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Are Jews "chosen people"?

Do you believe that Jews are "chosen people"?

  • Yes, chosen by God

    Votes: 11 23.4%

  • Yes, chosen by someone else

    Votes: 2 4.3%

  • No, this is made up

    Votes: 11 23.4%

  • There is no God, so no

    Votes: 18 38.3%

  • I don't know

    Votes: 5 10.6%
  • Total voters
    47
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ecofarm said:
Yes, it is false. Christians do not believe Jews are the chosen people. They believe the followers of God are the chosen people - that's them. Further, some Christian denominations believe that their 'remnant church' are the chosen people. People who believe in the Bible (Christians) DO NOT believe that Jews are the chosen people. My post, above, explains this clearly and provides links to supporting material regarding terms that most people are not familiar with.

You clearly have no clue what you're talking about.
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You clearly have no clue as to what was said, and therefore, do not have a clue as to what you speak.


Excon said:
If you believe in the G_d of the Bible, the answer is yes.
If you only believe in a possibility of the G_d from the Bible existing, the answer would still be yes, in accordance with the belief.
If you do not believe in a G_d, then the answer would be no.
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And even if you don't believe in a, or their G_d, you can still believe they are the chosen people according to their belief.
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Christians do not get to change what was said in the Jewish Bible concerning the Jews. Which is what we are talking about. Not christian beliefs.
Try to focus on what is actually being spoken about. Not what you want it to be.
 
ecofarm said:
First Baptist Church, Atlanta:



Welcome to Chosen People - First Baptist Church Atlanta
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Well, that really wasn't the idea I was referring to. :lol:

In my childhood religious rearing, there was a belief that Jews are favored by God, as being special, and exempt from the doctrine of Christianity because of it. As I said, it may not still be a belief that is adhered to, but it's what I was reared to believe.
 
Excon said:
Christians do not get to change what was said in the Jewish Bible concerning the Jews. Which is what we are talking about. Not christian beliefs.
Try to focus on what is actually being spoken about. Not what you want it to be.
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You claimed "If you believe in the G_d of the Bible, the answer is yes."

That is false. You fail to understand that Israel of the OT was more a spiritual nation than a geographic and ethnic nation.
 
lizzie said:
Well, that really wasn't the idea I was referring to. :lol:

In my childhood religious rearing, there was a belief that Jews are favored by God, as being special, and exempt from the doctrine of Christianity because of it. As I said, it may not still be a belief that is adhered to, but it's what I was reared to believe.
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Yes, I've heard that as well (especially from Baptists). That Jews "have a separate covenant with God". That is debated among Christians, as Paul makes it clear there is only one covenant (Galatians).


And how do we explain this?:

God's Chosen People Baptist Church - 1900 NW 12th St, Oklahoma City, OK 73106 | MapQuest
 
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ecofarm said:
You claimed "If you believe in the G_d of the Bible, the answer is yes."

That is false. You fail to understand that Israel of the OT was more a spiritual nation than a geographic and ethnic nation.
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Oy Vey.
We are speaking about the Jewish religious belief.
So cut the bs.

So again; "And even if you don't believe in a, or their G_d, you can still believe they are the chosen people according to their belief."
 
ecofarm said:
Yes, I've heard that as well. That Jews "have a separate covenant with God". That is debated among Christians, as Paul makes it clear there is only one covenant (Galatians).
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Paul does not dictate to the Jews their religious doctrine.
 
Excon said:
Paul does not dictate to the Jews their religious doctrine.
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So, by "if you believe in the G_d of the Bible" you meant "if you are a Jew"?

Backpedaling.
 
As to the question I have to say that I don't care and I have never cared. Why does it matter? Growing up I had many Jewish neighbors and friends. The question never occurred to us. It was never mentioned, discussed or considered. Today I have Jewish friends and still the question is meaningless to me. If it is a big issue with my Jewish friends, they've never said a damn thing about it to me.

I'm good with people believing as they do or not believing at all in any religion as long as they leave everyone else the hell alone about it.
 
The Jews that lived several thousand years ago and wrote these stories were a pretty xenophobic bunch. They were pretty intolerant of every other culture and used their religious parables to aggrandize themselves. Many of the commandments and laws in Exodus and Leviticus have little to do with any moral ideas, but instead about celebrating their own culture (nomadic herders) over others (usually agrarian farmers). That is the source of many kosher rules about which animals it's alright to eat (herded animals like goats and cows are fine, but not farmed ones like pigs or rabbits), or what it's alright to wear (hence the prohibitions against mixing fabrics, you have to stick to just furs and hides, and can't mix in any farmed cotton).

Judaism hasn't done very much to shed this xenophobia, but attempting to separate and distinguish itself is a large component of the mindset of the early Jews. Declaring themselves chosen and ordained by a god (and declaring that god superior to all others) is one more facet of that mindset.

As to the very idea of chosen people... self important religious divides only cause us more strife and war. People need to get over themselves and stop thinking that their culture or religion makes them superior.
 
Excon said:
There has been no patches or updates to the Jewish faith.
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Ofc there is. It's called New Testament update. It's a free patch update that fixed a ton of bugs and failure of the OT and you also have the possibility to choose one of multiple DLC -> Orthodox DLC, Catholic DLC, Protestant DLC, baptist DLC, etc. Also comes with Renaissance safeguard, Baroque music, art and arhitecture DLC and a free anti-virus European Enlightenment.
 
American said:
What's your purpose in using the underline?
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A few years ago, I used to read a weekly column by a Jewish rabbi, because I found his writing to be thought-provoking and filled with insight. He did the same thing (with the underline), and it made me wonder about it too. Apparently, it has to do with having a high level of reverence for God, and if you write it out, then symbolically, it can be destroyed, which is not an acceptable practice in the Jewish faith.
 
ecofarm said:
So, by "if you believe in the G_d of the Bible" you meant "if you are a Jew"?

Backpedaling.
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I see you are ignoreing what else was said. Weird.
We are talking about their beliefs and their bible which says they are.
Do you really not understand that?
 
Paschendale said:
The Jews that lived several thousand years ago and wrote these stories were a pretty xenophobic bunch. They were pretty intolerant of every other culture and used their religious parables to aggrandize themselves. Many of the commandments and laws in Exodus and Leviticus have little to do with any moral ideas, but instead about celebrating their own culture (nomadic herders) over others (usually agrarian farmers). That is the source of many kosher rules about which animals it's alright to eat (herded animals like goats and cows are fine, but not farmed ones like pigs or rabbits), or what it's alright to wear (hence the prohibitions against mixing fabrics, you have to stick to just furs and hides, and can't mix in any farmed cotton).

Judaism hasn't done very much to shed this xenophobia, but attempting to separate and distinguish itself is a large component of the mindset of the early Jews. Declaring themselves chosen and ordained by a god (and declaring that god superior to all others) is one more facet of that mindset.

As to the very idea of chosen people... self important religious divides only cause us more strife and war. People need to get over themselves and stop thinking that their culture or religion makes them superior.
Click to expand...


The world then was xenophobic - everywhere. Why single out the Jews? The world is still pretty xenophobic, and again you find a need to single out Jews.

Yes, the world was VERY xenophobic 3000 years ago. Yes, the world is still rather xenophobic today. What does that have to do with any specific religion and belief that members of the religion are those in service of God?
 
Risky Thicket said:
I'm good with people believing as they do or not believing at all in any religion as long as they leave everyone else the hell alone about it.
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And Jewish people do tend to leave others alone. I can't say that I've ever had a Jewish person try to convert me. :lol:
 
Excon said:
I see you are ignoreing what else was said. Weird.
We are talking about their beliefs and their bible which says they are.
Do you really not understand that?
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I think it's ludicrous you are pretending that by "if you believe in the G_d of the Bible", you meant Jews exclusively.

Gotta call BS on that.
 
Rainman05 said:
Ofc there is. It's called New Testament update. It's a free patch update that fixed a ton of bugs and failure of the OT and you also have the possibility to choose one of multiple DLC -> Orthodox DLC, Catholic DLC, Protestant DLC, baptist DLC, etc. Also comes with Renaissance safeguard, Baroque music, art and arhitecture DLC and a free anti-virus European Enlightenment.
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:doh
That is not an upgrade or patch to Judaism. It is the christian religion which actually fixed nothing in Judaism. D'oh!
 
lizzie said:
A few years ago, I used to read a weekly column by a Jewish rabbi, because I found his writing to be thought-provoking and filled with insight. He did the same thing (with the underline), and it made me wonder about it too. Apparently, it has to do with having a high level of reverence for God, and if you write it out, then symbolically, it can be destroyed, which is not an acceptable practice in the Jewish faith.
Click to expand...

I know the purpose, I wanted to find if that's why he was doing it. I have my opinion on that whole business. Thanks. :kissy:
 
ecofarm said:
I think it's ludicrous you are pretending that by "if you believe in the G_d of the Bible", you meant Jews exclusively.

Gotta call BS on that.
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I think it is ludicrous to think I was speaking of anything other than their Bible.
 
lizzie said:
And Jewish people do tend to leave others alone. I can't say that I've ever had a Jewish person try to convert me. :lol:
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I just want to note that you are correct about the Baptist Church having a special place for Jews, and exorting their members to "pray for Israel" - because the Jews are a ~"kind of" Chosen People (but not as Chosen as Baptists, of course). However, most Christian denominations do not interpret God's promise as geographic but spiritual.
 
Paschendale said:
As to the very idea of chosen people... self important religious divides only cause us more strife and war. People need to get over themselves and stop thinking that their culture or religion makes them superior.
Click to expand...

If you were to avail yourself to the actual interpretations of the term "chosen people", you would not be promoting this sort of falsehood.

Of course, those who are prejudiced, themselves, love to foster such to try to justify their own prejudice ;)
 
ecofarm said:
I just want to note that you are correct about the Baptist Church having a special place for Jews, and exorting their members to "pray for Israel" - because the Jews are a ~"kind of" Chosen People (but not as Chosen as Baptists, of course). However, most Christian denominations do not interpret God's promise as geographic but spiritual.
Click to expand...

To the bolded: actually, I didn't get that impression at all. Perhaps I was just naïve.
 
Excon said:
I think it is ludicrous to think I was speaking of anything other than their Bible.
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Christians don't believe in the "G_d" of the Bible?
 
Excon said:
Strange?
What do you find winning about that?
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I thought it was especially clever.

Allow me to explain.

I think that you, as a Gentile, adhering to strict Jewish orthodox orthographical conventions as a matter of appearances is pretty lame.

I think you're refusal to explain why you do it (assuming you even know, I suspect, rather, that it's just something you saw somewhere and think makes you look "cool", or whatever) is even lamer.

His turning that into a joke was especially winning in my eyes.

I don't think it rises to the level of his winning the Internet for today, but it caused me to laugh so I gave him props.
 
ecofarm said:
The world then was xenophobic - everywhere. Why single out the Jews? The world is still pretty xenophobic, and again you find a need to single out Jews.

Yes, the world was VERY xenophobic 3000 years ago. Yes, the world is still rather xenophobic today. What does that have to do with any specific religion and belief that members of the religion are those in service of God?
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"Single them out" because that's the topic of discussion. I don't know why the Babylonians were specifically xenophobic, and there were certainly cultures that were more or less so than others. Judaism is on the "more" side of the scale. I'm just offering a history lesson. Another such lesson would be all the wars and conflicts between people in an attempt to prove whose god was better. What a silly thing to fight and kill each other over.
 
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