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why ?

d0gbreath said:
I see. So could YHWH be the God that Jesus connects us to? How about Abraham? Allah and Yahwah are amazingly close pronunciations.
Click to expand...

Well you can consider that, I don't. They're not the same God. yahwe is not the same as allah. And not the same as God as Christians say when they say God.

It's simple math. What goes into forming the identity of the gods of each major religion? So not what is a god, but what goes into making his identity? The key ingredients as it were.
Yahwe = divinity + holy spirit + pre-jesus prophets like Moses and Abraham and what naught.
God (Christianity) = divinity + Holy spirit + prophets + Jesus + Mother of God + disciples
Allah = divinity + holy spirit + Jesus + mother of god + mohammed.

So they're all different. They're not the same.
 
No one has provided proof that either God or 'evolution' created the world. Lots of ideologues out there. Some are part of religion. Some are part of 'science'.

Gov't is eliminating religion. Why? To satisfy the desires of atheists?
 
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Rainman05 said:
Well you can consider that, I don't. They're not the same God. yahwe is not the same as allah. And not the same as God as Christians say when they say God.

It's simple math. What goes into forming the identity of the gods of each major religion? So not what is a god, but what goes into making his identity? The key ingredients as it were.
Yahwe = divinity + holy spirit + pre-jesus prophets like Moses and Abraham and what naught.
God (Christianity) = divinity + Holy spirit + prophets + Jesus + Mother of God + disciples
Allah = divinity + holy spirit + Jesus + mother of god + mohammed.

So they're all different. They're not the same.
Click to expand...

I do agree that the God has different trappings in each religion. I find them to be similar and you find them to be three very different Gods. I will always remember your side. Thanks.
 
Medusa said:
why are you atheist or believer ? .you have so many reasons or only one .discuss please.or maybe you just feel god ,thats all.l know it is not easy to stop believing in god and trying to live thinking there isnt any creator who helps you in the life but it is a process of questioning yourself and the world you live in.at the end of this adventure of questioning you may keep holding on to your beliefs or improve your way of analytical thinking ,begin to feel god by heart and create your own life philosophie which helps you interpret religions from a rational perspective.or you lose teh belief in god.tell what you experienced during this process.
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God is. Even when I hate the bastard. There was never a single solitary moment I wasn't aware. It's at once that simple and that complex. It's pointless to attempt to verbalise the ineffable. What Atheists would describe as being convenient, I find to be an endless source of frustration.
 
Paschendale said:
I was born and raised a Jew. The more I learned, both about the world (history and science), and about the religion that was taught to me, I realized how full of nonsense it was. I have yet to find any that isn't equally nonsense. This goes for major organized religions and various new age beliefs. Ghosts, goblins, gods, astrology... it's all the same. I would consider atheism the natural result of being a mature and educated human being. That there is no magic or spirits in the world is as plain to me as the effects of gravity or bacteria.
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I read through every comment and I chose this one because it is representative of several.

It is 1 of the 2 views at the heart of many people who are proponents of a atheism, which of course is not an affirmative belief of any kind or a philosophy or creed is it simply the denial of or disbelief of something, which is a perfectly reasonable and rational position. What is irrational and unreasonable is the self aggrandizing addition that "atheism the natural result of being a mature and educated human being". Why is it that one can not be mature or educated yet not be an atheist?

I for example was born an atheist, by any measure I had everything one could hope for. Yet in my case it was not until I was more mature and more educated than most that I converted to Catholism. Not because of any personal tradegy or need for help, or sense of weakness but out of a simple quest for knowledge.

So how do you explain all of the highly educated very mature people who are believers present and past?
 
Rainman05 said:
Because Yahwe is not the same as Jesus and not the same as Allah.

The jewish God has no Jesus only the promise of Jesus.
The Christian God has Jesus.
The muslim God has... mohammed as the last prophet and removes Jesus as being as important... you know, the son of God, which is also God, is less important than a pedophile. Kinda disturbing.

So no. They're not the same god. The God of the Old Testament, the Torah, is a brutal, genocidal, murderous, criminal, vengeful God. The God of the New Testament is a forgiving one who puts himself in front of a mob to protect a prostitute. The God of the Koran is a warring God who really hates a lot of people.
Click to expand...


never get angry when they claim you hate muslims and jews :(
 
Rainman05 said:
Because Yahwe is not the same as Jesus and not the same as Allah.

The jewish God has no Jesus only the promise of Jesus.
The Christian God has Jesus.
Click to expand...

wtf

In the beginning was the Word.
 
Rainman05 said:
Because Yahwe is not the same as Jesus and not the same as Allah.

The jewish God has no Jesus only the promise of Jesus.
The Christian God has Jesus.
The muslim God has... mohammed as the last prophet and removes Jesus as being as important... you know, the son of God, which is also God, is less important than a pedophile. Kinda disturbing.

So no. They're not the same god. The God of the Old Testament, the Torah, is a brutal, genocidal, murderous, criminal, vengeful God. The God of the New Testament is a forgiving one who puts himself in front of a mob to protect a prostitute. The God of the Koran is a warring God who really hates a lot of people.
Click to expand...


The God in the Old Testament and the New Testament are one and the same. Jesus had repeatedly quoted from the Old Testament. The New Testament is simply the continuation of the Old Testament.

There is no difference in the message that God gives in the Old Testament from the message that Jesus gives in the New Testament.
The same stipulation exists: Love and obedience to God.

Jesus Christ is God incarnate - He is God who became man, that the ultimate sacrifice be made for our salvation. If one really studies the Bible you'd see a consistency between the two Testaments.


God has many names in the Bible.


Question: "What are the different names of God and what do they mean?"

Answer: Each of the many names of God describes a different aspect of His many-faceted character.


Here are some of the better-known names of God in the Bible:


EL, ELOAH: God "mighty, strong, prominent" (Genesis 7:1; Isaiah 9:6) – etymologically, El appears to mean “power,” as in “I have the power to harm you” (Genesis 31:29). El is associated with other qualities, such as integrity (Numbers 23:19), jealousy (Deuteronomy 5:9), and compassion (Nehemiah 9:31), but the root idea of might remains.

ELOHIM: God “Creator, Mighty and Strong” (Genesis 17:7; Jeremiah 31:33) – the plural form of Eloah, which accommodates the doctrine of the Trinity. From the Bible’s first sentence, the superlative nature of God’s power is evident as God (Elohim) speaks the world into existence (Genesis 1:1).

EL SHADDAI: “God Almighty,” “The Mighty One of Jacob” (Genesis 49:24; Psalm 132:2,5) – speaks to God’s ultimate power over all.

ADONAI: “Lord” (Genesis 15:2; Judges 6:15) – used in place of YHWH, which was thought by the Jews to be too sacred to be uttered by sinful men. In the Old Testament, YHWH is more often used in God’s dealings with His people, while Adonai is used more when He deals with the Gentiles.

YHWH / YAHWEH / JEHOVAH: “LORD” (Deuteronomy 6:4; Daniel 9:14) – strictly speaking, the only proper name for God. Translated in English Bibles “LORD” (all capitals) to distinguish it from Adonai, “Lord.” The revelation of the name is first given to Moses “I Am who I Am” (Exodus 3:14). This name specifies an immediacy, a presence. Yahweh is present, accessible, near to those who call on Him for deliverance (Psalm 107:13), forgiveness (Psalm 25:11) and guidance (Psalm 31:3).

YAHWEH-JIREH: "The Lord Will Provide" (Genesis 22:14) – the name memorialized by Abraham when God provided the ram to be sacrificed in place of Isaac.

YAHWEH-RAPHA: "The Lord Who Heals" (Exodus 15:26) – “I am Jehovah who heals you” both in body and soul. In body, by preserving from and curing diseases, and in soul, by pardoning iniquities.

YAHWEH-NISSI: "The Lord Our Banner" (Exodus 17:15), where banner is understood to be a rallying place. This name commemorates the desert victory over the Amalekites in Exodus 17.

YAHWEH-M'KADDESH: "The Lord Who Sanctifies, Makes Holy" (Leviticus 20:8; Ezekiel 37:28) – God makes it clear that He alone, not the law, can cleanse His people and make them holy.

YAHWEH-SHALOM: "The Lord Our Peace" (Judges 6:24) – the name given by Gideon to the altar he built after the Angel of the Lord assured him he would not die as he thought he would after seeing Him.

YAHWEH-ELOHIM: "LORD God" (Genesis 2:4; Psalm 59:5) – a combination of God’s unique name YHWH and the generic “Lord,” signifying that He is the Lord of Lords.

YAHWEH-TSIDKENU: "The Lord Our Righteousness” (Jeremiah 33:16) – As with YHWH-M’Kaddesh, it is God alone who provides righteousness to man, ultimately in the person of His Son, Jesus Christ, who became sin for us “that we might become the Righteousness of God in Him” (2 Corinthians 5:21).

YAHWEH-ROHI: "The Lord Our Shepherd" (Psalm 23:1) – After David pondered his relationship as a shepherd to his sheep, he realized that was exactly the relationship God had with him, and so he declares, “Yahweh-Rohi is my Shepherd. I shall not want” (Psalm 23:1).

YAHWEH-SHAMMAH: "The Lord Is There” (Ezekiel 48:35) – the name ascribed to Jerusalem and the Temple there, indicating that the once-departed glory of the Lord (Ezekiel 8—11) had returned (Ezekiel 44:1-4).

YAHWEH-SABAOTH: "The Lord of Hosts" (Isaiah 1:24; Psalm 46:7) – Hosts means “hordes,” both of angels and of men. He is Lord of the host of heaven and of the inhabitants of the earth, of Jews and Gentiles, of rich and poor, master and slave. The name is expressive of the majesty, power, and authority of God and shows that He is able to accomplish what He determines to do.

EL ELYON: “Most High" (Deuteronomy 26:19) – derived from the Hebrew root for “go up” or “ascend,” so the implication is of that which is the very highest. El Elyon denotes exaltation and speaks of absolute right to lordship.

EL ROI: "God of Seeing" (Genesis 16:13) – the name ascribed to God by Hagar, alone and desperate in the wilderness after being driven out by Sarah (Genesis 16:1-14). When Hagar met the Angel of the Lord, she realized she had seen God Himself in a theophany. She also realized that El Roi saw her in her distress and testified that He is a God who lives and sees all.

EL-OLAM: "Everlasting God" (Psalm 90:1-3) – God’s nature is without beginning or end, free from all constraints of time, and He contains within Himself the very cause of time itself. “From everlasting to everlasting, You are God.”

EL-GIBHOR: “Mighty God” (Isaiah 9:6) – the name describing the Messiah, Christ Jesus, in this prophetic portion of Isaiah. As a powerful and mighty warrior, the Messiah, the Mighty God, will accomplish the destruction of God’s enemies and rule with a rod of iron (Revelation 19:15).

Read more: What are the different names of God and what do they mean?
 
tosca1 said:
The God in the Old Testament and the New Testament are one and the same. Jesus had repeatedly quoted from the Old Testament. The New Testament is simply the continuation of the Old Testament.

There is no difference in the message that God gives in the Old Testament from the message that Jesus gives in the New Testament.
The same stipulation exists: Love and obedience to God.

Jesus Christ is God incarnate - He is God who became man, that the ultimate sacrifice be made for our salvation. If one really studies the Bible you'd see a consistency between the two Testaments.
Click to expand...

Yeah... not really. You see, math beats propaganda. And my mathematical algorithm is tight.

Yahwe = divinity + holy spirit + pre-jesus prophets like Moses and Abraham and what naught.
God (Christianity) = divinity + Holy spirit + prophets + Jesus + Mother of God + disciples
Allah = divinity + holy spirit + Jesus + mother of god + mohammed.

See. you get different variables to work with that aren't interchangeable and don't have the same value. So mathematically, all that stuff makes no sense. Also, with the exception of the last paragraph that quotes from revelations, well, sort of quotes from there, all the quotes you give are from the old testament which is rubbish.
So just to be clear, all this:
EL, ELOAH: God "mighty, strong, prominent" (Genesis 7:1; Isaiah 9:6) – etymologically, El appears to mean “power,” as in “I have the power to harm you” (Genesis 31:29). El is associated with other qualities, such as integrity (Numbers 23:19), jealousy (Deuteronomy 5:9), and compassion (Nehemiah 9:31), but the root idea of might remains.

ELOHIM: God “Creator, Mighty and Strong” (Genesis 17:7; Jeremiah 31:33) – the plural form of Eloah, which accommodates the doctrine of the Trinity. From the Bible’s first sentence, the superlative nature of God’s power is evident as God (Elohim) speaks the world into existence (Genesis 1:1).

EL SHADDAI: “God Almighty,” “The Mighty One of Jacob” (Genesis 49:24; Psalm 132:2,5) – speaks to God’s ultimate power over all.

ADONAI: “Lord” (Genesis 15:2; Judges 6:15) – used in place of YHWH, which was thought by the Jews to be too sacred to be uttered by sinful men. In the Old Testament, YHWH is more often used in God’s dealings with His people, while Adonai is used more when He deals with the Gentiles.

YHWH / YAHWEH / JEHOVAH: “LORD” (Deuteronomy 6:4; Daniel 9:14) – strictly speaking, the only proper name for God. Translated in English Bibles “LORD” (all capitals) to distinguish it from Adonai, “Lord.” The revelation of the name is first given to Moses “I Am who I Am” (Exodus 3:14). This name specifies an immediacy, a presence. Yahweh is present, accessible, near to those who call on Him for deliverance (Psalm 107:13), forgiveness (Psalm 25:11) and guidance (Psalm 31:3).

YAHWEH-JIREH: "The Lord Will Provide" (Genesis 22:14) – the name memorialized by Abraham when God provided the ram to be sacrificed in place of Isaac.

YAHWEH-RAPHA: "The Lord Who Heals" (Exodus 15:26) – “I am Jehovah who heals you” both in body and soul. In body, by preserving from and curing diseases, and in soul, by pardoning iniquities.

YAHWEH-NISSI: "The Lord Our Banner" (Exodus 17:15), where banner is understood to be a rallying place. This name commemorates the desert victory over the Amalekites in Exodus 17.

YAHWEH-M'KADDESH: "The Lord Who Sanctifies, Makes Holy" (Leviticus 20:8; Ezekiel 37:28) – God makes it clear that He alone, not the law, can cleanse His people and make them holy.

YAHWEH-SHALOM: "The Lord Our Peace" (Judges 6:24) – the name given by Gideon to the altar he built after the Angel of the Lord assured him he would not die as he thought he would after seeing Him.

YAHWEH-ELOHIM: "LORD God" (Genesis 2:4; Psalm 59:5) – a combination of God’s unique name YHWH and the generic “Lord,” signifying that He is the Lord of Lords.

YAHWEH-TSIDKENU: "The Lord Our Righteousness” (Jeremiah 33:16) – As with YHWH-M’Kaddesh, it is God alone who provides righteousness to man, ultimately in the person of His Son, Jesus Christ, who became sin for us “that we might become the Righteousness of God in Him” (2 Corinthians 5:21).

YAHWEH-ROHI: "The Lord Our Shepherd" (Psalm 23:1) – After David pondered his relationship as a shepherd to his sheep, he realized that was exactly the relationship God had with him, and so he declares, “Yahweh-Rohi is my Shepherd. I shall not want” (Psalm 23:1).

YAHWEH-SHAMMAH: "The Lord Is There” (Ezekiel 48:35) – the name ascribed to Jerusalem and the Temple there, indicating that the once-departed glory of the Lord (Ezekiel 8—11) had returned (Ezekiel 44:1-4).

YAHWEH-SABAOTH: "The Lord of Hosts" (Isaiah 1:24; Psalm 46:7) – Hosts means “hordes,” both of angels and of men. He is Lord of the host of heaven and of the inhabitants of the earth, of Jews and Gentiles, of rich and poor, master and slave. The name is expressive of the majesty, power, and authority of God and shows that He is able to accomplish what He determines to do.

EL ELYON: “Most High" (Deuteronomy 26:19) – derived from the Hebrew root for “go up” or “ascend,” so the implication is of that which is the very highest. El Elyon denotes exaltation and speaks of absolute right to lordship.

EL ROI: "God of Seeing" (Genesis 16:13) – the name ascribed to God by Hagar, alone and desperate in the wilderness after being driven out by Sarah (Genesis 16:1-14). When Hagar met the Angel of the Lord, she realized she had seen God Himself in a theophany. She also realized that El Roi saw her in her distress and testified that He is a God who lives and sees all.

EL-OLAM: "Everlasting God" (Psalm 90:1-3) – God’s nature is without beginning or end, free from all constraints of time, and He contains within Himself the very cause of time itself. “From everlasting to everlasting, You are God.”
Click to expand...
Is just from the old testament and as I said before, the old testament, and the old testament god, the jewish god, is crap. He's a vengeful, murderous, genocidal, hateful, innocent baby killing, pro-slavery, racial supremacist bastard. Which is everything I don't look for in a deity and neither should anyone else. because it's crap.

So therefore, the 3 gods of the 3 main abrahamic religions, judaism (all variations), christianity (all variations), islam (all variations) are different because the math doesn't add up and in the case of christianity and judaism, the God is fundamentally different.

ecofarm said:
wtf

In the beginning was the Word.
Click to expand...

Microsoft Word.
 
Rainman05 said:
Yeah... not really. You see, math beats propaganda. And my mathematical algorithm is tight.

Yahwe = divinity + holy spirit + pre-jesus prophets like Moses and Abraham and what naught.
God (Christianity) = divinity + Holy spirit + prophets + Jesus + Mother of God + disciples
Allah = divinity + holy spirit + Jesus + mother of god + mohammed.

See. you get different variables to work with that aren't interchangeable and don't have the same value. So mathematically, all that stuff makes no sense.
Click to expand...

Care to fully explain your "chart?" It doesn't make any sense just by looking at all your equals and plusses. That's all the "mathematics" I see in it.

AS an example, I'm baffled why your summation of Allah has Jesus and mother of God in it? What's all that about?

Why don't you give us a little workshop how to understand your "chart?"



Also, with the exception of the last paragraph that quotes from revelations, well, sort of quotes from there, all the quotes you give are from the old testament which is rubbish.
So just to be clear, all this:

Is just from the old testament and as I said before, the old testament, and the old testament god, the jewish god, is crap. He's a vengeful, murderous, genocidal, hateful, innocent baby killing, pro-slavery, racial supremacist bastard. Which is everything I don't look for in a deity and neither should anyone else. because it's crap.

So therefore, the 3 gods of the 3 main abrahamic religions, judaism (all variations), christianity (all variations), islam (all variations) are different because the math doesn't add up and in the case of christianity and judaism, the God is fundamentally different.
Click to expand...


Your "math" doesn't add up more so because you don't fully understand the problem you're trying to solve. That's the gist of it.


Btw, mockings don't give the desired effect when the reader is busily preoccupied trying to understand the gibberish in front of him....what more if he's trying to decide if he's wasting his time reading just another nonsense from someone struck by religion madness.
 
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Paschendale said:
That the two tend to go together is kinda my whole point. When I didn't think, I believed. When I learned how to think, I realized how wrong belief was.
Click to expand...


But your sole experience cannot be the sole basis to conclude that therefore Christian belief is wrong. Other atheists who'd been professional THINKERS had come to the opposite conclusion. They ended up believing in Christianity, so much so that they converted to it.
 
d0gbreath said:
Most of the modern religions that worship one God, are worshiping the same God. If only everyone could see that this is true, a lot of pain and suffering could be alleviated.
Click to expand...


That kind of thinking is due to our pluralistic society. Political correctness and all that...


Christianity is not a "modern" religion.

If the modern religion(s) believe in Christ, and are adhering to His teachings as stipulated in the Christian Bible, then I'll say they're worshipping the same Christian God.

If not, then it's obvious that they don't worship the same God. They only think they do.



Matthew 5

The Fulfillment of the Law

17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.


As you see, God is not the One who will conform to men, or to this world. There is no such thing as being "modern" when it comes to the Bible.
What is written will be the way it is until the heaven and the earth disappear.

In fact Christians are not supposed to conform to this world - we don't go with fads.
If the Bible is "outdated" for some....well that's for people to decide which direction they'd rather go.
Thus the question one needs to ask one's self is: why do I want to be a Christian?
 
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tosca1 said:
Care to fully explain your "chart?" It doesn't make any sense just by looking at all your equals and plusses. That's all the "mathematics" I see in it.

AS an example, I'm baffled why your summation of Allah has Jesus and mother of God in it? What's all that about?

Why don't you give us a little workshop how to understand your "chart?"

Your "math" doesn't add up more so because you don't fully understand the problem you're trying to solve. That's the gist of it.

Btw, mockings don't give the desired effect when the reader is busily preoccupied trying to understand the gibberish in front of him....what more if he's trying to decide if he's wasting his time reading just another nonsense from someone struck by religion madness.
Click to expand...

Read the god damn thing I wrote above. It's not bloody rocket science to go up like 6 comments and see the comment I was mentioning:
It's simple math. What goes into forming the identity of the gods of each major religion? So not what is a god, but what goes into making his identity? The key ingredients as it were.
Yahwe = divinity + holy spirit + pre-jesus prophets like Moses and Abraham and what naught.
God (Christianity) = divinity + Holy spirit + prophets + Jesus + Mother of God + disciples
Allah = divinity + holy spirit + Jesus + mother of god + mohammed.
Click to expand...

In islam, Jesus plays a role and so does Mary. They're considered important. They're key ingredients into the cult of divinity in islam.

My math adds up perfectly. It's simple, any child can understand it, or anyone who understands variables or their role in mathematics.

I know precisely what I am talking about. There is no confusion in my mind. A lot of people make the mistake of combining christianity and judaism into the same thing, calling it the judeo-christian religion or tradition, which is wrong. There is no such thing as judeo-christian anything. there is christianity and there is judaism. Same, there are people who try and compile islam into the mix and saying things like "the god of each abrahamic religion is the same god" because they falsely equate the divinity of each abrahamic religion because each religion of the 3 is abrahamic. Being part of a designated group of religions that share some notions in between them is not the same as saying that the object of worship in those religions is the same. It's not. And the way people go about expressing their worship is different.

Mathematics trumps religious dogma. If the equations aren't equal, the things you're trying to equate aren't the same.
 
Rainman05 said:
Well you can consider that, I don't. They're not the same God. yahwe is not the same as allah. And not the same as God as Christians say when they say God.

It's simple math. What goes into forming the identity of the gods of each major religion? So not what is a god, but what goes into making his identity? The key ingredients as it were.
Yahwe = divinity + holy spirit + pre-jesus prophets like Moses and Abraham and what naught.
God (Christianity) = divinity + Holy spirit + prophets + Jesus + Mother of God + disciples
Allah = divinity + holy spirit + Jesus + mother of god + mohammed.

So they're all different. They're not the same.
Click to expand...

Well, your chart is mish-mash. For example, Yahweh (as in the Christian God) would also = the Holy Spirit.


Genesis 1
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

What is "what naught?" There is no "what naught" in the Bible.

The Old Testament also referred to the Mother of the Saviour in a prophecy.


God (Christianity) should also include Moses and Abraham since Jesus made reference of them in His teachings. He referred to the old Prophets.

What are you saying? Judas Escariot was prophesied in the OT. John The Baptist was foretold in the OT.
Because all the disciples were not mentioned specifically in the Old Testament would make OT God different from NT God?

Judaism and Christianity worship the same God. They hold basically the same laws (and more ) that is upheld and taught by Jesus.
But Jews are not Christians because they don't believe that Jesus was the promised Messiah.

The New Testament is simply the continuation of the Old Testament.

Your chart is plain gibberish.
 
tosca1 said:
Well, your chart is mish-mash. For example, Yahweh (as in the Christian God) would also = the Holy Spirit.


Genesis 1
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

What is "what naught?" There is no "what naught" in the Bible.

The Old Testament also referred to the Mother of the Saviour in a prophecy.


God (Christianity) should also include Moses and Abraham since Jesus made reference of them in His teachings. He referred to the old Prophets.

What are you saying? Judas Escariot was prophesied in the OT. John The Baptist was foretold in the OT.
Because all the disciples were not mentioned specifically in the Old Testament would make OT God different from NT God?

Judaism and Christianity worship the same God. They hold basically the same laws (and more ) that is upheld and taught by Jesus.
But Jews are not Christians because they don't believe that Jesus was the promised Messiah.

The New Testament is simply the continuation of the Old Testament.

Your chart is plain gibberish.
Click to expand...

it's not a bloody chart.

And they are.
Yahwe = divinity + holy spirit + pre-jesus prophets like Moses and Abraham and what naught.
God (Christianity) = divinity + Holy spirit + prophets + Jesus + Mother of God + disciples
Allah = divinity + holy spirit + Jesus + mother of god + mohammed.

Read the bloody equations. Here, I color coded them to make it easier. Notice how things are different from one to another? Notice how colors are missing?

And what naught is technical term for the rest of the prophets in the old testament.

The NT is a continuation of the OT but the god of the NT is 180 degrees different than the god of the OT. So either God has a split personality and is schitzofrenic or they are 2 separate gods between Judaism and Christianity, which is what it is. Same with islam.
Something being mentioned in the OT doesn't make it a crucial part of what God is. God promised a lot of things and from the jewish perspective, he only delivered the criminal parts on behalf of the jewish people. Murdering 99% the planet by floods, blowing up 2 cities, killing the egyptians babies, giving the jews permit to massacre their way to the holy land, etc.

My maths are impecable. I know, I do maths really bloody good. The equations don't match. If the equations had matched, they all would have the same colors in them, but they don't. A different color or a missing color means different sum result which means, different God.
 
Rainman05 said:
it's not a bloody chart.

And they are.
Yahwe = divinity + holy spirit + pre-jesus prophets like Moses and Abraham and what naught.
God (Christianity) = divinity + Holy spirit + prophets + Jesus + Mother of God + disciples
Allah = divinity + holy spirit + Jesus + mother of god + mohammed.

Read the bloody equations. Here, I color coded them to make it easier. Notice how things are different from one to another? Notice how colors are missing?

And what naught is technical term for the rest of the prophets in the old testament.

The NT is a continuation of the OT but the god of the NT is 180 degrees different than the god of the OT. So either God has a split personality and is schitzofrenic or they are 2 separate gods between Judaism and Christianity, which is what it is. Same with islam.
Something being mentioned in the OT doesn't make it a crucial part of what God is. God promised a lot of things and from the jewish perspective, he only delivered the criminal parts on behalf of the jewish people. Murdering 99% the planet by floods, blowing up 2 cities, killing the egyptians babies, giving the jews permit to massacre their way to the holy land, etc.

My maths are impecable. I know, I do maths really bloody good. The equations don't match. If the equations had matched, they all would have the same colors in them, but they don't. A different color or a missing color means different sum result which means, different God.
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I'm talking about Yahweh and God (Judaism and Christianity). They're the same!

You may have color-coded them - but your coding doesn't mean anything.

Read my previous post again. I explained why your "whatever-you-call-it" (since you say it's not a chart) is just nonsense.

Btw, what is a "what naught?" Where did you see that "what naught?" :mrgreen:
 
Rainman05 said:
The NT is a continuation of the OT but the god of the NT is 180 degrees different than the god of the OT.
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No He's not. The God of the OT and the NT is the same jealous, but loving, forgiving, and merciful God.

What can I say? You've got to understand some of the Bible. I'm not saying that as an insult....Christians try to study to understand.
 
tosca1 said:
No He's not. The God of the OT and the NT is the same jealous, but loving, forgiving, and merciful God.

What can I say? You've got to understand some of the Bible. I'm not saying that as an insult....Christians try to study to understand.
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tosca1 said:
I'm talking about Yahweh and God (Judaism and Christianity). They're the same!

You may have color-coded them - but your coding doesn't mean anything.

Read my previous post again. I explained why your "whatever-you-call-it" (since you say it's not a chart) is just nonsense.

Btw, what is a "what naught?" Where did you see that "what naught?" :mrgreen:
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Are you skimming thru my bloody comment?
And what naught is technical term for the rest of the prophets in the old testament.
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So in the original comment where I drafted the algorithm I named a few prophets, the rest are collectively refered to as "what naught". Is that so hard to understand? Because if these simple concepts are too much for you then I'm basically wasting my time here. I can't bring myself to explain these things in more simpler terms. what is simpler than bloody mathematics? Mathematics is the simplest and most beautiful thing in the universe, not being able to understand it makes you blind and deaf.

If you disagree with the algorithms I proposed, make your own but since you clearly have a handicap in regards to mathematics, I doubt you could.

The color coding is to help even the simplest of minds understand the principle behind it and it's positively flawless. It is the perfect algorithm to explain the relationship between God and the various parts that compose God and the cult of divinity of each major abrahamic religion denomination.

The God of judaism is a genocidal maniac and the god of Christianity is the opposite. let me give you an example. The god of judaism bombed a bloody city, well 2, to the ground because they were full of prositutes and decadence and adultery. The god of Christianity put himself between a raging mob and an adulterer, protecting the woman from stoning. See the difference? It's quite a 180 degrees turn. The god of judaism killed the innocent babies of Egyptians in the name of jewish supremacism and the god of Christianity healed a lepper. Quite the opposite... death vs life; punishment vs forgiveness; disease vs cure. So either you believe that God has a split personality, in essence, being a schitzophrenic, or they are 2 different Gods. but it's certainly not the same god.

And Allah is clearly not the same as both the Christian one and the jewish one.
 
Rainman05 said:
Are you skimming thru my bloody comment?

So in the original comment where I drafted the algorithm I named a few prophets, the rest are collectively refered to as "what naught". Is that so hard to understand? Because if these simple concepts are too much for you then I'm basically wasting my time here. I can't bring myself to explain these things in more simpler terms. what is simpler than bloody mathematics? Mathematics is the simplest and most beautiful thing in the universe, not being able to understand it makes you blind and deaf.
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Well, the New Testaments should also include a, "what naught." After all, there are prophets in the New Testaments. That's another thing that makes the OT and the NT similar - the MO of using PROPHETS.


If you disagree with the algorithms I proposed, make your own but since you clearly have a handicap in regards to mathematics, I doubt you could.
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Math is my biggest headache, no denying that. I don't need to make my own algorithms (that's what you call it)....I am questioning yours. You're in a forum and you presented your "algorithms" as an argument to make a "fact-based" opinion, and I'm saying nay. I am rebutting your argument.



The color coding is to help even the simplest of minds understand the principle behind it and it's positively flawless. It is the perfect algorithm to explain the relationship between God and the various parts that compose God and the cult of divinity of each major abrahamic religion denomination.
Click to expand...

Colors and codings don't mean anything if what you're color-coding don't make any sense. That's what I'm saying.



The God of judaism is a genocidal maniac and the god of Christianity is the opposite. let me give you an example. The god of judaism bombed a bloody city, well 2, to the ground because they were full of prositutes and decadence and adultery. The god of Christianity put himself between a raging mob and an adulterer, protecting the woman from stoning. See the difference? It's quite a 180 degrees turn. The god of judaism killed the innocent babies of Egyptians in the name of jewish supremacism and the god of Christianity healed a lepper. Quite the opposite... death vs life; punishment vs forgiveness; disease vs cure. So either you believe that God has a split personality, in essence, being a schitzophrenic, or they are 2 different Gods. but it's certainly not the same god.
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That is the common cliche' criticisms of those who don't have any understanding of the Bible - that the OT God is a genocidal maniac. Thus I advise you to try to study the Bible if you're going to criticize it in a forum.

I tell you, OT and NT God are both CONSISTENTLY one and the same. You don't see it because you need to study (like I did) to get it.

He is the same jealous, and yet LOVING, MERCIFUL and FORGIVING God.



And Allah is clearly not the same as both the Christian one and the jewish one.
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I stated that I was speaking about Judaism and Christianity. I didn't say anything about Allah.
 
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tosca1 said:
Well, the New Testaments should also include a, "what naught." After all, there are prophets in the New Testaments. That's another thing that makes the OT and the NT similar - the MO of using PROPHETS.
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You're gaping at straws.


Math is my biggest headache, no denying that. I don't need to make my own algorithms (that's what you call it)....I am questioning yours. You're in a forum and you presented your "algorithms" as an argument to make a "fact-based" opinion, and I'm saying nay. I am rebutting your argument.
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You're not rebutting anything. You're simply incapable of understanding it. That doesn't make it invalid, it makes you incompetent.

Colors and codings don't mean anything if what you're color-coding don't make any sense. That's what I'm saying.
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As said above. Even color coding things to show off the differences won't help, I don't know what will.


That is the common cliche' criticisms of those who don't have any understanding of the Bible - that the OT God is a genocidal maniac. Thus I advise you to try to study the Bible if you're going to criticize it in a forum.

I tell you, OT and NT God are both CONSISTENTLY one and the same. You don't see it because you need to study (like I did) to get it.

He is the same jealous, and yet LOVING, MERCIFUL and FORGIVING God.
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No buddy boy, you don't understand the Bible. I don't need a college education in the bible to understand it. I have a superior education and the mental faculties to deal with it properly, in a methodical order. I am not to blame that you can't process the information.


I stated that I was speaking about Judaism and Christianity. I didn't say anything about Allah.
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The OP wasn't just discussing Judaism and Christianity. Your arbitrary choice of limiting the pool of knowledge to 2 religions shows why you can't grasp them. I learned a lot about all religions, including the eastern ones, and hence, I have a comprehensive picture of the variations between religions. I suggest you read these books, they'll give you a good comprehensive knowledge on the matter.

History of Religious Ideas, Volume 1: From the Stone Age to the Eleusinian Mysteries: Mircea Eliade, Willard R. Trask: 9780226204017: Amazon.com: Books

This is a link to volume 1. Start there if you want to actually say you know something. Otherwise, you're unfit for purpose in this dialogue.
 
Rainman05 said:
You're gaping at straws.
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Answer this: Does the New Testament have prophets?


No buddy boy, you don't understand the Bible. I don't need a college education in the bible to understand it. I have a superior education and the mental faculties to deal with it properly, in a methodical order. I am not to blame that you can't process the information.
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You don't need a college education to do a Bible Study. A good Bible Study book will help. Joining a group Bible Study session is great, too. Or you can ask credible people who'd studied the Bible, like pastors or priests.


The OP wasn't just discussing Judaism and Christianity. Your arbitrary choice of limiting the pool of knowledge to 2 religions shows why you can't grasp them. I learned a lot about all religions, including the eastern ones, and hence, I have a comprehensive picture of the variations between religions. I suggest you read these books, they'll give you a good comprehensive knowledge on the matter.
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I was simply correcting the faulty premise about Judaism and Christianity.


History of Religious Ideas, Volume 1: From the Stone Age to the Eleusinian Mysteries: Mircea Eliade, Willard R. Trask: 9780226204017: Amazon.com: Books

This is a link to volume 1. Start there if you want to actually say you know something. Otherwise, you're unfit for purpose in this dialogue.
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Why do I need to read that? You are jumping into an erroneous conclusion that the God of the Old Testament and the New are not the same.
That's all I was addressing.

Anyway, believe what you want.
 
tosca l am fed up with your judeo christian god obsession.do l ever call ALLAH islamic god ?
 
tosca1 said:
Answer this: Does the New Testament have prophets?

They're not relevant anymore, with the exception of John the baptist. The key elements of the new testament are Jesus and the apostles.

You don't need a college education to do a Bible Study. A good Bible Study book will help. Joining a group Bible Study session is great, too. Or you can ask credible people who'd studied the Bible, like pastors or priests.

I can think for myself thank you, I don't need indoctrination.

I was simply correcting the faulty premise about Judaism and Christianity.

No, you were simply wrong about your interpretation.

Why do I need to read that? You are jumping into an erroneous conclusion that the God of the Old Testament and the New are not the same.
That's all I was addressing.

Anyway, believe what you want.
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You know why? Because knowing other religions makes you understand your own better. It's the same with languages. You only truly understand and "feel" your language when you also learn a foreign one.

“Those who know nothing of foreign languages know nothing of their own.”

‒Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

“You can never understand one language until you understand at least two.”

‒Geoffrey Willans
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Medusa said:
why are you atheist or believer ? .you have so many reasons or only one .discuss please.or maybe you just feel god ,thats all.l know it is not easy to stop believing in god and trying to live thinking there isnt any creator who helps you in the life but it is a process of questioning yourself and the world you live in.at the end of this adventure of questioning you may keep holding on to your beliefs or improve your way of analytical thinking ,begin to feel god by heart and create your own life philosophie which helps you interpret religions from a rational perspective.or you lose teh belief in god.tell what you experienced during this process.
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I was raised in a religions family - father's a minister.

I experienced a whole host of ungodly behaviors and knew a lot of foul people, all within the church while I grew up. Basically: the caliber of people who flock to the church drove me away from it physically.

The unbelievable nature of biblical stories (Jonah and the Whale, etc) drove me away from it logically.

The dissolve of my parent's marriage and the moral compass of those around me who 'still believe in God' drove me away from it spiritually.

I'm now an atheist - I've seen nothing that has proven God exists, or that people are better off for believing in him. Morality rests on individual wants and choices, not in a holy book.
 
Did Catholic school, K-12, raised up in all the church and all the teachings and belief. Got a great education, college was a joke compared to high school, got the degree, got the nice job, blah blah blah.

But, as I grew up, I realized that none of the religion made any sense. Traveled the world, visited LDS temples, mosques, the Vatican, numerous Buddhist Wats, etc. I tried to make a go of it all, tried to believe, but it made no sense whatsoever, no matter what religion. I tried.

But I can't. I am a scientific person by nature, I have a great curiosity for the world, I am an amateur astronomer, I love logic, reason and science. Religion offers none of that. I can't place any "faith" in an old book of fables.

I lead as good and honest and ethical life as any good person that believes in god, I just don't need to have a god. I am what I am, and I can make a positive impact on the world and all those around me while I am here.

The invisible and the non existent are the same thing.
 
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