3 Nephi 28:24-29

3 Nephi 28:24-29 said:

24 An now I, Mormon, make an end of speacking concerning these things for a time. 25 Behold, I was about to write the names of those who were never to taste of death, but the Lord forbade; therefore I write them not, for they are hid from the world. 26 But behold, I have seen them, and they have ministered unto me. 27 And Behold they will be among the Gentiles, and the Gentiles shall know them not. 28 They will also be among the Jews, and the Jews shall know them not. 29 And it shall come to pass, when the Lord seeth fit in his wisdom that they shall minister unto all the scattered tribes of Israel, and unto all nations, kindreds, tongues and people, and shall bring out of them unto Jesus many souls, that their desire may be fulfilled, and also because of the convincing power of God which is in them.

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Am I understanding this correctly? It appears that there are people among us today that have been living since the days of Mormon. It seems these people are wandering the earth waiting for a special time when they will minister to all people and many souls will be brought to Jesus.

What is the significance of this verse? Is it supposed to give us hope? Is it supposed to add intrigue and mystery to the Mormon faith? Is it supposed to encourage us to be on our best behavior because these souls are among us? That does make sense because the Lord did forbid Mormon from giving away their names.

Anybody have any thoughts on this? It is very interesting indeed.

It is fascinating. I don't know what to make of it, but I have a couple of close friends who are Mormon, and they could probably shed some light on it. Next time I talk to one of them, I'll ask.

vasuderatorrent said:

Am I understanding this correctly? It appears that there are people among us today that have been living since the days of Mormon. It seems these people are wandering the earth waiting for a special time when they will minister to all people and many souls will be brought to Jesus.

What is the significance of this verse? Is it supposed to give us hope? Is it supposed to add intrigue and mystery to the Mormon faith? Is it supposed to encourage us to be on our best behavior because these souls are among us? That does make sense because the Lord did forbid Mormon from giving away their names.

Anybody have any thoughts on this? It is very interesting indeed.

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I'm a Mormon.

Yes, this means exactly what you think it means. See, also, verses 4-9 in the same chapter.

We also believe that “John the Beloved”, requested, and was granted, the same privilege. The Bible hints at this in John 21:21-23, but doesn't make it clear, and most Christians, as I understand it, don't believe it. But we have additional scripture which does make it clear; aside from being mentioned here in this chapter of 3 Nephi, it is also clarified in Doctrine & Covenants 7:1-4.

These four men—John the Beloved, and the three Nephites—did not die, but continue to live to this day, continuing to do the Lord's work in whatever ways become available to them, and will continue to do so until Jesus returns.

There's a whole body of fiction and apocryphal legend in Mormonism pertaining to these four men, and alleged sightings thereof; but very, very little that is accepted as provably authentic.


I feel compelled, at this point, to put in a plug for a wonderful Christmas play, called The Forgotten Carols. It's the work of a Mormon composer, musician and playwright, Micheal McLean. every year, around this time, he and his family, and a small crew of other cast members go on tour, putting on performances of this play. One of his sons, who plays multiple roles in this play, looks and sounds almost exactly like Donny Osmond. I don't know that they're related in any way to the Osmonds, but to see and hear this son, you have to wonder.

It's also available on DVD.

The DVD via Amazon
The official web site, if you want to try to get tickets to a live performance of this play

What makes this play at all relevant to this thread is that although not made explicit, it is strongly implied, by the time you get to the end of this play, that the crazy old man, “Uncle John”, who claims to be over two thousand years old, is John the Beloved.

To fully know the context why Jesus said what He did, we have to read more than those few lines. Here's John 21:15-23 says:

15 ¶So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.

16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, aFeed my sheep.

17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, aFeed my bsheep.

18 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be aold, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not.

19 This spake he, signifying by what adeath he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me.


20 Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee?

21 Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do?

22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he atarry till I come, what is that to thee? bfollow thou me.

23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not adie: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?

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I think this is a point being made to Peter. It has nothing to do at all about anyone being declared as not dying.

Peter, after admitting his love for Jesus, seemed to be questioning about the beloved disciple of Jesus. Peter was questioning what the beloved disciple would do.
Perhaps there was a tinge of jealousy with that question or not - but the tone of the question elicited this TONE of response from Jesus. It sounded like Jesus was not pleased with Peter's line of questioning.

If I will that he atarry till I come, what is that to thee?
What is that to you? - That sounds like Peter was being put in his place.
It's like gently saying, it's not your concern. Just follow Me.

The key word is, IF
The key phrase - If I will


Apparently, that was also misinterpreted by some disciples into meaning that the particular beloved disciple will not die.

Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die:


The next sentence though, corrected that misinterpretation. Also emphasized by the key words, "yet" and "but" as indication that this last line is explaining what was really said verbatim, thus aims to correct any mis-interpretations.

yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?


The last sentence from line 23 confirmed that what Jesus said had nothing to do with anyone not dying.

Here is the NIV version from John 21 for easier reading.


15 When they had finished eating, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon son of John, do you love me more than these?”

“Yes, Lord,” he said, “you know that I love you.”

Jesus said, “Feed my lambs.”

16 Again Jesus said, “Simon son of John, do you love me?”

He answered, “Yes, Lord, you know that I love you.”

Jesus said, “Take care of my sheep.”

17 The third time he said to him, “Simon son of John, do you love me?”

Peter was hurt because Jesus asked him the third time, “Do you love me?” He said, “Lord, you know all things; you know that I love you.”

Jesus said, “Feed my sheep. 18 Very truly I tell you, when you were younger you dressed yourself and went where you wanted; but when you are old you will stretch out your hands, and someone else will dress you and lead you where you do not want to go.” 19 Jesus said this to indicate the kind of death by which Peter would glorify God. Then he said to him, “Follow me!”

20 Peter turned and saw that the disciple whom Jesus loved was following them. (This was the one who had leaned back against Jesus at the supper and had said, “Lord, who is going to betray you?”) 21 When Peter saw him, he asked, “Lord, what about him?”

22 Jesus answered, “If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me.” 23 Because of this, the rumor spread among the believers that this disciple would not die. But Jesus did not say that he would not die; he only said, “If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you?”

24 This is the disciple who testifies to these things and who wrote them down. We know that his testimony is true.

vasuderatorrent said:

Am I understanding this correctly? It appears that there are people among us today that have been living since the days of Mormon.

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Just as a minor nitpick, here.

Mormon, who is quoted here, was not actually alive during the events that are recorded here. He lived around A.D. 400. As the Nephite society was collapsing for the last time, he gathered together all the records that his people had kept during the previous thousand years, compiled and edited them into a unified record, and on his death, he passed them on to his son, Moroni, who added a bit more to the record, before burying them in the ground.

In the course of this editing, Mormon added commentaries of his own here and there, hence this commentary of his in a record primarily written a few centuries before his time.

It is, of course, this man for whom the Book of Mormon is so named, and in turn, after whom this name has come to be used as a common informal nickname for the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints, and those of us who are members thereof.