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Why Science vs. Religion Cannot Be Discusses (Argued)

rhinefire said:
The first obvious reason is of course the two sides will never agree. But that aside Neil de Grasse Tyson said something on the Daily Show that struck me. He said "history" is a written story of man by man. This to me cannot be questioned. Science is as Carl Sagan put it "all that was, is and will ever be". This means science goes way back long before man encompassing everything. Now trying to sidestep the age of the universe issue (6,800 yrs. versus 13.8 billion) one can easily separate the two like night and day. Science can be studied in a totally different way than history including avoiding man all together. I think where things start to go "wrong" (for lack of a better word) is when history is entered in to science. It is at that single, isolated point where arguments begin. If man blows himself up or when the Sun expands and engulfs the Earth as it will then all traces of man with all it's history will be gone but science will live on.
Now I am aware of issues or points here that are subject to religious counter points but since there have been so many religious beliefs throughout "history" which one should be chosen to use for a counterpoint? Keep in mind few ,if any of the religions are based on science to argue against "science". Bottom line; we have heard every discussion, debate and argument and none of them have changed on e thing on either side. I hand it to science because science will never claim it knows until it is proven so we have scientists saying there indeed may be a single creator.............we simply do not know........................yet.
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Gods use of science and math = flawless
Mans use of science and math--flawed to the core.
There is no way out of a big bang( trillions and trillions of atoms tossed in utter kaos yet all fall perfectly into place---0% chance
Gods use of math and science= creation.

Doesn't this about sum it up?
 
Martyrdom is about the validity of witnessing. Multiple account witnessing is another way to validate a witnessing. Basically, no witnessing can be more valid then those backed by both a multiple account and a martyrdom (except that in modern days we have photos, videos, voice records and so forth). That is to say, there's no other way which can make a witnessing more valid. To put it another way, even when Christianity is true, the one way to make its witnessing valid is through a multiple account and martyrdom backed witnessing.

A kind of truth which is similar to Christianity is human history. The term "history" could be from "his story". History is basically from human witnessing. That is, you put faith on what have been written down by the human witnesses regarded as the historians. The truth of an event is more valid if its supported by a multiple account witnessing, that is, historians from the different sources mentioned about the same event. Still the bottom line is that, if there's no faith then there's no truth. This is basically the nature of what history is.

Actually, the truth of our daily news behaves almost the same. We rely on our media to get to a truth. We put faith on what have been said by multiple accounts of reporters from various sources.
 
Hawkins said:
Martyrdom is about the validity of witnessing. Multiple account witnessing is another way to validate a witnessing. Basically, no witnessing can be more valid then those backed by both a multiple account and a martyrdom (except that in modern days we have photos, videos, voice records and so forth). That is to say, there's no other way which can make a witnessing more valid. To put it another way, even when Christianity is true, the one way to make its witnessing valid is through a multiple account and martyrdom backed witnessing.

A kind of truth which is similar to Christianity is human history. The term "history" could be from "his story". History is basically from human witnessing. That is, you put faith on what have been written down by the human witnesses regarded as the historians. The truth of an event is more valid if its supported by a multiple account witnessing, that is, historians from the different sources mentioned about the same event. Still the bottom line is that, if there's no faith then there's no truth. This is basically the nature of what history is.

Actually, the truth of our daily news behaves almost the same. We rely on our media to get to a truth. We put faith on what have been said by multiple accounts of reporters from various sources.
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Eye witness accounts are notoriously unreliable. I'll go with scientific observation and experimentation every time. If the eye witness says the driver looked sober, but the blood test says .12, then I'll take the number over the witness every time.
 
kjw47 said:
Gods use of science and math = flawless
Mans use of science and math--flawed to the core.
There is no way out of a big bang( trillions and trillions of atoms tossed in utter kaos yet all fall perfectly into place---0% chance
Gods use of math and science= creation.

Doesn't this about sum it up?
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The fact that you think evolution claims everything just randomly fell perfectly into place, shows that you have absolutely no idea what evolution is or how it works. Keep living in ignorance with your bible shielding you from facts and reason.

I mean how ****ing lazy is it that you won't even learn what the other side of the argument is?
 
RabidAlpaca said:
The fact that you think evolution claims everything just randomly fell perfectly into place, shows that you have absolutely no idea what evolution is or how it works. Keep living in ignorance with your bible shielding you from facts and reason.

I mean how ****ing lazy is it that you won't even learn what the other side of the argument is?
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I do know the other side---- A theory--= 0 proof. unprovable----

Gods word is proven truth.
 
kjw47 said:
I do know the other side---- A theory--= 0 proof. unprovable----

Gods word is proven truth.
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No, it's not, and you haven't proven anything your god has said to be true. You fail. I'll be here if you'd like to try to prove you have evidence.

And my original statement still stands, you don't seem to know ANYTHING about evolution, at all. And FYI, gravity and electrons are also "theories", so if you'd like to launch yourself off a building or stick a fork in an electrical socket, please do.
 
rhinefire said:
....when the Sun expands and engulfs the Earth as it will then all traces of man with all it's history will be gone .....
....
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Are you sure. That is a long way off and a lot can happen between now and then.

;)
 
RabidAlpaca said:
No, it's not, and you haven't proven anything your god has said to be true. You fail. I'll be here if you'd like to try to prove you have evidence.

And my original statement still stands, you don't seem to know ANYTHING about evolution, at all. And FYI, gravity and electrons are also "theories", so if you'd like to launch yourself off a building or stick a fork in an electrical socket, please do.
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Gravity and electricity--is reality---in this world anyways--- the big bang--unprovable---Gods creation--Gold. Science has proven a lot of Gods word as truth. Besides there are things in the ot--mortals couldn't possibly have known back then.
 
kjw47 said:
Gravity and electricity--is reality---in this world anyways--- the big bang--unprovable---Gods creation--Gold. Science has proven a lot of Gods word as truth. Besides there are things in the ot--mortals couldn't possibly have known back then.
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Such as...............................................?
 
kjw47 said:
Gravity and electricity--is reality---in this world anyways--- the big bang--unprovable---Gods creation--Gold. Science has proven a lot of Gods word as truth. Besides there are things in the ot--mortals couldn't possibly have known back then.
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We're not talking about the big bang theory, we're talking about evolution, which you've shown over and over again that you don't even know how it functions in the slightest, then you try to change the subject. Little ridiculous isn't it?
 
kjw47 said:
Gravity and electricity--is reality---in this world anyways--- the big bang--unprovable---Gods creation--Gold. Science has proven a lot of Gods word as truth. Besides there are things in the ot--mortals couldn't possibly have known back then.
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Gravity is theory, you just said theory = 0 proof, so you must not believe in gravity.

hahahah

Big Bang has plenty of support, but perhaps you can do a better job explaining the observables. Don't forget, you have to predict the hydrogen energy levels exactly too with your new theory. So have at it, you get 1 million dollars for the Nobel Prize, so there's more incentive.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
We're not talking about the big bang theory, we're talking about evolution, which you've shown over and over again that you don't even know how it functions in the slightest, then you try to change the subject. Little ridiculous isn't it?
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You believe what you want to---Genesis 1:1--In the beginning, God created the heavens and earth.( With precision usage of math and science, wisdom, power,love, justice.)
 
Ikari said:
Gravity is theory, you just said theory = 0 proof, so you must not believe in gravity.

hahahah

Big Bang has plenty of support, but perhaps you can do a better job explaining the observables. Don't forget, you have to predict the hydrogen energy levels exactly too with your new theory. So have at it, you get 1 million dollars for the Nobel Prize, so there's more incentive.
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Gravity proves its reality--24/7
 
Manc Skipper said:
Such as...............................................?
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Worldly --had no understanding of the earth being round--they thought it was flat until past the 1300,s plus-- The ot teaches it is a circle or sphere. for one.
 
kjw47 said:
Worldly --had no understanding of the earth being round--they thought it was flat until past the 1300,s plus-- The ot teaches it is a circle or sphere. for one.
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Wrong, Eratosthenes of Cyrene was the first to calculate the circumference of the earth about 2250 years ago (~240 BC). You're estimate is off by almost a century.
 
Ikari said:
Wrong, Eratosthenes of Cyrene was the first to calculate the circumference of the earth about 2250 years ago (~240 BC). You're estimate is off by almost a century.
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Those who claim to be servants of God taught--a flat world. Those who knew God in the ot, knew the earth was round. The ones who taught it was flat---don't know God.
 
Ikari said:
And so does the Big Bang. Less you can explain the observables better. Can you?
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A big what? You mean a big bang where trillions x trillions of atoms are thrown about in utter kaos yet every one lands in the perfect spot to create a universe that works perfectly--- 0% chance of that being reality. God created everything.
 
kjw47 said:
You believe what you want to---Genesis 1:1--In the beginning, God created the heavens and earth.( With precision usage of math and science, wisdom, power,love, justice.)
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You can prove gravitational theory easily. Just jump off the roof, and see if gravity brings you back to Earth. You can prove evolutionary theory, too. Just get a pathogen that has evolved resistance to penicillin and see if that antibiotic will cure you. As for the big bang theory, that is something I don't even pretend to understand, but evolution and gravity I do.
 
kjw47 said:
A big what? You mean a big bang where trillions x trillions of atoms are thrown about in utter kaos yet every one lands in the perfect spot to create a universe that works perfectly--- 0% chance of that being reality. God created everything.
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For our form of life, things are pretty ideal. But if things were different, life would just look differently. Why would you assume life wouldn't evolve to the particularities of our universe?
 
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