To Christianity is Islam and Judaism Heathenish or Heretical?

tosca1 · Dec 3, 2013

RGacky3 said:
Elijah, Elisha, Peter, Paul, Jesus .... they all rose people from the dead. Of coarse with power from God ....

Where did it say that Peter was raised from the dead?

Galacians 1:1
1 Paul an apostle—sent neither by human commission nor from human authorities, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead—

Paul was referring to Jesus Christ - who was raised from the dead by God. Jesus came to Paul after His death, to show Paul that He is indeed the Son of God, and He has risen.

Paul couldn't have been referring to himself as the one who was raised from the dead since he didn't die yet when he made that comment. He died later as a martyr.

tosca1 · Dec 3, 2013

RGacky3 said:
Of coarse they're wrong, the Quran is wrong .... it's not an inspired book .... Allah means God ... it's the same God Jews worship, when Muslims say Allah it's like Jews sayind Hashem, it's not a name.

So are you saying that someone who worships a tree or the sun...and call them "God"....that they are actually referring to the God of Abraham?

RGacky3 · Dec 4, 2013

tosca1 said:
Where did it say that Peter was raised from the dead?

The question was who has the power to resurrect ... Peter did.

Paul was referring to Jesus Christ - who was raised from the dead by God. Jesus came to Paul after His death, to show Paul that He is indeed the Son of God, and He has risen.

Paul couldn't have been referring to himself as the one who was raised from the dead since he didn't die yet when he made that comment. He died later as a martyr.

Of coarse, I was respondingto logicmans claim that Jesus raised himself from the dead.

So are you saying that someone who worships a tree or the sun...and call them "God"....that they are actually referring to the God of Abraham?

.... No, if they worship the God of Isaac and Abraham, they are worshiping the God of Isaac and Abraham ... that wasn't a tree, or the sun.

RogueWarrior · Dec 4, 2013

RGacky3 said:
The question was who has the power to resurrect ... Peter did.

Of coarse, I was respondingto logicmans claim that Jesus raised himself from the dead.

.... No, if they worship the God of Isaac and Abraham, they are worshiping the God of Isaac and Abraham ... that wasn't a tree, or the sun.

It was a burning bush.:2razz:

tosca1 · Dec 4, 2013

RGacky3 said:
.... Allah means God ... it's the same God Jews worship, when Muslims say Allah it's like Jews sayind Hashem, it's not a name.

No. According to this source, Allah does not mean, "God."

According to Islam, Allāh is the Creator of the Universe. Allah does not mean 'God' but rather 'the God' and is thus one of the remnants of Islam's pagan origins.

Allah (definition) - WikiIslam

'God' in Arabic is translated 'ilah,' not 'Allah.'

As you can see, even though many English speaking Muslims falsely claim it states "there is no god but God", this is clearly not the case. Muslims view the name Allah as a proper noun, as opposed to a common noun descriptive applicable to any deity. Allah is not the generic word for 'god' in Arabic, but the name of Islam's deity.

Used in Context by Muhammad

"Allahu Akbar" has been used historically by Muslims as a battle cry during war.[1] This precedent was set by Prophet Muhammad when he attacked the Jews of Khaibar.

In the following sahih hadith, you can see the phrase has been translated correctly into English by Muslims.

Narrated Anas: The Prophet set out for Khaibar and reached it at night. He used not to attack if he reached the people at night, till the day broke. So, when the day dawned, the Jews came out with their bags and spades. When they saw the Prophet; they said, "Muhammad and his army!" The Prophet said, Allahu--Akbar! (Allah is Greater) and Khaibar is ruined, for whenever we approach a nation (i.e. enemy to fight) then it will be a miserable morning for those who have been warned."

Sahih Bukhari 4:52:195

One must also note that if the word "Allah" meant "God", why then would he be telling the Jews of Khaibar (who supposedly worship the same god) that Islam's Allah is greater?

Allahu Akbar - WikiIslam

Pagan Origins of Islam

Worship at the Ka’aba
Veneration of the Black-stone
Praying 5 Times Towards Mecca
Fasting on the 10th of Muharram
Tawaf between Safa and Marwa
Requirement of Ihram
Circumambulation 7 Times
Crescent Moon Symbol

Pagan Origins of Islam - WikiIslam

RGacky3 · Dec 5, 2013

tosca1 said:
No. According to this source, Allah does not mean, "God."

Allah (definition) - WikiIslam

Allahu Akbar - WikiIslam

Pagan Origins of Islam - WikiIslam

Allah is THE God in the same way when a christian or Jew says "God" they are refering to Yahweh ... or THE God.

As far as the Allah Akbar statement ... how is that an argument? First of all it means "God is Great" that's how it's used, it isn't a Reference to anyone else, they don't yell it AT People in the sense that they are saying "God is greater than ...." also christians used this sort of Language all the time in warfare .... it isn't an argument for distinctive diety.

tosca1 · Dec 5, 2013

RGacky3 said:
Allah is THE God in the same way when a christian or Jew says "God" they are refering to Yahweh ... or THE God.

As far as the Allah Akbar statement ... how is that an argument? First of all it means "God is Great" that's how it's used, it isn't a Reference to anyone else, they don't yell it AT People in the sense that they are saying "God is greater than ...." also christians used this sort of Language all the time in warfare .... it isn't an argument for distinctive diety.

here, I've taken these from the Islamic site: theonlyqu'ran.com

. Narrated Anas
The Prophet set out for Khaibar and reached it at night. He used not to attack if he reached the people at night, till the day broke. So, when the day dawned, the Jews came out with their bags and spades. When they saw the Prophet; they said, "Muhammad and his army!" The Prophet said, Allahu--Akbar! (Allah is Greater) and Khaibar is ruined, for whenever we approach a nation (i.e. enemy to fight) then it will be a miserable morning for those who have been warned."

Fighting for the Cause of Allah (Jihaad) - Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4 - Hadith

If they believe that they're worshipping the same God that the Jews call God - why would they be attacking the Jews, and be saying "Allah is GREATER?"

Greater than who? The God of the Jews!

This verse confirms that:

Narrated Abu Huraira
Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah, and whoever says, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' his life and property will be saved by me except for Islamic law, and his accounts will be with Allah, (either to punish him or to forgive him.)"

This verses is crystal clear. The very fact that they attacked the Jews for their (Jews) belief indicates they didn't believe they have the same God.

There's no denying it....you can't even say it's a mistake in translation because the verses are consistent with one another,
and more importantly, they are consistent with the actions in the narrative. The evidence is clear.

They don't believe that Allah is the same God as the God of Abraham.

tosca1 · Dec 5, 2013

RGacky3 said:
First of all it means "God is Great" that's how it's used,

Even if it's translated to mean "God is Great," it still doesn't make any difference. They're not referring to the God of Abraham.

195. Narrated Anas
The Prophet set out for Khaibar and reached it at night. He used not to attack if he reached the people at night, till the day broke. So, when the day dawned, the Jews came out with their bags and spades. When they saw the Prophet; they said, "Muhammad and his army!" The Prophet said, Allahu--Akbar! (Allah is Greater) and Khaibar is ruined, for whenever we approach a nation (i.e. enemy to fight) then it will be a miserable morning for those who have been warned."

196. Narrated Abu Huraira
Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' and whoever says, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' his life and property will be saved by me except for Islamic law, and his accounts will be with Allah, (either to punish him or to forgive him.)"

Fighting for the Cause of Allah (Jihaad) - Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4 - Hadith

Those two verses are consistent.
The actions - attacking the Jews - is also consistent with the verses.

They don't believe Allah and the God of Abraham are one and the same.

Disputatious71 · Dec 5, 2013

According to Islam the "people of the book" just misunderstood the word of Allah. They do not believe them either heathenish nor heretical. It would be more like someone looking down on a ignorant child hoping one day they will find the true path to Allah.

RGacky3 · Dec 5, 2013

tosca1 said:
here, I've taken these from the Islamic site: theonlyqu'ran.com

Fighting for the Cause of Allah (Jihaad) - Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4 - Hadith

If they believe that they're worshipping the same God that the Jews call God - why would they be attacking the Jews, and be saying "Allah is GREATER?"

Greater than who? The God of the Jews!

They yell that at EVERY Battle .... It isn't a comparison it's an exclamation, i.e. God is Great ... that's what it means.

This verse confirms that:

This verses is crystal clear. The very fact that they attacked the Jews for their (Jews) belief indicates they didn't believe they have the same God.

There's no denying it....you can't even say it's a mistake in translation because the verses are consistent with one another,
and more importantly, they are consistent with the actions in the narrative. The evidence is clear.

They don't believe that Allah is the same God as the God of Abraham.

They fought mostly pagans .... what did yo uwant them to say "they made them worship Allah ... except for the jews."

They believed (as christians do) that the Jews worship God incompletely, But Muslims worship Allah, who is the God that Abraham worshiped.

Surah 29
YUSUFALI: And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, except with means better (than mere disputation), unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong (and injury): but say, "We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; Our Allah and your Allah is one; and it is to Him we bow (in Islam)."

Christian Arabs and Jewish Arabs also Call God ... Allah btw.

Even if it's translated to mean "God is Great," it still doesn't make any difference. They're not referring to the God of Abraham.

It does matter if you claim that Allah Ahkbar is a comparison term ... when it isn't.

Fighting for the Cause of Allah (Jihaad) - Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4 - Hadith

Those two verses are consistent.
The actions - attacking the Jews - is also consistent with the verses.

They don't believe Allah and the God of Abraham are one and the same.

Again from the quran.

Surah 29
YUSUFALI: And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, except with means better (than mere disputation), unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong (and injury): but say, "We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; Our Allah and your Allah is one; and it is to Him we bow (in Islam)."

RogueWarrior · Dec 5, 2013

Wow look at the both of you arguing over which fantasy stories are true.

Are you going to tackle Terry Brooks versus JRR Tolkien next?

To Christianity is Islam and Judaism Heathenish or Heretical?

Heretical or Heathenistic

Both are Heathenistic

Both are Heterical

Judaism is Heathenistic, Islam is Heretical

Islam is Heathenistic, Judaism is Heterical

Flap-Jacks

tosca1

tosca1

RGacky3

RogueWarrior

tosca1

RGacky3

tosca1

tosca1

Disputatious71

RGacky3

RogueWarrior