The NIV on deacon leadership versus the KJV

1 Timothy 3:12 NIV said:

12 A deacon must be faithful to his wife and must manage his children and his household well.

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1 Timothy 3:12 KJV said:

12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

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They don't say the same thing but it's pretty clear both reference a married man.

Romans 16:1 KJV said:

I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:

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Romans 16:1 NIV said:

I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deacon[a] of the church in Cenchreae.

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My church has women deacons not based upon the 1 Timothy 3:12 reference but based upon the Romans 16:1 reference. My church was founded in 1896. The New testament of NIV was created in 1973. How did the NIV achieve such authority over church business when it is clearly a different document entirely?

Romans 16:1 ESV said:

1 I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a servant[a] of the church at Cenchreae,

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Published in 2001

Romans 16:1 ASV said:

1 I commend unto you Phoebe our sister, who is a servant of the church that is at Cenchreae:

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Published in 1900

Romans 16:1 The Message said:

1 Be sure to welcome our friend Phoebe in the way of the Master, with all the generous hospitality we Christians are famous for. I heartily endorse both her and her work. She’s a key representative of the church at Cenchrea.

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published in 1993

Romans 16:1 NCV said:

I recommend to you our sister Phoebe, who is a helper[a] in the church in Cenchrea.

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published in 1978

Romans 16:1 New World Translation said:

I am introducing* to you Phoe′be, our sister, who is a minister of the congregation that is in Cen′chre·ae,

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Published in 1961 (This is the Bible of the Jehovah Witness which some people claim mirror the NIV. Nope. Phoebe still isn't an officer of the church in the NWT.)

No other translation makes Phoebe into a church officer that I have been able to find. What social movement was going on in 1973 that would influence a deliberate corruption of the scripture? Hmmm. Oh yeah. Wasn't there a big woman's right movement going on at that time?

Anybody else care to sift through all 200+ English translations of Romans 16:1. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the NIV is the only one altering historical information for social modification purposes.

It's certainly not in the Douay-Rheims. However, I have found another translation that has it, the New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition. It's a ridiculous translation given the Latin (I use Latin because I don't know any Greek):

"commendo autem vobis Phoebem sororem nostram quae est in ministerio ecclesiae quae est Cenchris"

Douay-Rheims translates this flawlessly:

"And I commend to you Phebe, our sister, who is in the ministry of the church, that is in Cenchrae:"

And yikes what's up with The Message? It just adds whatever it wants?

The NIV is not a good translation ... There are so many theological assumptions in it, as well as interpoloations, it's not a good one.

That being said ... the Origional greek uses the Words "adelphen" which means sister, AND it uses "diakonon" which means ... deacon ... so she was a sister and a deakon.

"ten adelphen hemon ousan kai diakonon tes ecclesias" "The sister of us being also a deacon of the Church"

If the translation refers to deacon consistantly as "servant" or "minister" and does so in Romans 16:1 then fine ..... but if it uses deacon elsewhere but refers to Phebe as a minister or servent it's being dishonest. The greek text Calls her a sister and a deacon ... so she's a sister and a deacon. That's just the way it is.

As for the Message, it isn't a translation, it's a paraphrase ... not even that, it's an interpretation.

RGacky3 said:

The greek text Calls her a sister and a deacon ... so she's a sister and a deacon. That's just the way it is.

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Wow! So the NIV is the only correct English translation. That's scary. It didn't come out until 1973.

vasuderatorrent said:

Wow! So the NIV is the only correct English translation. That's scary. It didn't come out until 1973.

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It isn't the only correct English translation, the NRSV translates it as deacon as well ... but again, if an English translation consistantly translates deakonos as minister ... or servent, or whatever, and then uses those terms in Romans 16:1 then those are accurate, and some other older translations did that.

And no the NIV is NOT the only correct English translation, InFact I don't think it is a good English translation, but in Romans 16:1 it's correct ... the Word used is deakonos.

RGacky3 said:

the Origional greek uses the Words "adelphen" which means sister, AND it uses "diakonon"

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Is the word diakonon the same word used in both 1 Timothy 3:12 and Romans 16:1 ?

vasuderatorrent said:

Is the word diakonon the same word used in both 1 Timothy 3:12 and Romans 16:1 ?

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Yes, it's used in both of them.

vasuderatorrent said:

Is the word diakonon the same word used in both 1 Timothy 3:12 and Romans 16:1 ?

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It's also the same term Paul uses to describe his own ministry in 1 Cor 3:5; 2 Cor. 3:6, 6:4, 11:23; Eph 3:7; and Col 1:23, 25.

WHAT????

soot said:

It's also the same term Paul uses to describe his own ministry in 1 Cor 3:5; 2 Cor. 3:6, 6:4, 11:23; Eph 3:7; and Col 1:23, 25.

WHAT????

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Not necessarily .... some of those are things like "a deakonos to God" or deakonos is used in a descriptive way, or as a verb "minstering," as opposed to a title or position in the Church, just the same way "minister" can be a position, or it can be something you do, or something describing you in a non title way. the same way you can use teacher in an official title way and a non official descriptive way.

In Romans 10:1 she is a "deakonos" of the church, that's clearly a position in the church, it's being used as a title.