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Paul Harvey, "If I were the Devil."

Logicman said:
Nope. I've presented scriptures that you don't like.
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You haven't done anything of the sort. There is no doubt that Paul emphasizes his poverty and that anybody who makes money from the gospel message is a fraud. Frankly that's every televangelist you applaud.


2 Cor 6: We put no stumbling block in anyone's path, so that our ministry will not be discredited. .... 10 sorrowful, yet always rejoicing; poor, yet making many rich; having nothing, and yet possessing everything.
 
head of joaquin said:
Why are you denying the plain language of the NT about Paul? What is it with market evangelists and their idolizing of capitalism?
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Some idolize, many don't - they're just operating in a free market system. Your attempt to tar and feather every capitalist as idolizers of wealth is sophomoric.
 
head of joaquin said:
You haven't done anything of the sort. There is no doubt that Paul emphasizes his poverty and that anybody who makes money from the gospel message is a fraud. Frankly that's every televangelist you applaud.
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Wrong again!

1 Corinthians 9:14 - "So also the Lord directed those who proclaim the gospel to get their living from the gospel."

Sort of blows your little theory right out of the water, doesn't it? LOL!
 
Logicman said:
Some idolize, many don't - they're just operating in a free market system. Your attempt to tar and feather every capitalist as idolizers of wealth is sophomoric.
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There is no excuse for preachers to become millionaires. None. Zero. Your defense of preachers who peddle the gospel like an accessory at a boutique in a mall is noted, however.
 
Logicman said:
Wrong again!

1 Corinthians 9:14 - "So also the Lord directed those who proclaim the gospel to get their living from the gospel."

Sort of blows your little theory right out of the water, doesn't it? LOL!
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Making a living isn't the same as becoming a millionaire. If you can't see the difference, then I feel sorry for you. Paul denounces those who get rich on the church.

I'd note that Paul flat out refused to take any money from anybody for teaching the gospel. He makes a point of it.
 
Logicman said:
I think the Devil has done real well blinding the stiff-necked liberals to the true Gospel of Jesus Christ, and his resurrection and salvation.
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Thank you and of course you are right on. Some would say this world is going to hell in a hand basket.
 
head of joaquin said:
I think the that televangelists and other rightwing Christians are doing the devil's work -- could anything turn more people off to Christianity than these smug, sanctimonious, unctuous hypocrites?
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and these days thank God they have a very small following......Swaggart took care of that. Don't paint the whole Christian faith by a few.
 
Ben K. said:
This has been debunked (on this site before as well if I recall).

This is not from 1965, whomever made this video and posted it on Youtube is breeching the 9th commandment to ironically further their religious cause.

Harvey did have a "If I were the Devil" essay in 1965, but it's quite different from this one. Every malaise he pointed to was contemporary with 1965 social ills, nothing prophetic at all. This video trying to pass itself off as Paul Harvey is based on an updated version of the essay from the 90s, which again was nothing prophetic for the times.

The info is below.

snopes.com: Paul Harvey 'If I Were the Devil'
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That is odd because I was a big Paul Harvey fan in the sixties and heard him say this on his newscast several times...I think Snopes proves again they lean left since they were sold.
 
I can see why all the lefties are poo pooing Mr Harvey's speech....It scares them to death to know that Paul Harvey (may he RIP) was right on.
 
Navy Pride said:
That is odd because I was a big Paul Harvey fan in the sixties and heard him say this on his newscast several times...I think Snopes proves again they lean left since they were sold.
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Snopes have sources. You have your memory. I know which to believe.
 
Ben K. said:
Snopes have sources. You have your memory. I know which to believe.
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I have heard it too. Even his son played it on the Best of Paul Harvey. I don't know what this says about snopes as a fact checker, but I, myself have no doubt.
 
head of joaquin said:
There is no excuse for preachers to become millionaires. None. Zero. Your defense of preachers who peddle the gospel like an accessory at a boutique in a mall is noted, however.
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Whose talking about becoming millionaires? Not me.

1 Corinthians 9:14 - "So also the Lord directed those who proclaim the gospel to get their living from the gospel."
 
head of joaquin said:
Making a living isn't the same as becoming a millionaire. If you can't see the difference, then I feel sorry for you. Paul denounces those who get rich on the church.

I'd note that Paul flat out refused to take any money from anybody for teaching the gospel. He makes a point of it.
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How are full-time pastors supposed to pay their bills? You going to send them money?
 
Logicman said:
Whose talking about becoming millionaires? Not me.

1 Corinthians 9:14 - "So also the Lord directed those who proclaim the gospel to get their living from the gospel."
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The televangelists are talking about it either; they're just making millions.
 
Logicman said:
How are full-time pastors supposed to pay their bills? You going to send them money?
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I know it hard to believe but a lot of churches don't have fulltime pastors, but volunteers, though that is the exception not the rule.

In any case, why are you arguing with me -- your beef is with Paul.
 
Logicman said:
Dry up with your self-serving 'dishonest' tripe. The translation was NLT (New Living Translation).
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Why be so reluctant to use an old translation that isn't specifically edited to serve a right wing American political agenda? If you're using anything newer than King James, you're probably cherry picking and being dishonest. You should go as far back as possible, not rely on something new. Isn't immutability and the universality and unchanging nature of god's message a big element?
 
Perotista said:
I have heard it too. Even his son played it on the Best of Paul Harvey. I don't know what this says about snopes as a fact checker, but I, myself have no doubt.
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You do know that snopes was bought by a left wing think tank right?
 
Paschendale said:
Why be so reluctant to use an old translation that isn't specifically edited to serve a right wing American political agenda? If you're using anything newer than King James, you're probably cherry picking and being dishonest. You should go as far back as possible, not rely on something new. Isn't immutability and the universality and unchanging nature of god's message a big element?
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What do you know about translations? You ever studied them?
 
Navy Pride said:
I can see why all the lefties are poo pooing Mr Harvey's speech....It scares them to death to know that Paul Harvey (may he RIP) was right on.
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I'm not poo pooing it. I'm calling it a hot mess of conservative psycho-nostalgia.
 
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Navy Pride said:
You do know that snopes was bought by a left wing think tank right?
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This is so wonderfully ironic. You have actually repeated another rightwing urban myth which has not only been discredited, but discredited by snopes itself (and everybody else)!

Perfect.

Snopes is run by the same couple who founded it 15 years ago. One of them is Canadian and can't even vote in US elections. Jesus, man.


snopes.com: About the people behind snopes.com

http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/internet/a/snopes_exposed.htm
 
Ugh, politics and religion, the worst combo.

What I find frustrating about these debates and their ideologues is that people seem so sure that they have identified the evils of the world. I think they are gravely overconfident. Too many people make the incorrect assumption that evil fits into a nice little identifiable box, with obvious flaws that do-gooders can take advantage of and defeat. Do us all a favor and stop watching so much hollywood, where the villains are spoonfed to the audience? Real life doesn't work that way.

The reality is that evil is insidious, clever, and changes its form constantly. I think evil forces have done such a number on the United States that the activism has turned good people against other good people, thinking they are the enemy.

The #1 thing that Christians like Harvey need to guard against is righteousness. If you really believe that evil incarnate exists in this world then that requires vigilance, humility, and humbleness... otherwise it will play you like an instrument and use all of your psychological vices to turn you against your allies.
 
Paschendale said:
Why be so reluctant to use an old translation that isn't specifically edited to serve a right wing American political agenda? If you're using anything newer than King James, you're probably cherry picking and being dishonest. You should go as far back as possible, not rely on something new. Isn't immutability and the universality and unchanging nature of god's message a big element?
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No you should'nt, because the King James only used one manuscript line, the newer translations are much more accurate using a much wider range of manuscripts and with much better knowledge of koine greek.

The King James isn't that great of a translation. Scholars tend to use The NRSV, the ESV, or the NASV.

But the New Living Translation trick that Logicman was trying to pull off was blatent disonesty, the rendering of that text was not a translation it was an interpretation ... But to be honest I don't think logicman was doing it on purpose, he probably had no idea what he was posting since he just googles and pastes links or copies and pastes text without reading or understanding or defending what I posts.
 
Logicman said:
Wrong again!

1 Corinthians 9:14 - "So also the Lord directed those who proclaim the gospel to get their living from the gospel."

Sort of blows your little theory right out of the water, doesn't it? LOL!
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Get their living means EXACTLY that, i.e. what is needed to live (that's what the greek in that text actually says), and it was something EVERYONE had a right to.
 
RGacky3 said:
Get their living means EXACTLY that, i.e. what is needed to live (that's what the greek in that text actually says), and it was something EVERYONE had a right to.
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God called Paul to the ministry, specifically to take and preach the gospel to the Gentiles; Paul had a right, just as a soldier, a vineyard owner, or a shepherd (vs 7) has a right to be compensated for the services they perform, and that from those who benefit from such services. The soldier has a right to be paid by his commander, the vineyard owner to reap of the produce of the vine, and the shepherd of the milk of the flock.

Paul had a right to expect those to whom he preached the gospel to pay him for his preaching. NOWHERE; repeat NOWHERE does the Bible say everyone has a right to this. Indeed, the expectation was that EVERYONE who was able to provide for themselves... provide for themselves and thus not be a burden to the church. Paul went so far in this admonition to fend for himself as well - to work over and above his work of the ministry - to do double duty as it were so he wouldn't be a burden to the church in any way.

It is a warped interpretation of Scripture, not to mention Christian love and charity to assert we all have some sort of an innate right to each other's produce.
 
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