Is Christianity an off-guard religion?

tosca1 said:

What do we pray about our persecutors? Do we pray for their death, or misfortune? No.

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What if one shoots first and pray for the persecutor's soul salvation later? :mrgreen:

Quote Originally Posted by Logicman
There's nothing misconstrued about the government waging war against evil-doers. Romans chapter 13 is one of the places in scripture where the government is seen as God's agent of wrath against evil-doers.

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RabidAlpaca said:

Let's assume for a second that's true. Why do you only want the government going against gays and not also against those guilty of gluttony and lust? Shouldn't we be shutting down all the fast food and junk food? 40% of Americans are obese, and gluttony is one of the 7 deadly sins. Why is it not ok to legislate against the sins you're guilty of?

And just FYI, you sound exactly like the taliban.

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Nonsense.

It's not "government against gays," it's a government that doesn't legitimize gay marriage or government-approved gay unions.

And I don't recall God destroying a fast food restaurant. That is, unless there happened to be one in Sodom and Gomorrah.

Logicman said:

Nonsense.

It's not "government against gays," it's a government that doesn't legitimize gay marriage or government-approved gay unions.

And I don't recall God destroying a fast food restaurant. That is, unless there happened to be one in Sodom and Gomorrah.

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Ahahahaha! So there it is. You take one passage out of the bible and ignore the rest. All you've done is label homosexuality a worse sin than all of your sins, and of course we can't legislate against your sins, as that would be insane, right?

I would be able to at least partially respect you if you were consistent and wanted all sins legislated against. This "I pick what sins are worse than others" is just too much.

tosca1 said:

Taliban? I don't think so. As I understand it, the taliban kill and maim people for sinning.

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The taliban thinks government and religion should be the same thing. They ignore what the koran actually says and use their power to enforce the laws they like and ignore the ones they don't, just like Logicman.

So what about you? Do you want the government to be a christian theocracy? If so, do you want all sin legislated against or just the ones you find personally icky?

RabidAlpaca said:

Ahahahaha! So there it is. You take one passage out of the bible and ignore the rest.

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Nope. That's your spin. I put them in the proper perspective. You have no clue about that perspective because you don't have the Spirit of God (1 Corinthians 2:14).

RabidAlpaca said:

The taliban thinks government and religion should be the same thing. They ignore what the koran actually says and use their power to enforce the laws they like and ignore the ones they don't, just like Logicman.

So what about you? Do you want the government to be a christian theocracy? If so, do you want all sin legislated against or just the ones you find personally icky?

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Show me a post where any Christian - myself included - in this forum has ever proposed a theocracy in this day and age?

Where's the beef, RabidA?

Logicman said:

Nope. That's your spin. I put them in the proper perspective. You have no clue about that perspective because you don't have the Spirit of God (1 Corinthians 2:14).



Show me a post where any Christian - myself included - in this forum has ever proposed a theocracy in this day and age?

Where's the beef, RabidA?

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Holy **** are you serious right now? Let's start here:

Logicman said:

There's nothing misconstrued about the government waging war against evil-doers. Romans chapter 13 is one of the places in scripture where the government is seen as God's agent of wrath against evil-doers.

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You just said that you want the government to wage war against evil doers. That is literally the definition of a theocracy and exactly what the taliban did when it was running Afghanistan.

The messed up thing really is though that just want them to wage war against people you think are evil doers. You label homosexuality as a sin worth "raging wrath" over, but other sins like lust and gluttony you don't think are bad enough. Why is gluttony ok but homosexuality isn't? They're both sins, and the former is one of the 7 deadly sins.

RabidAlpaca said:

You just said that you want the government to wage war against evil doers. That is literally the definition of a theocracy and exactly what the taliban did when it was running Afghanistan.

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Nonsense. Non-Taliban governments wage war against evildoers all the time.

RabidAlpaca said:

The messed up thing really is though that just want them to wage war against people you think are evil doers. You label homosexuality as a sin worth "raging wrath" over...

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Are you trying to say that I believe the Bible says to wage war against gays? Go ahead. Be brave and spit it out. That would be a lie and another one of your hysterical inventions.

RabidAlpaca said:

Why is gluttony ok but homosexuality isn't? They're both sins, and the former is one of the 7 deadly sins.

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Gay sex is a moral sin that people were to be put to death for in the Old Testament. Gluttony is a dietary sin, the results of which are that the person destroys himself. Besides, I must have missed the GLUTTONY PRIDE PARADES. :lamo

Logicman said:

Nonsense. Non-Taliban governments wage war against evildoers all the time.



Are you trying to say that I believe the Bible says to wage war against gays? Go ahead. Be brave and spit it out. That would be a lie and another one of your hysterical inventions.



Gay sex is a moral sin that people were to be put to death for in the Old Testament. Gluttony is a dietary sin, the results of which are that the person destroys himself. Besides, I must have missed the GLUTTONY PRIDE PARADES. :lamo

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See? You're doing exactly what I accused you of. Homosexuality is far "worse" than your sin, and that's why governments should fight it but not yours.

Must be nice to twist your religion to fit whatever your personal bias is.

Canell said:

Forgive all, pray for your enemies, do not revenge, turn the other cheek, be peaceful as a dove...
Is Christianity a 'off-guard' religion, what do you think?
Does Christianity sweep self-defence under the rug?

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I'm a Christian and I don't know what "off-guard" means.

RabidAlpaca said:

See? You're doing exactly what I accused you of. Homosexuality is far "worse" than your sin, and that's why governments should fight it but not yours.

Must be nice to twist your religion to fit whatever your personal bias is.

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You know, if you had been living in Sodom and Gomorrah on the day it was destroyed you MIGHT see things in their proper perspective. But I doubt it.

Logicman said:

You know, if you had been living in Sodom and Gomorrah on the day it was destroyed you MIGHT see things in their proper perspective. But I doubt it.

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And that perspective is that there are only a few sins that matter and the rest can be ignored?

Jerry said:

I'm a Christian and I don't know what "off-guard" means.

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Please, see post #13 in this thread and excuse my English. It's not my mother tongue.

Canell said:

Please, see post #13 in this thread and excuse my English. It's not my mother tongue.

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Then I would say Christianity is not an off-guard faith. A religion of piece would't threaten you with eternal hell-fire. God calls for war and mass killings several times in the Bible, execution is the punishment for many sins, Jesus says he did not come to bring piece but a sword and to turn father against son, Jesus hand-makes a bullwhip to drive the money changers out of the temple. Turn the other cheek has nothing to do with looking the other way. It's about challenging someone who insults or assaults you in such a way that they show you respect in the process.

Logicman said:

Gay sex is a moral sin that people were to be put to death for in the Old Testament. Gluttony is a dietary sin, the results of which are that the person destroys himself. Besides, I must have missed the GLUTTONY PRIDE PARADES. :lamo

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Breaking the Sabath is a Capital crime in Judaism.

Usury is an "abomination" in the OT ....

You know, if you had been living in Sodom and Gomorrah on the day it was destroyed you MIGHT see things in their proper perspective. But I doubt it.

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Ezekiel 16:19
49 This was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy.

There are some People here that are bible literate (not just right wing website literate as you are).

RGacky3 said:

Breaking the Sabath is a Capital crime in Judaism.

Usury is an "abomination" in the OT ....

Ezekiel 16:19
49 This was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy.

There are some People here that are bible literate (not just right wing website literate as you are).

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Jude 7 shows the addition sin in Sodom and Gomorrah of sexual immorality and perversion.

Canell said:

Forgive all, pray for your enemies, do not revenge, turn the other cheek, be peaceful as a dove...
Is Christianity a 'off-guard' religion, what do you think?
Does Christianity sweep self-defence under the rug?

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When you define Christianity for your purpose, rather than permit Christ to define you for His-

“Suppose we heard an unknown man spoken of by many men. Suppose we were puzzled to hear that some men said he was too tall and some too short; some objected to his fatness, some lamented his leanness; some thought him too dark, and some too fair. One explanation would be that he might be an odd shape. But there is another explanation. He might be the right shape. Outrageously tall men might feel him to be short. Very short men might feel him to be tall. Old bucks who are growing stout might consider him insufficiently filled out; old beaux who were growing thin might feel that he expanded beyond the narrow lines of elegance. Perhaps the Swedes called him a dark man, while Negroes considered him distinctly blonde. Perhaps this extraordinary thing is really the ordinary thing; at least the normal thing, the centre. Perhaps after all it is Christianity that is sane and all its critics that are mad in various ways.” Chesterton – Orthodoxy

Northern Light said:

If you follow what Jesus said only - which IMO would make people true Christians if they did - then yes, it's an off guard religion.

Unfortunately, the Bible contains any number of contradictory ideas, and arm-chair theologians will use that to support their hate-on for their fellow humans.

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What is much worse than arm-chair theologians are people who hate religion, yet attempt to interpret the Bible and make the proper application.

Texmex said:

What is much worse than arm-chair theologians are people who hate religion, yet attempt to interpret the Bible and make the proper application.

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Fortunately both types of people are fairly transparent.

You know that Jesus told the Apostles to carry swords with them when they traveled (to guard against robbers and the like)?

Canell said:

Forgive all, pray for your enemies, do not revenge, turn the other cheek, be peaceful as a dove...
Is Christianity a 'off-guard' religion, what do you think?
Does Christianity sweep self-defence under the rug?

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nah believers can just sweep those bits of the religion under the rug when they feel like it

Rainman05 said:

People don't need religion to cause atrocities on one another. You can do that without religion. I think it's a blessing on the world that there is a religion that preaches that and maybe tempers' some peoples' fists. though, as rabidalpaca said... there are people who conveniently "forgot" large parts of the bible and did exactly what it preaches against.

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People don't need religion to treat each other as they would like to be treated.
People don't need religion to know stealingand cheating is wrong.
People don't need religion to know loving is better than hating.
People don't need religion to feel compassion for one's fellow man.
People don't need religion to know it is better to help the needy than turn one's back.
People don't need religion.

rhinefire said:

People don't need religion to treat each other as they would like to be treated.
People don't need religion to know stealingand cheating is wrong.
People don't need religion to know loving is better than hating.
People don't need religion to feel compassion for one's fellow man.
People don't need religion to know it is better to help the needy than turn one's back.
People don't need religion.

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For someone so anti-religious, you sure do start a lot of discussion threads in the religious discussions and the philosophical discussions subforums. Like, a lot. Like, thats the only thing you talk about, I don't think I've ever replied to a comment you made in any of the serious subforums about world events and what naught.

And no, people don't need that if people would always behave in a perfect manner and everything a person could want would be his. But that's not the case. And when there are so many religions on the planet that teach people to be murderous and evil and treat others with contempt, like islam or hinduism, it's good to see a religion that promotes peace and understanding and forgiveness among men.

People don't need religion to do violence, but most sure do need Christianity to learn forgiveness.

Rainman05 said:

For someone so anti-religious, you sure do start a lot of discussion threads in the religious discussions and the philosophical discussions subforums. Like, a lot. Like, thats the only thing you talk about, I don't think I've ever replied to a comment you made in any of the serious subforums about world events and what naught.

And no, people don't need that if people would always behave in a perfect manner and everything a person could want would be his. But that's not the case. And when there are so many religions on the planet that teach people to be murderous and evil and treat others with contempt, like islam or hinduism, it's good to see a religion that promotes peace and understanding and forgiveness among men.

People don't need religion to do violence, but most sure do need Christianity to learn forgiveness.

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I try to get people to think, to challenge, to question, to peek outside the box THAT is WHY we are alive! A dog learns commands, I do not.

rhinefire said:

I try to get people to think, to challenge, to question, to peek outside the box THAT is WHY we are alive! A dog learns commands, I do not.

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Are you sure about that? Because you seem pretty dogmatic in your approach. You don't seem like you're trying to challenge people to think... I think you're just trying to enforce your belief by attacking other peoples' believes. That's why you phrase things like you did in the above comment:

People don't need religion to treat each other as they would like to be treated.
People don't need religion to know stealingand cheating is wrong.
People don't need religion to know loving is better than hating.
People don't need religion to feel compassion for one's fellow man.
People don't need religion to know it is better to help the needy than turn one's back.
People don't need religion.

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You're trying to provoke people, not to thing, but to be like you, dogmatic and unthinking. Just a pawn in an meaningless online discussion that cannot have a resolution because you don't bring into the discussion any relevant things about any relevant topic to begin with. You're just rabidly attacking stuff.

That's why you ask stupid, senseless questions and hypotheticals, like what if jesus was ugly or make silly remarks about a snake in genesis, like, that's a big breakthrough for you. You, my friend, are the dogmatic one. You have a line of attack and you'll go down to the stupidest and trivial of talking points, the most childish topics that every grown up understands and doesn't feel the need to discuss, you pick them apart, isolate a minor detail, and blow it out of proportions like it's supposed to be the end all be all of a religion, which, I must say, it's only Christianity that you're attacking, is that because you have no realm of knowledge outside of it? Because it sure seems so.

The point is, you're not as clever as you think you. You know who are clever agnostics and atheists? People like Sam Harris or Bill Nye or Richard Dawkins, they also raise valid talking points and enlighten people. You're just making cheap knock-offs of talking points on the most uninteresting and uninspired topics.