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Next Up: Change the Bible (interpretation)

Lutherf said:
The hatred expressed by the anti-religion folks are a lot like that. They tend to dig deep into the bible to find contradictions, improbabilities, and intolerance. But when they do that they miss the real, natural beauty of the story. In that they are no different than the religious zealot who gloms on to one passage and incessantly rattles that off as "the truth".

At its most basic the Bible asks that we embrace each other flaws and all, that we exercise humility in the face of God and that we accept the challenge of overcoming our base, selfish instincts.
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I don't know what bible you're reading, but it doesn't take digging deep at all. It takes reading the passages right after the ten commandments. Your false equivalence is cute, though. Someday, maybe you'll experience actual hatred, and you'll learn the difference between it and criticism.

Logicman said:
Anti-Christian bigots need to understand this.
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Again, losing unilateral dominance over society is nowhere near the same thing as suffering bigotry. If you had ever experienced any kind of discrimination, you would know this. It is really pathetic to see the victim complex of people who have never and will never be victimized in their lives.

WCH said:
When we got married we vowed not only to each other but also to God.
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And in this country, where we have religious freedom, you don't have to make any vows to any gods.

WCH said:
Show me where Christians have rewritten the Bible for their own purposes.
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The Council of Nicaea, the King James Version, the New American Bible, the New International Version... There are literally dozens of different, contradicting, versions of the bible, all written by Christians, that all claim to be the only true one. Mostly they were edited to promote the personal agenda of the Christians who edited them.

WCH said:
By insisting the religious ignore their beliefs and accept sin as normal behavior.
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We don't care what you accept. We'll certainly tell you you're wrong for not accepting, but we can't and won't force you to think anything. But we do care what the law says, and in this country, the law doesn't allow discrimination based on religious ideas.

WCH said:
Like I said, other than voting to assure SSM wouldn't be allowed in Texas, I have done nothing else.
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Psst, that's a pretty awful thing to do. That makes you, pretty unequivocally, a villain in this piece. Just like if Texas had put banning interracial marriage or enacting Jim Crow on a ballot and you voted for them.

Logicman said:
There is no freedom in sin.

“Intemperate men can never be free because their (sinful) passions give rise to their fetters (bindings).”

In short, they're slaves to sin.
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Fortunately, that has nothing to do whatsoever with American law and the American constitution.

Logicman said:
Everybody is going to answer to God one day, including unrepentant adulterers and homosexual sinners.
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Then let us worry about that and keep your nose out of our business.

Logicman said:
Like I said, I have the right to vote against gay marriage and support those political figures who believe likewise, and there's not a thing you can do to stop that. We may not always win (although sometimes we do), but we have that right.
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That's true. You do have the right to cast a vote against gay marriage. Fortunately, neither the federal government nor a state government has the right to prohibit gay marriage, so your voting doesn't really make a difference.
 
Carjosse said:
I thought Americans were all about freedom, apparently not.
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Have you been watching this administration?

Carjosse said:
In fact it is very easy to stop all the courts have to do is strike it down for the violation of personal freedom it is.
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And all we have to do is gather enough votes and we can pass a constitutional amendment outlawing illicit gay marriage.
 
Logicman said:
Everybody is going to answer to God one day, including unrepentant adulterers and homosexual sinners.
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Yet only homosexuality gets focused on here in America. Out of curiosity, would you support a ban on remarrying for anyone who gets a divorce other than for reasons of adultery?
 
Logicman said:
Have you been watching this administration?



And all we have to do is gather enough votes and we can pass a constitutional amendment outlawing illicit gay marriage.
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Then you are still violating the very idea of freedom, I'm sure constitutional amendments cannot contradict ones before it.
 
Carjosse said:
Guns have nothing to do with morals and affect others. Government has no place in deciding morals.
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The gun does not, in any way, affect others.

How does a law abiding citizen having a gun affect others?

What is a no beer sales on Sunday (or after 2AM) law but a moral decision?

What is a no public nudity law but a moral decision?

What is a no child labor law but a moral decision?

What is a no bigamy law but a moral decision?
 
Originally Posted by Logicman:
Everybody is going to answer to God one day, including unrepentant adulterers and homosexual sinners.
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Paschendale said:
Then let us worry about that and keep your nose out of our business.
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If your business is turning America into a modern day Sodom and Gomorrah then I make it my business to oppose you.

Paschendale said:
You do have the right to cast a vote against gay marriage. Fortunately, neither the federal government nor a state government has the right to prohibit gay marriage, so your voting doesn't really make a difference.
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That's your opinion. Texas is opposing it and has it in its constitution that the only recognized marriage in the state is between one man and one woman.
 
rathi said:
Yet only homosexuality gets focused on here in America. Out of curiosity, would you support a ban on remarrying for anyone who gets a divorce other than for reasons of adultery?
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First, tell me how are you going to prove who has committed adultery and who hasn't?
 
Carjosse said:
Then you are still violating the very idea of freedom, I'm sure constitutional amendments cannot contradict ones before it.
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Nope. You're trying to violate my law of freedom to vote as I wish.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
The gun does not, in any way, affect others.

How does a law abiding citizen having a gun affect others?

What is a no beer sales on Sunday (or after 2AM) law but a moral decision?

What is a no public nudity law but a moral decision?

What is a no child labor law but a moral decision?

What is a no bigamy law but a moral decision?
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It stops being a moral decision when it could bring harm to others, murder harms society and it just so happens to be immoral. That is the entire point of the gun otherwise there would be no need for it. It is like saying we have an army just for fun. I bet it sucks to buy booze in America not only can you not buy any on Sunday but they also all taste terrible. Bigamy is illegal because of well legal procedures and possible harm.
 
Carjosse said:
You have voted to deny freedom to same-sex couples that is forcing your morals on others. Americans seem to be okay with curtailing rights and freedoms as long as it agrees with their morals.
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This country was established based on God's laws. Without them we would have chaos and a breakdown of civilization. Unfortunately I see this happening everyday.
 
Logicman said:
Nope. You're trying to violate my law of freedom to vote as I wish.
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I guess we should have a referendum on murder on then. Personal freedom cannot be voted on.
 
WCH said:
This country was established based on God's laws. Without them we would have chaos and a breakdown of civilization. Unfortunately I see this happening everyday.
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What is Canada or France to you? Are we not countries or what is going on? The state must be secular and has no right to legislate on the morals of others, otherwise you are denying people their freedom.
 
Carjosse said:
I guess we should have a referendum on murder on then. Personal freedom cannot be voted on.
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Laws are passed every day that in one way or another effect personal freedom. Welcome to America.
 
Logicman said:
Laws are passed every day that in one way or another effect personal freedom. Welcome to America.
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Good thing I am not in America, the land of the not free and okay with it.
 
Logicman said:
First, tell me how are you going to prove who has committed adultery and who hasn't?
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The same way you prove anything else in divorce court? It historically was the only reason you could get divorced in many states and still happens today. Current law allows for many other reasons including no fault divorce, first signed into law in California by Reagan.

If one truly is consistent in demanding that legal marriage be based on scripture, there is no alternative but to ban second marriage barring the specific new testament exemptions.
 
Carjosse said:
Good thing I am not in America, the country where personal freedom does not exist and people don't seem to care.
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I'm glad you don't live in America either, then. We have enough Biblically-challenged liberals already.
 
Carjosse said:
It stops being a moral decision when it could bring harm to others, murder harms society and it just so happens to be immoral. That is the entire point of the gun otherwise there would be no need for it. It is like saying we have an army just for fun. I bet it sucks to buy booze in America not only can you not buy any on Sunday but they also all taste terrible. Bigamy is illegal because of well legal procedures and possible harm.
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Murder can be committed with a knife, baseball bat, chainsaw or hammer - but they are not controlled.

Do police officers carry guns to murder people?

Do we sell gasoline in to go containers to assist arsonists?

Preventing possible harm is simply an excuse to limit freedom, it is actual harm that should be dealt with.
 
Carjosse said:
It stops being a moral decision when it could bring harm to others, murder harms society and it just so happens to be immoral. That is the entire point of the gun otherwise there would be no need for it. It is like saying we have an army just for fun. I bet it sucks to buy booze in America not only can you not buy any on Sunday but they also all taste terrible. Bigamy is illegal because of well legal procedures and possible harm.
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You may be right about sunday liquor laws, but I'll brook no Canadian insolence with regards to American beer. We have the largest craft brew industry in the world and can lay claim to some of the finest fermented products on this planet.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Murder can be committed with a knife, baseball bat, chainsaw or hammer - but they are not controlled.

Do police officers carry guns to murder people?

Do we sell gasoline in to go containers to assist arsonists?

Preventing possible harm is simply an excuse to limit freedom, it is actual harm that should be dealt with.
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They are still legal but it is not a freedom or right.
 
Paschendale said:
I don't know what bible you're reading, but it doesn't take digging deep at all. It takes reading the passages right after the ten commandments. Your false equivalence is cute, though. Someday, maybe you'll experience actual hatred, and you'll learn the difference between it and criticism.
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8 Jesus went unto the mount of Olives.

2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.

3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,

4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.

5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
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We all choose our own way in life. We all choose how we deal with our inadequacies and with the inadequacies of others.
 
Logicman said:
If your business is turning America into a modern day Sodom and Gomorrah then I make it my business to oppose you.
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Let's get theological for a moment. Sodom was a city where mobs of men (because apparently the women weren't evil like the men) tried to bust down someone's door in order to rape travelers that came to town. This was apparently a normal occurrence. And it was a perfectly reasonable compromise in the mind of the supposedly good man in town to let this crowd rape his daughters instead. Literally no decent person who has ever lived, least of all secular Americans, would advocate that kind of moral system. Gommorah, meanwhile, never actually features in the text in any detail, so we don't even know what they did that was so bad.

Put your fears to rest, no secular person is ever advocating rape-mobs. Only really devout people seem to want to do that, usually based on some kind of twisted "sexual honor" ideas. So, when it comes to "turning America into a modern day Sodom and Gomorrah", that's no one's business. So, you can do the right thing and fight for the rights of your fellow citizens without fearing this outcome.

That's your opinion. Texas is opposing it and has it in its constitution that the only recognized marriage in the state is between one man and one woman.
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It's my well founded and informed legal opinion, as a legal professional who specializes in civil rights and constitutional law. Texas' constitutional amendment violates the federal constitution, just like California's did. Those amendments are illegal. Texas doesn't have the right to put that in its constitution.
 
Paschendale said:
Let's get theological for a moment. Sodom was a city where mobs of men (because apparently the women weren't evil like the men) tried to bust down someone's door in order to rape travelers that came to town. This was apparently a normal occurrence. And it was a perfectly reasonable compromise in the mind of the supposedly good man in town to let this crowd rape his daughters instead. Literally no decent person who has ever lived, least of all secular Americans, would advocate that kind of moral system. Gommorah, meanwhile, never actually features in the text in any detail, so we don't even know what they did that was so bad.

Put your fears to rest, no secular person is ever advocating rape-mobs. Only really devout people seem to want to do that, usually based on some kind of twisted "sexual honor" ideas. So, when it comes to "turning America into a modern day Sodom and Gomorrah", that's no one's business. So, you can do the right thing and fight for the rights of your fellow citizens without fearing this outcome.
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"The argument is partially true; the men of Sodom certainly were proposing rape. But for such an event to include "all the men from every part of the city of Sodom-both young and old," homosexuality must have been commonly practiced.

The second-century BC Testament of the Twelve Patriarchs labels the Sodomites 'sexually promiscuous' (Testimony of Benjamin 9:1) and refers to 'Sodom, which departed from the order of nature' (Testament of Nephtali 3:4). From the same time period, Jubilees specifies that the Sodomites were 'polluting themselves and fornicating in their flesh' (16:5, compare 20:5-6). Both Philo and Josephus plainly name same-sex relations as the characteristic view of Sodom." Responding to Pro-Gay Theology, Part III

Paschendale said:
It's my well founded and informed legal opinion, as a legal professional who specializes in civil rights and constitutional law. Texas' constitutional amendment violates the federal constitution, just like California's did. Those amendments are illegal. Texas doesn't have the right to put that in its constitution.
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I'm sure there's scores of constitutional lawyers in Texas and elsewhere who would disagree with you. And the only way you can make it work for you is to get a gaggle of spiritually-challenged liberals on SCOTUS to vote against Texas.
 
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