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What is a Christian?

davidtaylorjr said:
What do you think Christ taught? The will of God.
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So you're glossing now and reading into the text your interpretation of what it means. Why didn't you just say so instead of pretending it was in the text?

And no, Jesus didn't teach the "will of God". He taught a lot of things, including how to cure sick people with spit. So a genuine dispute now exist as to your interpretation. See? That's why oversimplifications like the one you just indulged in don't get us anywhere. The gospel raise many questions about what it means to be a Christian, and that takes at the very least the courage to realize that the gospel raises many questions about what it means to be a Christian. No easy answers.

And here's a concept: the gospel isn't about Jesus teachings at all, but God's love for us, as expressed through his willingness to allow his very own son to die in order to prove the depth of that love. Hence John 3:16. Nothing about teaching there.
 
head of joaquin said:
So you're glossing now and reading into the text your interpretation of what it means. Why didn't you just say so instead of pretending it was in the text?

And no, Jesus didn't teach the "will of God". He taught a lot of things, including how to cure sick people with spit. So a genuine dispute now exist as to your interpretation. See? That's why oversimplifications like the one you just indulged in don't get us anywhere. The gospel raise many questions about what it means to be a Christian, and that takes at the very least the courage to realize that the gospel raises many questions about what it means to be a Christian. No easy answers.
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Actually Jesus did teach the will of God, and actually he did not teach how to heal someone with spit, that was a miracle HE performed.
 
Medusa said:
these are not enough to be a good christian
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The best Christian I ever knew was an Orthodox Jewish boy I roomed with in College

1) he was kind to everyone

2) he treated everyone with respect and accepted them for how they were

3) he always went out of his way to help people whether they helped him before or after

or not at all.
 
davidtaylorjr said:
Actually Jesus did teach the will of God, and actually he did not teach how to heal someone with spit, that was a miracle HE performed.
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Yeah, that's your opinion after interjecting it into the text. But the text doesn't say that here, or anywhere else. But the text does relate how he cured a sick man with spit. You want to reduce the texts to your maxims when you want to, but you don't like it when others reduce the text to their maxims. Best not to reduce the text at all.

Hence the reason simplistic claims about what it means to be a Christian aren't taken seriously by mature Christians who engage the gospel seriously. It isn't the Cliff's Notes to salvation.
 
head of joaquin said:
Yeah, that's your opinion after interjecting it into the text. But the text doesn't say that here, or anywhere else. But the text does relate how he cured a sick man with spit.

Hence the reason simplistic claims about what it means to be a Christian aren't taken seriously by mature Christians who engage the gospel seriously. It isn't the Cliff's Notes to salvation.
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You are claiming Christ didn't teach the will of God? I find that odd.....
 
davidtaylorjr said:
You are claiming Christ didn't teach the will of God? I find that odd.....
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I don't even know what you mean by that, and I doubt you do. It's more like a slogan than a thoughtful approach to the gospel.

The gospel is a story, a narrative, about God's love (not his will). Paul says so. John says so. I'm not quite sure why you're focusing on God's will rather than his love, something that Paul says is the ONLY thing that counts.
 
TurtleDude said:
The best Christian I ever knew was an Orthodox Jewish boy I roomed with in College

1) he was kind to everyone

2) he treated everyone with respect and accepted them for how they were

3) he always went out of his way to help people whether they helped him before or after

or not at all.
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if all religious people were like him ,there would be no war l think
 
mak2 said:
I beleive to be a Christian you need to beleive in:

1. The virgin birth.

2. The Crucifiction.

3. The resurrection.

and accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Saviour. Is there more?
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Typically, one would also expect to see some "fruit".... as in "every good tree bringeth forth good fruit".... that is, some evidence of a changed heart and an new path in someone's behavior and attitudes.

I believe that is an evidence rather than prerequisite.... and there are those who do good works for false reasons as well, seeking the approval of men rather than of God.
 
Medusa said:
if all religious people were like him ,there would be no war l think
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true enough. in 9 months I never heard him say a bad thing about anyone. and that included some real assholes we both knew
 
head of joaquin said:
I don't even know what you mean by that, and I doubt you do. It's more like a slogan than a thoughtful approach to the gospel.

The gospel is a story, a narrative, about God's love (not his will). Paul says so. John says so. I'm not quite sure why you're focusing on God's will rather than his love, something that Paul says is the ONLY thing that counts.
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You act like God's will and God's love can be separated....
 
TurtleDude said:
true enough. in 9 months I never heard him say a bad thing about anyone. and that included some real assholes we both knew
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can you believe my grandmother was like him ?

there are some angels in this universe
 
Medusa said:
can you believe my grandmother was like him ?

there are some angels in this universe
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sure I can and I don't have any way to dispute your claim anyway

I doubt she wore a Yarmulke and a beard though!!
 
davidtaylorjr said:
You act like God's will and God's love can be separated....
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I don't know since "God's will" is ambiguous and frankly rather mystical, so I'm not even sure what you're talking about. Whatever it is, it doesn't seem to sum up the gospels, which have a lot more going on than a few references to God's will. Indeed, what seems to be going on is that a man, who calls himself the Son of God, is killed for rejecting the Law and the ceremonial views of it, as well as failing to bough to Roman authority, all while preaching about the need to love other people, and that then he is resurrected (in some mystical not naturalistic sense), and then the "kingdom of God" (which is within us) is preached by his followers as way to love others, become "new creations" and usher in peace on Earth. That's the story. The meaning is then discussed in the epistles in a desultory manner covering lots of situations and issues. And now two millennia later, we have this gospel and the early interpretation, and we are engaging them.

Somehow this doesn't reduce to "teaching God's will" to me. But something much more authentic and existential and not doctrinal.
 
Christian = Follower of the Annointed one (read Jesus THE CHRIST).

Compassion for ALL PEOPLE NO MATTER WHO
Charity TOWARDS ALL NO MATTER WHO
Total rejection of Killing NO MATTER WHY
Absolute LOVE TOWARDS ALL
Belief in the 12 Commandments and complete compliance to same
Belief in Jesus as the physical embodiment of God
Understanding that GOD brought about the death of JESUS which resulted in the forgiveness of sins
(the JEWS were simply an instrument not the cause)
Belief in the salvation of the soul based on the teachings of JESUS and his WORD
Since the essential message of "Christianity" is LOVE a belief that the needs of others especially those in need EXCEEDS your own.

Fortunately I learned long ago that I cannot do this and have NEVER considered myself a Christian even when I was Roman Catholic.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
A Christian follows the teachings of Jesus or at least tries too. Lots of people claim to be Christians but "ye shall know them by their fruit". Most "Christians" are frauds.
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l see many christians dont follow christ

l see many believers dont follow their prophets

because belief in god should be a personal case

not a tool to justify every crime commited in the name of god
 
head of joaquin said:
Accept the gospel message that God's love for us is so deep it can transform us into loving persons (if that's what we want to be). And this is expressed in the story that God was willing to let his own son be murdered to prove it.

Nothing else. Thinking right thoughts about God's essence won't get us anywhere since God is transcendent and anything we think about his status is wrong.
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Are you a Christian?
 
head of joaquin said:
Worse, I'm a Lutheran. What are you?
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I was raised a Lutheran, but now I'm not sure what denomination I am. I would probably choose Catholic at this point, but I usually just attend whatever church is closest to where I'm currently living.

Luther's anti-semitic views put me off of Lutheranism a bit, however the Lutheran pastor I had while growing up was the most inspiring Christian figure of my childhood (aside from Jesus Himself of course).

I didn't think you were religious. Goes to show I guess.
 
mak2 said:
I beleive to be a Christian you need to beleive in:

1. The virgin birth.

2. The Crucifiction.

3. The resurrection.

and accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Saviour. Is there more?
Click to expand...

I quit trying to be a Christian long ago. There are too many definitions. I have even read the Bible twice. I have come to the conclusion that it's too overwhelming to be a Christian. I have found an easier religion known as Pastafarianism. There are no requirements to be a Pastafarian. You just simply proclaim that you are a Pastafarian and then shazam, you're a Pastafarian.

To be serious and get back to the spirit of the opening post. I heard someone say that the early Christians didn't call themselves Christians. It was something that others called them. That makes me think I might be on the right track by abandoning all efforts to be a Christian. It's really more of an honor when someone else calls you a Christian.

vasuderatorrent
 
I would have to say that heaven, hell, damnation, forgiveness, salvation and all that other stuff is God's problem. Once I realized I didn't have to worry about those things it took quite a load off of my mind.

vasuderatorrent
 
A Christian is a Christian as defined by the Bible. No one knows who is a Christian for sure, there is no way to confirm it! Only God knows for sure aside from the Individual because no one knows the heart of Man except God.

A Christian could be a total fraud and no one but God and the Individual would ever know.

By their "Fruits" ye shall know them.
 
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