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Nasa's Tetrads and John Hagee's Bood Moons

Since we're talking about possible signs, have you heard about the noises in the sky?
I've only heard about this event(s) today although they've been happening for several years now, and apparently all over the world.


Some say it sounded like trumpets. This guy below said it sounded like ancient trumpet - and he showed one and played it.


Check out the article given in the OP of this topic at the other section.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/off-topic-discussion/224221-strange-noises-sky.html

I've read about that too. Interesting. And trumpets and eschatology go hand in hand.

The heathens better hope it's not a warning of impending judgment or it could be crispy critter time for them.
 
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You can really hear those noises at time mark 4:25 in the video.

 
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The market's in the news today. It's down, and it seems serious. What with China's also down. They even have a tracker on the news channel - checking it every thirty minutes.

I'm keeping tab because of the prophecy talked earlier about the Shemitah. September is just around the corner.
 
Did we all die yesterday and get raptured?

Uh, the market has been down for the last month...
 
Did we all die yesterday and get raptured?

Uh, the market has been down for the last month...

It's actually a mistranslation. The original text says ruptured.
 
This kind of stuff always cracks me up.

Christians have expected a massive eschatological/destructive event since Jesus was crucified. When it doesn't happen, they just forget about it for awhile, then go back to predicting the next one.

Just to be clear, the underlying cognitive/psychological mechanism isn't restricted to Christians. It's that the theology includes an apocalyptic event, so they keep falling into the same trap over and over again.
 
This kind of stuff always cracks me up.

Christians have expected a massive eschatological/destructive event since Jesus was crucified. When it doesn't happen, they just forget about it for awhile, then go back to predicting the next one.

Just to be clear, the underlying cognitive/psychological mechanism isn't restricted to Christians. It's that the theology includes an apocalyptic event, so they keep falling into the same trap over and over again.

Not really.

You don't find this occurring in Catholic, Orthodox, or mainline protestant circles. It seems to be limited to small segments of the evangelical community. So, to generalize it as "Christians" when, in fact, you are referring to a tiny subset of Christians is disingenuous. It would be akin to saying "it always cracks me up how Americans claim not to be racist yet support David Duke" (because Americans, by and large, don't support David Duke, only a tiny subset of Americans do).
 
I think what Hagee was relating the Blood Moons with, was not about the rapture or the Second Coming. If I'm not mistaken, it has to do with some very significant event that's global and also pertaining to Israel.

And I don't think they have to happen exactly on that date - but somewhat close.
 
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Not really.

You don't find this occurring in Catholic, Orthodox, or mainline protestant circles.
You mean, we don't see it today in those communities. Predictions of imminent apocalyptic doom were a little more common in earlier historical times, and was typically a go-to explanation for a catastrophic event like the Black Death.

I will agree that not every single Christian expected to be Raptured last week. The larger question is, how many take it seriously? That seems to vary. E.g. the Millerites were very popular, in no small part due to the Rapturous predictions of its founders. The Jehovah's Witnesses repeatedly predicted specific dates for the end of the world, and its believers still assume the End is Near. The Left Behind series is quite popular, though this does not of course prove that all its readers assume the Rapture is due any minute now.

That said, I'm gonna stick with Pew's numbers. A 2010 poll showed that 41% believe Jesus will return to Earth by 2050. Evangelicals lead the way (58%) but Catholics are far from immune (31%). (Jesus Christ?s Return to Earth | Pew Research Center)

Perhaps international figures are different... and perhaps not.

Thus, my phrasing may be a bit broad, but hardly a major cause for objection to the basic principle -- especially since I was quite clear that the underlying cognitive error is not in any way unique to Christians.
 
You mean, we don't see it today in those communities. Predictions of imminent apocalyptic doom were a little more common in earlier historical times, and was typically a go-to explanation for a catastrophic event like the Black Death.

That's simply untrue.

Can you point to any encyclicals, papal bulls, papal addresses, historical documents, or anything at all that might support this claim?

You can't, because you have fabricated it. The fact is that the church did not react in such a way.

The major religious reactions to the black death took two forms. The first was blaming the Jews, something that Pope Clement wrote a Papal Bull to try to stop (calling the blaming of the Jews a lie from the devil, and calling on Christian churches to protect the Jews in their communities). The other was the rise of flagellant brotherhoods. These brotherhoods were not an outgrowth of the church, but were fanatic fringe movements. Contrary to your claim that they saw this as signs of the end of the world, they instead saw it as a punishment from God and taught that if they appeased God through flagellation, they could make it stop.

There simply isn't any evidence that there was ever widespread belief in any particular end of the world predictions tied to catastrophic events.

I will agree that not every single Christian expected to be Raptured last week.

Probably no one did. None of the predictions involved a rapture coinciding with the blood moon.

The larger question is, how many take it seriously?

From the look of it, hardly anyone.

That said, I'm gonna stick with Pew's numbers. A 2010 poll showed that 41% believe Jesus will return to Earth by 2050. Evangelicals lead the way (58%) but Catholics are far from immune (31%). (Jesus Christ?s Return to Earth | Pew Research Center)

That has nothing to do with your claim. Your claim was that Christians have been repeating a cycle of making predictions about the impending end of the world, then discarding those predictions when they don't come true and moving on to a new one.

That Jesus will return is obviously a teaching of Christianity. The fact that 51% of evangelicals and 31% Catholics think it will probably be within the next 40 years doesn't in any way imply that they believe in any of these silly predictions that fringe elements prop up. It doesn't in any way support your claim that they are involved in a cycle of failed predictions. It simply shows they think the end is probably sooner rather than later.

Thus, my phrasing may be a bit broad, but hardly a major cause for objection to the basic principle -- especially since I was quite clear that the underlying cognitive error is not in any way unique to Christians.

The basic premise was wrong. There is no evidence that Christianity has been in a cycle of failed predictions. There is evidence that there have always been fringe elements, primarily within the evangelical community, which do fall into those cycles. But there is no evidence that this is at all common within Christianity.

I could probably make the case that these fringe elements are primarily motivated by money. It's awfully suspicious that this always seems to come from the usual suspects at TBN. If we look at the sources for this blood moon thing, we can trace it back to a series of books, dvds, and other materials two specific people whose livelihood revolves around these sorts of predictions are trying to sell. But I don't have the interest to actually do the research to back that up. I'll just call that my suspicion.
 
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You mean, we don't see it today in those communities. Predictions of imminent apocalyptic doom were a little more common in earlier historical times, and was typically a go-to explanation for a catastrophic event like the Black Death.

I will agree that not every single Christian expected to be Raptured last week. The larger question is, how many take it seriously?


What is "seriously?" What do you mean exactly by that?



The Jehovah's Witnesses repeatedly predicted specific dates for the end of the world, and its believers still assume the End is Near.

And thus we know for a fact, it's false prophecy. No one can know the specific date for the Second Coming.



The Left Behind series is quite popular, though this does not of course prove that all its readers assume the Rapture is due any minute now.

So? It's a good premise for an apocalyptic movie. That the Second Coming would entail what's been prophesied in the Revelations, and is depicted in a movie with fictional characters - and is popular among believers - what's surprising about that?

The producers had a target audience for that movie - they know their market: Christians.
That would be like making a movie of the God Delusion by Dawkins - with atheists as their target market.

I don't get your point.



That said, I'm gonna stick with Pew's numbers. A 2010 poll showed that 41% believe Jesus will return to Earth by 2050. Evangelicals lead the way (58%) but Catholics are far from immune (31%). (Jesus Christ?s Return to Earth | Pew Research Center)

So? People love to predict. How many people - regardless of belief - had predicted that we'll set foot on Mars by 2050?
Where do we base that prediction? Advanced technology (that's accelerating).

Of course people predict on anything based on what they see, or experience, or know at the present time.
 
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Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
You mean, we don't see it today in those communities. Predictions of imminent apocalyptic doom were a little more common in earlier historical times, and was typically a go-to explanation for a catastrophic event like the Black Death.


Apocalyptic doom is not necessarily limited to the religious!

How many apocalyptic doom had been predicted in relation to the environment? Climate change?


USA Today wrote incredulously, “some people really panicked.” Camping’s ideas were not particularly popular in Catholic and other Christian circles (Mathew 24:36 states that no one can know the precise time Jesus will return, except for God) but they were ridiculed in the media as being representative as mainstream Christian thinking.

Yet environmental scientists cause panic with similar apocalyptic visions and these are taken far more seriously, despite their apparent outrageous nature. I call these eco-apocalyptic. I want to demonstrate the similarities between the visions, then try to explain the analogous patterns of thinking. Analyzing Western history and Christianity helps us understand why two seemingly different ideologies resemble each other.

A popular Rolling Stone headline reads, “Goodbye, Miami.” The byline declares: “By century’s end, rising sea levels will turn the nation’s urban fantasyland into an American Atlantis. But long before the city is completely underwater, chaos will begin.”


The Apocalyptic Nature of Environmentalism - Crisis Magazine




Everyday, some environmentalist or left-wing politician or celebrity, is prophesying that the world as we know it is about to end - IF we don't do what they want us to do. Their prophecy paint a very dire picture for our children and grandchildren, of course.

Here are samples of doom prophecies:








"REPENT! THE END IS NEAR!" That slogan takes on a whole new meaning.


How many earthquake movies were made about San Andreass fault? Mutant monsters due to toxic waste, creating havoc?
All these have one thing in common: they like to titilliate people's imagination and appeal to people's interest to these things.



Basically, religious and environmentalist doom prophecies have one common message to all: CHANGE OF LIFESTYLE.
That's what it means with that word, "REPENT."
 
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What is "seriously?" What do you mean exactly by that?
I think that's pretty clear. How many people expected the Rapture to happen last week?

How many expected it to happen today? After all, we had yet another prediction for utter destruction today, courtesy of the discredited remnants of Harold Camping's repeated failed predictions.

How many expect it to happen in their lifetimes?


And thus we know for a fact, it's false prophecy. No one can know the specific date for the Second Coming.
So it was OK for Hagee to make some specific predictions? He gets a pass, then?


So? It's a good premise for an apocalyptic movie. That the Second Coming would entail what's been prophesied in the Revelations, and is depicted in a movie with fictional characters - and is popular among believers - what's surprising about that?
Please read not just the section you quoted, but the following paragraph. I explicitly said that reading the books is not a viable indicator of the belief in imminent destruction of the world, but that Pew's numbers indicate a lot of people expect something to happen fairly soon.


People love to predict. How many people - regardless of belief - had predicted that we'll set foot on Mars by 2050?
I'm not disputing that "people love to predict." What I'm pointing out is that the apocalyptic mentality is part of the fabric of Christianity, baked in from the very start, and fueling numerous millenarian movements over the centuries. Hence, I find the myriad predictions of "We're Doomed!!!" -- and the subsequent rationalizations when those predictions don't come true -- to be mildly amusing.
 
Apocalyptic doom is not necessarily limited to the religious! How many apocalyptic doom had been predicted in relation to the environment? Climate change?
lol

I'm not surprised you don't understand climate change predictions. They don't say that the entire world will be ravaged by the Four Horsemen, and that billions of people will die in a massive single cataclysmic event of divine justice. The claim is that we're going to keep damaging the environment, and it's going to wipe out a lot of coastal land and areas prone to floods (where the majority of people live); that it's going to be harder to produce food and clean water, etc.

One difference between climate change scenarios and Rapture predictions? The former is based on scientific evidence, combined with models about what is likely to happen, and what those effects will be. The latter are based on ambiguous religious texts, which are vague enough on the details (like dates) and specific enough on other factors (the number of Horsemen of the Apocalypse) to fit a huge number of scenarios.

Of course, there are always people who get carried away with scientific-based predictions. That doesn't mean that it operates the same way as a supernatural prophesy. Not even close. Merely proposing that the two are somehow the same, based on superficial similarities, adds yet again to the amusement of such discussions.
 
lol

I'm not surprised you don't understand climate change predictions. They don't say that the entire world will be ravaged by the Four Horsemen, and that billions of people will die in a massive single cataclysmic event of divine justice. The claim is that we're going to keep damaging the environment, and it's going to wipe out a lot of coastal land and areas prone to floods (where the majority of people live); that it's going to be harder to produce food and clean water, etc.

One difference between climate change scenarios and Rapture predictions? The former is based on scientific evidence, combined with models about what is likely to happen, and what those effects will be. The latter are based on ambiguous religious texts, which are vague enough on the details (like dates) and specific enough on other factors (the number of Horsemen of the Apocalypse) to fit a huge number of scenarios.

Of course, there are always people who get carried away with scientific-based predictions. That doesn't mean that it operates the same way as a supernatural prophesy. Not even close. Merely proposing that the two are somehow the same, based on superficial similarities, adds yet again to the amusement of such discussions.

Ooooh. I must've struck a nerve, eh? :lol:

Never mind trying to differentiate it. It's still apocalyptic prediction!


Earth Day 2008: Predictions of Environmental Disaster Were Wrong
April 22, 2008

In 1970, environmentalists said there would soon be a new ice age and massive deaths from air pollution. The New York Times foresaw the extinction of the human race. Widely-quoted biologist Paul Ehrlich predicted worldwide starvation by 1975. Documented examples are below.

“...civilization will end within 15 or 30 years unless immediate action is taken against problems facing mankind,” biologist George Wald,
Harvard University, April 19, 1970.

By 1995, “...somewhere between 75 and 85 percent of all the species of living animals will be extinct.” Sen. Gaylord Nelson,
quoting Dr. S. Dillon Ripley, Look magazine, April 1970.

Because of increased dust, cloud cover and water vapor “...the planet will cool, the water vapor will fall and freeze, and a new Ice Age will be born,” Newsweek magazine, January 26, 1970.

The world will be “...eleven degrees colder in the year 2000. This is about twice what it would take to put us into an ice age,” Kenneth Watt, speaking at Swarthmore University, April 19, 1970.

“We are in an environmental crisis which threatens the survival of this nation, and of the world as a suitable place of human habitation,” biologist Barry Commoner, University of Washington, writing in the journalEnvironment, April 1970.

“Man must stop pollution and conserve his resources, not merely to enhance existence but to save the race from the intolerable deteriorations and possible extinction,” The New York Times editorial, April 20, 1970.

“By 1985, air pollution will have reduced the amount of sunlight reaching earth by one half...” Life magazine, January 1970.

“Population will inevitably and completely outstrip whatever small increases in food supplies we make,” Paul Ehrlich, interview in Mademoiselle magazine, April 1970.

“...air pollution...is certainly going to take hundreds of thousands of lives in the next few years alone,” Paul Ehrlich, interview in Mademoiselle magazine, April 1970.

Ehrlich also predicted that in 1973, 200,000 Americans would die from air pollution, and that by 1980 the life expectancy of Americans would be 42 years.

“It is already too late to avoid mass starvation,” Earth Day organizer Denis Hayes, The Living Wilderness, Spring 1970.

“By the year 2000...the entire world, with the exception of Western Europe, North America and Australia, will be in famine,” Peter Gunter, North Texas State University, The Living Wilderness, Spring 1970.


Earth Day 2008: Predictions of Environmental Disaster Were Wrong | Washington Policy Center


Religious or not......a prediction is a prediction is a prediction. We, humans, have the tendency to do that....even in small scales.
 
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