believe that the West came in on a rainbow and sprinkled pixie dust on a group of slave drivers.
 
Lets not pretend that Britain came into India and introduced civilization. Slavery was abolished in Britain like 10 years prior to India.

Also from what I've read, although the caste system existed in India prior to colonization, it became more rigid and segregated under British rule. This ultimately sparked social unrest, and that is what led to the end of the caste system.

Your interpretation would have you believe that the West came in on a rainbow and sprinkled pixie dust on a group of slave drivers.

Are you sure about that? I think you mean more like 800 years or so.
Slavery stopped existing in Europe in the high middle ages. It died out when the Carolingian empire ended because the Carolingian empire had slavery with the slavs... slavs... slaves... that's where you get the connotation sadly.
It persisted in muslim lands and lands bordering muslim lands in the XIIth century and onward, but not in western and central Europe.
It persisted to a degree in the Byzantine Empire though it was on the decline, then again, so was the empire. And ofc, it persisted in eastern europe due to the mongols and later the ottomans. But in western europe... nope. Pretty much died out in the late middle ages.

There was no slavery in Europe for centuries before the great powers decided to end it worldwide in their colonies too. Britain did it in 2 goes the final one in 1833. France did it once and way earlier, right after Portugal (the exception, the sole country in western Europe that had mainland slavery in Portugal and that caused its downfall) if memory serves in the mid-to-late 1700s, nearly reintroduced slavery under Napoleon for the colonies during the height of the war but that never happened. Spain was late to the party ending slavery in its latin american colonies in the late XIXth century but Spain lost much of its empire due to... reasons. Had a bit of help falling down the stairs from England and France and then it gracefully kicked its own bucket later down the line.

The British in India simply instituted and protected the system that the indians wanted to live in. That's why the maharajas were there to make whatever system was friendly and familiar to their people in exchange for remaining in power. And the indians wanted the caste system, at least their maharajas did. The reason you say it wasn't so strict before was because before it was ruled by the muslims. The Murghals. Who instituted their own laws, islamic laws and had little patience with the hindus and their absurd practices. So of course while the caste system still existed, it existed not at the state level, as an institutionalized system because you had the Murghals laws at that level, it existed at the popular level and at local aristocracy levels.

The end of the caste system came with westernization because oh my.. suddenly there are whole new professions and things to be part of that didn't quite fit in the backwater mentality and the rigidity of the caste system. Technology brings with it freedom for people. It is why today there are sufficiently many indians to make a dent in the numbers, that don't give a hoot about the caste system or hindu traditions. Because they have better things to worry about than some stupid backwater religion. But while they are sufficiently many to be noticed, they're extremely few in comparison to the huge population of India which is still quite devout.

As I said, I'm not in the business of polishing turds.
I'm not taking a massive dump on India
 
The British in India simply instituted and protected the system that the indians wanted to live in.

Not quite.

Caste system in India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Caste is commonly thought of as an ancient fact of Indian life, but various contemporary scholars have argued that the caste system was significantly reconfigured by British colonial regime.[5][13] Nicholas Dirks has argued that Indian caste was "fundamentally transformed by British colonial rule",[14] to recreate it as a "modern phenomenon".[13][15] Between 1860 and 1920, the British segregated Indians by caste, granting administrative jobs and senior appointments only to the upper castes. Social unrest during 1920s led to a change in this policy.[16][17] From then on, the colonial administration began a policy of affirmative action by reserving a certain percentage of government jobs for the lower castes.[18] After India achieved independence, this policy of caste-based reservation of jobs and positive discrimination was formalized with lists of Scheduled Castes (Dalit) and Scheduled Tribes (Adivasi).[19]
 
Not quite.

You keep doing this thing that is very irritating and that is you don't respond to the entirety of the comment and just segment one thing out and that's that.

What did I just say? I said that
The end of the caste system came with westernization because oh my.. suddenly there are whole new professions and things to be part of that didn't quite fit in the backwater mentality and the rigidity of the caste system
The British in India simply instituted and protected the system that the indians wanted to live in. That's why the maharajas were there to make whatever system was friendly and familiar to their people in exchange for remaining in power. And the indians wanted the caste system, at least their maharajas did.

Put these 2 sentences together and you get... what?
Right, you get a new caste system that is still a caste system because that's what the indians wanted but updated for the new times.

You cannot find holes in my arguments Amadeus.

But you failed to address:
the issue that you were wrong on slavery.
the issue that you didn't know about the murghals and the muslim conquest
the issue that you don't accept all implications about westernization and colonialism
the issue of you trying to equate a religion with a culture as if attacking one is attacking the people or something... I don't know because you fail, every time, to argument your position.

So unless you start contributing meaningfully to the discussion, I will stop replying to your comments because I'm not interesting in teaching you basic things that you should have learned in school. And I am especially not going to waste my time with someone who cannot comprehend what I am typing.
 
You keep doing this thing that is very irritating and that is you don't respond to the entirety of the comment and just segment one thing out and that's that.

I respond to your most relevant point(s) to this discussion.

the issue that you were wrong on slavery.
the issue that you didn't know about the murghals and the muslim conquest
the issue that you don't accept all implications about westernization and colonialism
the issue of you trying to equate a religion with a culture as if attacking one is attacking the people or something... I don't know because you fail, every time, to argument your position.

Most of these points are irrelevant to YOUR point. Which was that karma and slavery/caste are inexorably linked. I've addressed the point about British colonization and its effects on the caste system.

I have no interest in talking about slavery beyond what has already been discussed.
 
I respond to your most relevant point(s) to this discussion.

Most of these points are irrelevant to YOUR point. Which was that karma and slavery/caste are inexorably linked. I've addressed the point about British colonization and its effects on the caste system.

I have no interest in talking about slavery beyond what has already been discussed.

Well you made claims that are not true from a website that is demonstrably full of crap like the one you linked about Buddha.

You try and provide rebuttle to my statements yet you clearly don't bother to read them.

And karma and dharma are linked to the caste system.
What is karma? Here's from verifiable sources.
Hindu Karma: Beliefs on Karma in Hinduism - ReligionFacts
The purpose of life in Hinduism is thus to minimize bad karma in order to enjoy better fortune in this life and achieve a better rebirth in the next [...]

Various methods to attain moksha are taught by different schools, but most include avoiding attachment to impermanent things, carrying out one's duties
Do good deeds and in the next life you'll enjoy greater benefits. What does this mean?

The Purpose of Life in Hinduism - ReligionFacts
In this context, it means one's destiny or purpose. In general, it refers to one's vocation or career, which is often defined by class and family. If a Hindu man's father is a tire maker, his dharma is probably to make tires, too. Traditionally, the dharma of most women has been to be a housewife and a mother.

Your purpose in life is to be whatever you born into to be but you not... no... no... it's what your parents are. They define your fate.
Economically, this made sense in the past because if you were born to blacksmith you wanted your children to be blacksmiths too so you could on from father to son the knowledge. But it also has the bad side effects. If you're born into a family or, I don't know... slaves or ah... peasants or whatever, your goal in life is to carry that our OR ELSE your ass is on the line.

See how it all ties in together? See how dharma and karma tie in together with the caste system to create a perfect instrument of oppression?
You have a caste system. Children born into a caste stay there. the ones on top will always be on top and everyone has to stay where they are coz that's what the gods want. And if you are a good boy and work all your life, you'll be reborn into a higher position. Coz dharma tells you that you need to fulfill your duties and that the purpose of life is to do those duties... and karma tells you you'll rack up + signs in the gods notebook if you do and advance to the next level. It's so comical its almost suitable to be in a video game. It'll be a boring and stupid video game but it'll still be one. Who wants to play a farmer for a lifetime, die, and hope that when you respawn you'll have enough XP points to get a warrior hero. Ofc, it's not comical because it's real life and it sucks.


Now ofc, you didn't address what I said about the British, you just claim you did. Your statements were wrong.
And now with the knowledge above, you see why the old caste system just didn't hold up. You needed people in new jobs. Postal workers. secretaries. railroad workers. factory workers. public officials. etc. 1st generation of new people. But the caste system is stagnant. Soo.. the maharajas changed it to a new caste system that worked for them to continue to be rich and happy and one to be suitable for the westernization process that brought great wealth and opportunity to India.

EDIT: Also, another point I'd like to make on the issue of hinduism/ It's generally a dishonest religion that tries to market itself as being "enlightened" when in reality it has just about to do with enlightenment as a tick has to do with dental healthcare. On the internet there are these websites, like this one:
http://hinduism.about.com/od/basics/a/dharma.htm

that present a false view of hinduism. A sugar-coated one. A very polished turd view where they kinda sorta tell you what its about but never the issue of what I described with dharma and karma and the caste system which is kinda the point of hinduism. How else are you going to score XP points with the gods and get to the next level if you don't fulfill your duties according to whatever caste you're born into and be a good boy and not touch the holy cow? It's a deceptive religion that takes in many gullible people. Much like buddhism. There too is another sugar-coated disaster but again, this is just another issue.
 
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Well you made claims that are not true from a website that is demonstrably full of crap like the one you linked about Buddha.

Which claim is full of crap? Try to avoid the word salad and your personal spin on it.
 
I'd say Catholicism (the first and original christianity), Judaism, and Islam are the main religions of Abraham. There is no one religion of Abraham. Only a jackass who is self centered would believe in that crap.

I meant it in the sense of the religion that Abraham himself practiced. Abraham believed in one religion and was not all at the same time a believer in Roman catholic version of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, all of which have contradictory beliefs. These religions descended from the pure vine. The LDS religion is the restoration of the pure vine.
 
Which claim is full of crap? Try to avoid the word salad and your personal spin on it.

see, just as suspected.
You can't even hold a conversation on the topic of hinduism.

The best you can do is ask stupid questions and never reply to the meat of the argument. I'm wasting my time on you and my time is more valuable then yours. If your next reply won't have some meat to it then I won't be continuing the conversation.
 
see, just as suspected.
You can't even hold a conversation on the topic of hinduism.

The best you can do is ask stupid questions and never reply to the meat of the argument. I'm wasting my time on you and my time is more valuable then yours. If your next reply won't have some meat to it then I won't be continuing the conversation.

To be honest, I'm not interested in your contribution to this conversation based on your original post and following posts. I tried to be polite about it.
 
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