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If you could prove God, would you?

Let's say God was already here as Jesus. Even if half the stories are true that he healed the sick, fed the multitudes, turned water into wine, walked on water and raised the dead WHY did he let them kill him? Why didn't he just force them to love Him without them knowing it? Surely it wouldn't have been too difficult for someone who performed all those miracles.
God gave man free will ... and he made them in his own image i.e. as free agents ... Had he done what you propose he would be going against his own decree.
How can free will be considered 'free' if eternal consequences exist? That's akin to saying a hostage with a pistol to his head is a completely free man, except that the consequences with God are worse by a factor of eternity. That doesn't seem to very logically coherent, "I'm going to force you to believe in me, or else I'm going destroy you!" And why belief in him? Why would God care if someone accepted him as real or not? You are the ultimate Creator of the universe, and there are these puny animals who have been in existence for 50,000 years out of 13.8 billion years and you care what each and every single one of them thinks!? Including the 1.2 billion Indians (non-Christians)? From God's perspective, that just doesn't make sense.

But from a human perspective,

You see that your fellow man does stupid and terrible things. Wouldn't that be great if there was an all-good, all-present and all-powerful person? The opposite of what human currently are? Wait, you're telling me that such a person exists? That this person raised a dead child!? Well, that certainly would help put an end to those stupid and terrible things humans do. Especially if this godly fellow cared about what each and every person thought and did, and then meted out personal justice accordingly. From an all-powerful God's perspective, that doesn't make a lick of sense, but from mine, it does!
 
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How can free will be considered 'free' if eternal consequences exist? That's akin to saying a hostage with a pistol to his head is a completely free man, except that the consequences with God are worse by a factor of eternity. That doesn't seem to very logically coherent, "I'm going to force you to believe in me, or else I'm going destroy you!" And why belief in him? Why would God care if someone accepted him as real or not? You are the ultimate Creator of the universe, and there are these puny animals who have been in existence for 50,000 years out of 13.8 billion years and you care what each and every single one of them thinks!? Including the 1.2 billion Indians (non-Christians)? From God's perspective, that just doesn't make sense.

But from a human perspective,

You see that your fellow man does stupid and terrible things. Wouldn't that be great if there was an all-good, all-present and all-powerful person? The opposite of what human currently are? Wait, you're telling me that such a person exists? That this person raised a dead child!? Well, that certainly would help put an end to those stupid and terrible things humans do. Especially if this godly fellow cared about what each and every person thought and did, and then meted out personal justice accordingly. From an all-powerful God's perspective, that doesn't make a lick of sense, but from mine, it does!

I have no idea what you're talking about.
 
I have no idea what you're talking about.
The concept of free will or an omnipotent being's huge interest in each and every humans' belief system is not very rational, unless you view it from the perspective that humans created God.
 
I have no idea what you're talking about.
The concept of free will or an omnipotent being's huge interest in each and every humans' belief system is not very rational, unless you view it from the perspective that humans created God.
Or,

Explain why an omnipotent Creator is obsessive about squishing relatively miniscule individuals, and constructing this weird Catch 22 eternity punishment thing.
Explain why a human would believe in an omnipotent threat if was also promised to change his life for the better.

One's more plausible than the other.
 
The concept of free will or an omnipotent being's huge interest in each and every humans' belief system is not very rational, unless you view it from the perspective that humans created God.

Or,

Explain why an omnipotent Creator is obsessive about squishing relatively miniscule individuals, and constructing this weird Catch 22 eternity punishment thing.
Explain why a human would believe in an omnipotent threat if was also promised to change his life for the better.

One's more plausible than the other.

Maybe free will exists in order to create unique individuals instead of robots?

I don't believe an omnipotent Creator is obsessed with squishing miniscule individuals or eternal punishment. It's possible we're giving a life to try and appreciate it or not. That's up to every person regardless of what someone wrote in a bunch of old books.

I really don't know and neither do you.
 
God gave man free will ... and he made them in his own image i.e. as free agents ... Had he done what you propose he would be going against his own decree.

Is that "physical image" or "spiritual image"?

As far as free will is concerned. An awful lot of people seem to know when their will ends and god's will begins...as in like divine interventions, miracles, etc. They'll proudly define those differences if you ask...and some will...even when you don't ask.
 
Is that "physical image" or "spiritual image"?

As far as free will is concerned. An awful lot of people seem to know when their will ends and god's will begins...as in like divine interventions, miracles, etc. They'll proudly define those differences if you ask...and some will...even when you don't ask.

I'm waiting for the day that some quarterback, offensive back or wide receiver gets pasted, just short of the goal line, loses the game and then stops, looks up at the sky and holds up an index finger to God to say "you're number one". So far it only happens when they score and when they win.
 
I'm waiting for the day that some quarterback, offensive back or wide receiver gets pasted, just short of the goal line, loses the game and then stops, looks up at the sky and holds up an index finger to God to say "you're number one". So far it only happens when they score and when they win.

haha the Devil gets the credit for that one..
 
How many parts are in a steel ball? Where is the top or the bottom?

As many parts as there are atoms in it .... and even those have parts ....


I think we agree that after we leave our present form we will take live in a spiritual form. What will afterlife be like? Will there be race wars, will there be Christians fighting Muslims and Protestants arguing with Catholics. Will there be hatred for Jews and Buddhists? Will men and women be truly and totally equal?

I have no idea what it will be like.

How do we determine there is no other Empire State Building? How do we determine there is no other being?

Because I have Google earth ... :)

All is a comparison. How do you determine when you have or do not have all?

When there is nothing else to have then you have all .... it's not that difficult.

Is pure love a lie?

It isn't a proposition, so it can't be a lie .... or a true statement ... because it's not a statement ... It's a concept.

If you say "God" is a person and that person is a man then women are not God's gender. God made a choice to be a man? Why? Does "God" have a penis and balls? I think not. If "God" is pure love what can be greater?

Who said he's a person, I mean a being With a will and agency, that doesn't necessitate gender at all.

If it's pure love, then you'd have to explain what that means.

I haven't contradicted.

You said "God is All" and "God is love" those are contradictions.

Yes, I am saying God is love. Are you saying that "God" is not love?

No, he is in essence, but not ontologically.

How is "God" not love?

That isn't an answer to the question, what is the basis for Your statement that "God is love."
 
Is that "physical image" or "spiritual image"?

As far as free will is concerned. An awful lot of people seem to know when their will ends and god's will begins...as in like divine interventions, miracles, etc. They'll proudly define those differences if you ask...and some will...even when you don't ask.

spiritual image.

The will of God is described in the bible, if you do careful exegesis.
 
How can free will be considered 'free' if eternal consequences exist? That's akin to saying a hostage with a pistol to his head is a completely free man, except that the consequences with God are worse by a factor of eternity. That doesn't seem to very logically coherent, "I'm going to force you to believe in me, or else I'm going destroy you!" And why belief in him? Why would God care if someone accepted him as real or not? You are the ultimate Creator of the universe, and there are these puny animals who have been in existence for 50,000 years out of 13.8 billion years and you care what each and every single one of them thinks!? Including the 1.2 billion Indians (non-Christians)? From God's perspective, that just doesn't make sense.

But from a human perspective,

You see that your fellow man does stupid and terrible things. Wouldn't that be great if there was an all-good, all-present and all-powerful person? The opposite of what human currently are? Wait, you're telling me that such a person exists? That this person raised a dead child!? Well, that certainly would help put an end to those stupid and terrible things humans do. Especially if this godly fellow cared about what each and every person thought and did, and then meted out personal justice accordingly. From an all-powerful God's perspective, that doesn't make a lick of sense, but from mine, it does!

1. I don't believe in an eternal hell.
2. Belief in God's existance has nothing to do With his judgement, (Matthew 25:31-46)
3. The scriptures say that God will put an end to the stupid Things humans do.
 
This is scientifically unarguable proof. Obviously hypothetical. Would you? My answer? No.

I think the Biblical pattern is on a selective basis. God can easily do it if He wanted to but does not...to everyone. I think the reason for this is under the laws of His Kingdom, knowledge brings about greater accountability. "Father forgive them for they know not what they do." "Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly." etc. I think Jesus often taught in parables for a reason and that reason was to show compassion to people both then and now by confusing them knowing they will never embrace his offer of mercy, thus protecting them from the harshest judgement in eternity.
 
spiritual image.

The will of God is described in the bible, if you do careful exegesis.

I see. Well, good luck to you as you follow god's will. Oh, wait...is there anything in the bible about god changing its, his, her mind...and then feels obligated to share that with us humans?
 
I see. Well, good luck to you as you follow god's will. Oh, wait...is there anything in the bible about god changing its, his, her mind...and then feels obligated to share that with us humans?

Example?
 

No example needed. You're claiming that anything that anybody wants to know about god's will is in the bible. Does it say in the bible that god has the prerogative to change its, his, or her mind about any given situation that might arise? And that includes god's change of mind throughout the ages...can also be found in bible.

Your claim that god's will is at every human's finger tips...is quite a claim. Just knowing that might make you a super human of sorts. That's powerful stuff.
 
An omniscient God has created a world in which He is fully aware of who he will ultimately send to hell. And with absolute power, he does nothing as billions perish. I could potentially believe that Truth. However, the above contradicts the idea of a God of Love.
 
This is scientifically unarguable proof. Obviously hypothetical. Would you? My answer? No.

You mean, like outing Him, against His wishes? No, a gentleman does do that sort of thing.
 
No example needed. You're claiming that anything that anybody wants to know about god's will is in the bible. Does it say in the bible that god has the prerogative to change its, his, or her mind about any given situation that might arise? And that includes god's change of mind throughout the ages...can also be found in bible.

Your claim that god's will is at every human's finger tips...is quite a claim. Just knowing that might make you a super human of sorts. That's powerful stuff.

God has his will in scripture .... he (in scripture), has a purpose and a narrative for mankind .... as well as eternal principles.
 
God has his will in scripture .... he (in scripture), has a purpose and a narrative for mankind .... as well as eternal principles.

Your comment truly minimizes the power of god. Your saying that god never intervenes at will. Your saying that god would never deviate from the book written a couple or so thousands of years ago, despite knowing that the world will continually change as long as it exists. Your saying that everybody has the ability to understand and agree on the meaning of the bible the same way, in its entirety, thus allowing all people to simply follow the blueprint and all is good.

In other words...

Your basically saying that god would never change its, his, or her mind about how humankind functions and/or exists, as a whole, or individually, as long as all recognize, understand, and obey under the so-called will of god and god's eternal principles as described in the bible.

Alrighty then...
 
If it was Jehovah then yes. If it was Allah, Krishna, Zuez, the Flying Spaghetti Monster or some other god I would keep it a secret.

So if you knew your religion was wrong, you'd keep quiet and plod right along?
 
If it was Jehovah then yes. If it was Allah, Krishna, Zuez, the Flying Spaghetti Monster or some other god I would keep it a secret.

Jehovah and Allah is one and the same - the God of Abraham.

(As a particular avatar of Vishnu, Krishna does not belong in the group).
 
Yes. Isn't that what most people do?

Not most of the folk I know. If measurement proves something, usually that information is assimilated and adjusted to.
 
This is scientifically unarguable proof. Obviously hypothetical. Would you? My answer? No.

I don't know. If it would mean proving one God over another then I would really have to think about it since some people tend to get vicious over their beliefs. If I end up proving theirs wrong then that could get dangerous for me.
 
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