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Evidence for the Bible / God[W:14]

William Lane Craig: The Evidence For Jesus' Resurrection. (2011)



 
You can't point to a passage in the gospels or the rest of the NT and say: "There, thats proof". Well you can, but you're simply proclaiming faith. Faith and proof don't belong together.

I have the same problem with liberal scholars. They start from: "Supernatural-ism is not possible". From there they embrace the same fallacies of the believer. "Jesus didn't perform miracles because miracles can't exist" is the same as "We know its true, because the NT says so". Both are faith arguments.

I agree with the sentiment of your post. There is no secular evidence in the Bible that can prove or disprove say the Resurrection of Jesus. Even if there was a way to guarantee the tomb was Christ's, it would be impossible to prove 100% the body was not stolen or if there were remains whether it was Jesus' remains.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints teaches that his life is a test of faith and we have a veil over our pre-mortal memories. Our spirits existed prior to being born on earth as literal sons or daughters of God. This is the reason imo so many people have an innate belief in God. Because we once knew our Heavenly Parents better than our earthly parents and the veil can be thin. I knew the Bible and the Book of Mormon were true as a very young child, because I pretty much instantly recognized God's voice in the scriptures. Deep down I just knew. I also felt the spirit. I think that is likely how most believers come to believe. Maybe they do not have a perfect knowledge, and may interpret the scriptures wrongly, but they innately recognize the voice of God in them.

So just the words of God alone is great evidence to those whose spirit recognize God's voice. The spirit or Holy Ghost confirms it to a soul.


The Restoration through the prophet Joseph Smith begins with the 14 yo Joseph, being confused on what church to join, having the faith to believe and follow through on this verse from the Bible:
If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. James 1:5

The result of his prayer, Heavenly Father and Christ visited him.

The Book of Mormon begins in the opening chapter with Lehi praying and receiving a revelation from God that allows His family to escape the destruction of Jerusalem by Babylon and ends in the last chapter with the following statement to all of us:

3 Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts.
4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truthof it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.
5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.


The above way is how everyone that I know have found the truth. Is there secular evidence that is strong evidence. Yes. To me the Book of Mormon is the strongest secular evidence in support of the Bible and the existence of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The Bible being historical is not strong evidence of the miraculous aspects of the Bible given the way we have received it. But the Book of Mormon on the other hand, given the way we received it, if it is a real ancient text, then that is extremely strong evidence in support of both the Bible being the word of God and Jesus being the Savior as the BoM testifies of both. And because the BoM claims to be historical it can be tested for a forgery utilizing scientific method to test it. That is what LDS scholars have been quietly doing and have amassed a mountain of evidence in support that it is an ancient text. To me the evidence is overwhelming. But I was converted by the spritual evidence and I've never met anyone converted otherwise although I guess it may be possible.

In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.-2 Corinthians 13:1


“The Bible is one witness of Jesus Christ; the Book of Mormon is another. Why is this second witness so crucial? The following illustration may help: How many straight lines can you draw through a single point on a piece of paper? The answer is infinite. For a moment, suppose that single point represents the Bible and that hundreds of those straight lines drawn through that point represent different interpretations of the Bible and that each of those interpretations represents a different church.
“What happens, however, if on that piece of paper there is a second point representing the Book of Mormon? How many straight lines could you draw between these two reference points: the Bible and the Book of Mormon? Only one. Only one interpretation of Christ’s doctrines survives the testimony of these two witnesses.
“Again and again the Book of Mormon acts as a confirming, clarifying, unifying witness of the doctrines taught in the Bible.”
Elder Tad R. Callister of the Presidency of the Seventy, “The Book of Mormon—a Book from God,” Ensign, Nov. 2011, 75.
 
Christ on a crutch. I'm not interested in Mormon sh!t. The book of mormon doesn't compare to the NT in terms of historicity and applicable scholarship. Same as the Koran. Revelations can't be discussed reasonably. Its just some guy who says he talked to god or found tablets in the desert. Its a null status.


I agree with the sentiment of your post. There is no secular evidence in the Bible that can prove or disprove say the Resurrection of Jesus. Even if there was a way to guarantee the tomb was Christ's, it would be impossible to prove 100% the body was not stolen or if there were remains whether it was Jesus' remains.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints teaches that his life is a test of faith and we have a veil over our pre-mortal memories. Our spirits existed prior to being born on earth as literal sons or daughters of God. This is the reason imo so many people have an innate belief in God. Because we once knew our Heavenly Parents better than our earthly parents and the veil can be thin. I knew the Bible and the Book of Mormon were true as a very young child, because I pretty much instantly recognized God's voice in the scriptures. Deep down I just knew. I also felt the spirit. I think that is likely how most believers come to believe. Maybe they do not have a perfect knowledge, and may interpret the scriptures wrongly, but they innately recognize the voice of God in them.

So just the words of God alone is great evidence to those whose spirit recognize God's voice. The spirit or Holy Ghost confirms it to a soul.


The Restoration through the prophet Joseph Smith begins with the 14 yo Joseph, being confused on what church to join, having the faith to believe and follow through on this verse from the Bible:
If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. James 1:5

The result of his prayer, Heavenly Father and Christ visited him.

The Book of Mormon begins in the opening chapter with Lehi praying and receiving a revelation from God that allows His family to escape the destruction of Jerusalem by Babylon and ends in the last chapter with the following statement to all of us:

3 Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts.
4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truthof it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.
5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.


The above way is how everyone that I know have found the truth. Is there secular evidence that is strong evidence. Yes. To me the Book of Mormon is the strongest secular evidence in support of the Bible and the existence of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The Bible being historical is not strong evidence of the miraculous aspects of the Bible given the way we have received it. But the Book of Mormon on the other hand, given the way we received it, if it is a real ancient text, then that is extremely strong evidence in support of both the Bible being the word of God and Jesus being the Savior as the BoM testifies of both. And because the BoM claims to be historical it can be tested for a forgery utilizing scientific method to test it. That is what LDS scholars have been quietly doing and have amassed a mountain of evidence in support that it is an ancient text. To me the evidence is overwhelming. But I was converted by the spritual evidence and I've never met anyone converted otherwise although I guess it may be possible.

In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.-2 Corinthians 13:1


“The Bible is one witness of Jesus Christ; the Book of Mormon is another. Why is this second witness so crucial? The following illustration may help: How many straight lines can you draw through a single point on a piece of paper? The answer is infinite. For a moment, suppose that single point represents the Bible and that hundreds of those straight lines drawn through that point represent different interpretations of the Bible and that each of those interpretations represents a different church.
“What happens, however, if on that piece of paper there is a second point representing the Book of Mormon? How many straight lines could you draw between these two reference points: the Bible and the Book of Mormon? Only one. Only one interpretation of Christ’s doctrines survives the testimony of these two witnesses.
“Again and again the Book of Mormon acts as a confirming, clarifying, unifying witness of the doctrines taught in the Bible.”
Elder Tad R. Callister of the Presidency of the Seventy, “The Book of Mormon—a Book from God,” Ensign, Nov. 2011, 75.
 
What caused God?

The definition of God is that He is uncaused. If you found something that is caused, then you still have to go back and ask what caused that. God is the uncaused cause.
 
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