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Handing Out Bibles to Students

Bodi

Bodi

Just waiting for my set...
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I live in New Zealand now... but each year these Christian guys come to the school and at assembly they hand out Bibles to every student. I will talk to our principal today about it for the first time because the issue pisses me off. When my kids get into high school I will also let the Christian guys know how I feel about it. What are your thoughts?
 
Bodhisattva said:
I live in New Zealand now... but each year these Christian guys come to the school and at assembly they hand out Bibles to every student. I will talk to our principal today about it for the first time because the issue pisses me off. When my kids get into high school I will also let the Christian guys know how I feel about it. What are your thoughts?
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Don't bring American values to your new society. I don't know what the deal is in New Zealand but it may be entirely permissible.

For instance, in one of the Canadian provinces they have a Public School System and a Public Catholic School System. The religion is right there, out front, and it's publicly supported. So all through the land they have these public schools and these catholic schools clustered near each other. The Catholic schools offer religious instruction paid for by the taxpayers. It's always funny to watch Canadians who are very Americanized in their beliefs bitch and moan about this and then some Canadian who knows what's up shuts them down by citing law and Charter and tradition and history and whatever.

My point is that if this is going on in New Zealand your American panties getting all twisted in a knot may not actually be good enough grounds to complain.
 
Your kid is under no obligation to take it, let alone read it. Others, however, might want to... I suggest you not deprive them of an offered free gift just because you don't wish to have it.
 
RiverDad said:
Don't bring American values to your new society. I don't know what the deal is in New Zealand but it may be entirely permissible.

For instance, in one of the Canadian provinces they have a Public School System and a Public Catholic School System. The religion is right there, out front, and it's publicly supported. So all through the land they have these public schools and these catholic schools clustered near each other. The Catholic schools offer religious instruction paid for by the taxpayers. It's always funny to watch Canadians who are very Americanized in their beliefs bitch and moan about this and then some Canadian who knows what's up shuts them down by citing law and Charter and tradition and history and whatever.

My point is that if this is going on in New Zealand your American panties getting all twisted in a knot may not actually be good enough grounds to complain.
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It has nothing to do with nationality and everything to do with good manners. Pushing your religion on children without the parent's knowledge is down right ****ing rude. I will let you know more about what I find out though...
 
Completely inappropriate.
 
Bodhisattva said:
It has nothing to do with nationality and everything to do with good manners. Pushing your religion on children without the parent's knowledge is down right ****ing rude. I will let you know more about what I find out though...
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How did this practice manage to survive for so long in New Zealand until you came along? Is it culturally accepted there? I don't know the answers to these questions but I find it odd that your American sensibilities are upset but apparently the sensibilities of native Kiwis are just fine with this. If I were in your shoes, I'd roll with it and wait for a native to object but I'm also of the mind that if I move to a new society, then I should be the one who is bending to the local customs.
 
Bodhisattva said:
I live in New Zealand now... but each year these Christian guys come to the school and at assembly they hand out Bibles to every student. I will talk to our principal today about it for the first time because the issue pisses me off. When my kids get into high school I will also let the Christian guys know how I feel about it. What are your thoughts?
Click to expand...

The fear would be that a student might feel ostracized if they personally don't follow the faith, and it's just a dumb waste of paper otherwise. What kid sits down a reads a bible just because someone handed it to them? What could they possibly think they're getting out of it?
 
phildozer9121 said:
The fear would be that a student might feel ostracized if they personally don't follow the faith, and it's just a dumb waste of paper otherwise. What kid sits down a reads a bible just because someone handed it to them? What could they possibly think they're getting out of it?
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Salvation, perhaps. :)
 
Bodhisattva said:
I live in New Zealand now... but each year these Christian guys come to the school and at assembly they hand out Bibles to every student. I will talk to our principal today about it for the first time because the issue pisses me off. When my kids get into high school I will also let the Christian guys know how I feel about it. What are your thoughts?
Click to expand...

so censorship is a GOOD thing.

God help anyone who might actually read it....even if they do and their opinion is that it's bull****.

No, we can't have anyone exposed to an idea you don't like...especially if its Christian
 
New Zealand:

  • New Zealand’s head of state or monarch must declare that they are a Protestant Christian and will uphold the Protestant succession according to the declaration required by the Accession Declaration Act 1910.
  • Section 3 of the Act of Settlement 1700 requires that the King or Queen of New Zealand must be an Anglican.
  • The Title of the Queen of New Zealand includes the statement "by the grace of God" and the title Defender of the Faith
How can the head of state be a defender of the faith if there is no faith to defend?

Also,

New Zealand's parliament opens its proceedings with a specifically Christian prayer. In 2007 parliament voted to retain the Christian prayer.[54]

In New Zealand blasphemous libel is a crime,​
 
Goshin said:
Your kid is under no obligation to take it, let alone read it. Others, however, might want to... I suggest you not deprive them of an offered free gift just because you don't wish to have it.
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I don't mind it on off-times like free periods or something, but not during an assembly which is an official school function where kids HAVE to attend and be subject to this.

My guess is most people would be against the Koran being handed out in an official school function like this.
 
Here are the regulations from a FAQ put out by their Human Rights Commission:

Is religion in primary schools permissible under New Zealand law?

Yes. Under the Education Act 1964 primary schools can provide religious instruction and religious observance, but only under certain conditions. The New Zealand Bill of Rights Act 1990 (Bill of Rights) permits religious instruction and observance in schools as long as it is done in a way that does not discriminate against anyone who doesn’t share that belief.​

What happens in state secondary schools?

Teaching in secondary schools does not have to be explicitly secular. Under the Education Act 1989 (Section 72) Boards of Trustees are accorded considerable discretion about what they choose to do by way of providing religious instruction. However, secondary schools are required to comply with the Bill of Rights, so if they do provide religious instruction or observance then it must be in a non-discriminatory way and pupils must be able to opt out if they wish.​

An example:

A student’s parents request that their child stay out of assembly because the Lord’s Prayer is recited. The student’s class sits together at the front of the hall. She asks to be excused from the whole assembly, or to be given a seat at the back, but is refused, so she has to walk the length of the School Hall to reach the exit, and then walk back to her seat at the conclusion of the prayer. The student feels stigmatised as a result, and complains that the other students tease her about it afterwards. The student and her parents claim they are being discriminated against because they are atheists. The school’s defence is that its actions are justified as reasonable in “a free and democratic society” under the Bill of Rights (section 5). In deciding whether a Board’s action is justified it will be considered whether:

• the restriction on the student’s rights is sufficiently important to warrant overriding them
• the Board’s actions are in proportion to the objective.​

Are school chaplains exempt from these restrictions?

No. The rules define a standard of behaviour that is required from everyone. A school chaplain must make sure they don’t make students feel unsafe or discriminated against, just like anyone else.​

---
If schools are permitted to instruct in religion and recite the Lord's Prayer and actually have school Chaplains on staff, then I'm going to guess that they're not going to find a group handing out Bibles to be offensive at all.
 
Goshin said:
Your kid is under no obligation to take it, let alone read it. Others, however, might want to... I suggest you not deprive them of an offered free gift just because you don't wish to have it.
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It's not a free gift, it's a trojan horse. It's handed out before their peers, making it difficult to refuse. That's restricting the non-Christian students' rights
 
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TheNextEra said:
I don't mind it on off-times like free periods or something, but not during an assembly which is an official school function where kids HAVE to attend and be subject to this.

My guess is most people would be against the Koran being handed out in an official school function like this.
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American values on this issue don't translate well around the world.
 
Goshin said:
Salvation, perhaps. :)
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Mmmm my verbage was confusing there, I meant to ask what would the people handing out the bibles think they're getting out of it, not the kids themselves. It seems to me that very few would do much more than immediately throw that bible away, and if they were a christian, they would already have a bible
 
RiverDad said:
How did this practice manage to survive for so long in New Zealand until you came along? Is it culturally accepted there? I don't know the answers to these questions but I find it odd that your American sensibilities are upset but apparently the sensibilities of native Kiwis are just fine with this. If I were in your shoes, I'd roll with it and wait for a native to object but I'm also of the mind that if I move to a new society, then I should be the one who is bending to the local customs.
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I think that you are reading too much into it. Yes, this is a Christian dominated society and it was the Gideon's that were here today. I am in this society and accept it... don't worry. I also think that times are a changing because each Kiwi I talked about this with today seemed to look at it from a different mind set when I brought it up.
 
phildozer9121 said:
The fear would be that a student might feel ostracized if they personally don't follow the faith, and it's just a dumb waste of paper otherwise. What kid sits down a reads a bible just because someone handed it to them? What could they possibly think they're getting out of it?
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Surprisingly... some kids were doing exactly that. :lol:
 
Fearandloathing said:
so censorship is a GOOD thing.

God help anyone who might actually read it....even if they do and their opinion is that it's bull****.

No, we can't have anyone exposed to an idea you don't like...especially if its Christian
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How in the world is that censorship? :lol:
 
I wonder how excited this group would be if they were copies of the Qu'ran.
 
Sababa said:
I wonder how excited this group would be if they were copies of the Qu'ran.
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That is what I have asked them here...
 
Bodhisattva said:
I think that you are reading too much into it. Yes, this is a Christian dominated society and it was the Gideon's that were here today. I am in this society and accept it... don't worry. I also think that times are a changing because each Kiwi I talked about this with today seemed to look at it from a different mind set when I brought it up.
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How would you feel if Greenpeace was outside handing out leaflets? How about a socialist political party? How about anti-Nuclear protesters or ant-whaling protestors?

Religion is just a set of ideas, just like the above. I'm not so sure that children need to be treated like fragile hothouse flowers blocked off from all ideas. Religion is a part of society, just like environmentalism is, same with odious feminism. Feminists should be able to yammer at passing students and hand out their leaflets.
 
Sababa said:
I wonder how excited this group would be if they were copies of the Qu'ran.
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New Zealand is not an Islamic country.

What is it with Americans who believe that our values about religious issues are applicable all over the world. America was founded in reaction to a distaste for the religious ideals of other societies. And even during our founding the principles of religious diversity were anchored in a bedrock of Christianity. We weren't out in North Africa recruiting Moors to come to America to practice their Muslim faith.

So it doesn't matter what native Kiwis think about the Koran being handed out, they're a Christian nation and they don't have to play favorites or play equal. The rules seem to SUIT THEM.

Damn, let's not be Ugly Americans all over the world. Didn't we create a ****storm in the Middle East trying to transform Iraq into little America.
 
RiverDad said:
How would you feel if Greenpeace was outside handing out leaflets? How about a socialist political party? How about anti-Nuclear protesters or ant-whaling protestors?

Religion is just a set of ideas, just like the above. I'm not so sure that children need to be treated like fragile hothouse flowers blocked off from all ideas. Religion is a part of society, just like environmentalism is, same with odious feminism. Feminists should be able to yammer at passing students and hand out their leaflets.
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The difference being those are not extremely personal life ideologies but loose political stances...
 
phildozer9121 said:
The difference being those are not extremely personal life ideologies but loose political stances...
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A kid whose Dad works at the nuke plant might feel differently, in the instance of the anti-nuke literature, just as a f'rinstance. :)
 
phildozer9121 said:
The difference being those are not extremely personal life ideologies but loose political stances...
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There is no difference. I'm an Atheist and I'm more offended when I have liberal scripture shoved down my throat than when I see religious texts or discussions. These issues are always in the eye of the beholder. It's fine that you don't like religion and love liberal nonsense, but I'm of the opposite position.

In the end religion is just another set of ideas, just like politics or environmentalism. Very important to some people, utter nonsense to others, and deeply offensive to still others.
 
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