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Beauty and Churches

Proud to say that I was raised Baptist.

Proud also to say that I love this thread.

It is its own art in and of itself.
 
I think you have to keep it in the context of its time. Go back to the era when the church held powerful dominance over society, it also was tyrannical and corrupt. Then so was every other form of government, kings and their armies. Nowadays it has become more benign, apologizing for the acts of former church leaders just as governments have apologized for former atrocities committed as well. There is no "they". It is made of people, and a reflection of the attitudes people held at the time.

A lot of people judge past things using the perspective we have of right vs wrong as it is today, which is fine, but you must apply the same standard across the board. In doing so you'll see, the church has a certain mission, its primary objective. Now ask what the mission or objective of others is.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Dig a deeper hole and pile the fill on your head all you want. I know my WORLD HISTORY. I'm willing to extend props for the truth AND that means the good and the bad. You're pretending the bad that they themselves have apologized for and turned away from DIDN'T EVEN HAPPEN?

Tune in to reality for a while.

Enough said.
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Enough said? You haven't said anything. You make a claim with no evidence and expect full agreement? That's foolishness.
 
White+Temple_edited-1.jpg
 
Aunt Spiker said:
We've BECOME materialistic? Look at the old form of churches = materialistic.

The churches, instead of spending it many riches on the building itself, could have improved the lives of the people.
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They actually did. By and large, Cathedrals were the hearts of their communities. They collected alms for the poor, served as places of refuge in times of war or crisis, and they brought valuable trade revenue from travelers making pilgrimage.

It wasn't all bad. :shrug:
 
Reims Cathedral:

Reims-LowerW-Sept07-DE4344sAR800.jpg

Reims_Cathedrale_Notre_Dame_interior_002.JPG

reims-cathedral-window.jpg

Chartres nave:
chartres nave.jpg

We studied Cathedrals in an art history class I took, it was an elective but one that I really enjoyed, these Cathedrals are works of art. I would love to see them first hand some day.
 
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justabubba said:
i believe you have struck the crux of the matter
some of the faithful believe the use of limited resources - provided by those faithful - for other than good works is a poor stewardship of the church's financial assets
other faithful prefer those church assets to be spent acquiring fine things in G_d's name
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I know a lot of people who appreciate beauty especially when used to honor God and help them celebrate their love for God and will purchase beautiful works of art to decorate their home or donate to decorate a Church and I don't really see an issue with it especially since it's something that you see in the bible. I don't think the Church really spends it's money "acquiring fine things" in God's name, at least not these days, the vast majority goes into upkeep and and non-profit charities.
 
I love the Stave Churches, myself.

StaveChurchOfNorway.jpg


the carvings are especially cool.

Urnes_carvings.jpg

aal_doorway_w400.jpg
 
Monserrat said:
I know a lot of people who appreciate beauty especially when used to honor God and help them celebrate their love for God and will purchase beautiful works of art to decorate their home or donate to decorate a Church and I don't really see an issue with it especially since it's something that you see in the bible. I don't think the Church really spends it's money "acquiring fine things" in God's name, at least not these days, the vast majority goes into upkeep and and non-profit charities.
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depends on the church. when was the last time have you seen a salvation army palace. now, contrast that with the church of the latter day saints' temples
each religion seems to have a different barometer about how its limited resources should be spent
 
justabubba said:
depends on the church. when was the last time have you seen a salvation army palace. now, contrast that with the church of the latter day saints' temples
each religion seems to have a different barometer about how its limited resources should be spent
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Gotcha...I was just referring to Catholic Churches, I can't speak for all of the different denominations.

Mormons definitely have some pretty impressive temples of their own :shock:
 
Monserrat said:
Mormons definitely have some pretty impressive temples of their own :shock:
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I used to live just a few blocks down the hill from this one.

oakland-mormon-temple.jpg

For some reason, I can't seem to recall anybody ever using the word "subtle" to describe it.
 
Gardener said:
I used to live just a few blocks down the hill from this one.

View attachment 67159364

For some reason, I can't seem to recall anybody ever using the word "subtle" to describe it.
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Westwood, right?

EDIT: I see that it's Oakland, but it looks very much like Westwood.
 
640px-Koelner_Dom_bei_Nacht_1_RB.JPG

Kölner Dom. My mom slept there when she was a young child, at the end of the war.
 
That's beautiful. I don't think it's any coincidence that so much of what is lovely in all of man's creations has been inspired by God.

“Ascribe to the Lord the glory due his name. Bring an offering and come before him; worship the Lord in the splendor of his holiness” (1 Chronicles 16:29).
 
Gardener said:
I used to live just a few blocks down the hill from this one.

View attachment 67159364

For some reason, I can't seem to recall anybody ever using the word "subtle" to describe it.
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No and it's really impressive for such a baby Church. Less than 200 years into its existence and look what they have produced...
 
Monserrat said:
I know a lot of people who appreciate beauty especially when used to honor God and help them celebrate their love for God and will purchase beautiful works of art to decorate their home or donate to decorate a Church and I don't really see an issue with it especially since it's something that you see in the bible. I don't think the Church really spends it's money "acquiring fine things" in God's name, at least not these days, the vast majority goes into upkeep and and non-profit charities.
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The greatest works of art in the history of mankind, music, architecture, painting, were dedicated to the glory of God, and were inspired by God.

I used to feel like many on here about the Catholic Church (corruption, etc.) until I spent a good deal of time in Latin America where the Catholic Church is the only place where many can seek respite from the harshness, and corruption, of daily life. These Church workers, Priests, etc., do not live lives of luxury but instead live like their neighbors, supplying them with counsel, relief, and spiritual guidance.

Many feel they are not in need of the spirituality the Church provides, and perhaps that is right for them. However I have been around genuinely spiritual people and realize now that their wisdom, strength, and understanding is far greater than mine, and are in a place not too many of us ever get to become familiar with. Many of us remain as dust in the wind.

(As an aside, I once had a job picking grapes near the Reims Cathedral, though was too young and foolish to understand what I was seeing.)
 
Grant said:
(As an aside, I once had a job picking grapes near the Reims Cathedral, though was too young and foolish to understand what I was seeing.)
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Interesting how we change as we grow older. I remember a young man who was an atheist, outspoken, full of ideas and conflict. Wisdom and grace comes with a wider perspective. It takes time for this to happen to a person, there is no other way. If you live long enough and you're a bit lucky, you might learn something.
 
So much is learned through suffering--through disappointment and failure and tragedy.
 
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