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Christian secularists

What is your position on confessionalism vs. secularism?

  • I'm a Christian, the government should support Christianity in a meaningful way

    Votes: 4 14.8%

  • I'm a Christian, the government should nominally have Christianity as the official religion

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • I'm a Christian, the government should be secular but in practice give preference to Christianity

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • I'm a Christian, the government should be strictly secular

    Votes: 5 18.5%

  • I'm not Christian, the government should support my religion in a meaningful way

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • I'm not Christian, the government should nominally have my religion as the official religion

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • I'm not Christian, the government should be secular but in practice give preference to my religion

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • I'm not Christian, the government should be strictly secular

    Votes: 15 55.6%

  • tuna sandwich

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • other

    Votes: 3 11.1%
  • Total voters
    27
  • This poll will close: .
Paleocon said:
If a country is trying to reclaim land stolen from it, that it has never surrendered the right to, then it is justified, as are any countries that wish to assist it.
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What does that have to do with God and the Crusades?

Do you live in the US?
 
Paleocon said:
That's what happened in the First Crusade.

Yes. Why?
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No reason in particular. I just don't believe in forcing anyone to believe any religion. I damn sure don't believe in killing for God. If your God or mine or anyone's God needs to threaten people with harm so that it might prosper there is much evil in it.

Do you live in the US?
 
Risky Thicket said:
No reason in particular. I just don't believe in forcing anyone to believe any religion. I damn sure don't believe in killing for God. If your God or mine or anyone's God needs to threaten people with harm so that it might prosper there is much evil in it.
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Neither do I.

Do you believe there is such a thing as just war?

Define evil.
 
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Paleocon said:
The syllabus of errors (or more precisely the contradictory of the statements therein) is Catholic teaching. I don't have anything against them personally, I just find it absurd that they would hold such a position even though it is directly contrary to an orthodox understanding of Christian social teaching.
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It isn't Catholic teaching, it's the non doctrinal views of a Pope held in the mid 19th century. Views that have since changed with the aide of healthy dissent from Fr. John Murray in the 1950's who stood up against that idea and believed that everyone had a right to religious freedom and a vote by the worlds bishops in 1965 acknowledged that and declared this:

"This synod declares that the human person has a right to religious freedom. This freedom means that all men are to be immune from coercion on the part of individuals, social groups, or any human power . . . This synod further declares that the right to religious freedom has its foundation in the very dignity of the human person, as this dignity is known through the revealed word of God and reason itself." Catholic dissent: When wrong turns out to be right | USCatholic.org
 
Paleocon said:
Neither do I.
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And people who refuse to comply with law are not ultimately threatened with violence?

Do you believe there is such a thing as just war?
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Good question. Religious wars, no. None. Otherwise, possibly, but damned few.

Define evil.
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Evil is the absence of love.


Do you live in the US?
 
Monserrat said:
It isn't Catholic teaching, it's the non doctrinal views of a Pope held in the mid 19th century. Views that have since changed with the aide of healthy dissent from Fr. John Murray in the 1950's who stood up against that idea and believed that everyone had a right to religious freedom and a vote by the worlds bishops in 1965 acknowledged that and declared this:

"This synod declares that the human person has a right to religious freedom. This freedom means that all men are to be immune from coercion on the part of individuals, social groups, or any human power . . . This synod further declares that the right to religious freedom has its foundation in the very dignity of the human person, as this dignity is known through the revealed word of God and reason itself." Catholic dissent: When wrong turns out to be right | USCatholic.org
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It was a condemnation. As in no Catholic can rightly hold the proposition condemned.

You couldn't find a less heterodox site? In any case, the document you cite explicitly states that the traditional doctrine of the Church on the duty of the state is unchanged.

Risky Thicket said:
And people who refuse to comply with law are not ultimately threatened with violence?



Good question. Religious wars, no. None. Otherwise, possibly, but damned few.



Evil is the absence of love.


Do you live in the US?
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Ultimately they are. The law wouldn't make conversion obligatory.

So if a country is fighting an otherwise just war, it's unjust if the land is of religious importance?

Then in God there is no evil.

Yes.
 
Where is the option for a government that has no role in religion but recognizes the rule of natural law? That is, the basis of morality is understood but religious tolerance is accepted?
 
phattonez said:
Where is the option for a government that has no role in religion but recognizes the rule of natural law?
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Right next to anything in Catholic social teaching that suggests that the state does not have a duty to respect the divine and ecclesiastical positive law.

phattonez said:
That is, the basis of morality is understood but religious tolerance is accepted?
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A confessional state is compatible with religious toleration.
 
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